Bride Price among Pashtuns, is not what it is assumed

[Samandri]

Some people assume that so called "bride price" , the word used in English books and literature about Pashtuns must be "selling" of girl to any Tom and dik. Thats not the case. Its nature is like that of Haq-i-Mehr of Islam. Even elite and wealthy families of Pashtuns have so called Bride price and its in crores worth of Jewellary. There types of customs are observed in Pashtun society ;




In my region (Lakki Marwat) , the second custom is observed in which particular amount of 'zar' /gold is taken from groom family, and the bride keeps it with herself as social security. This gold is sold by her in extreme conditions. So its nothing more than additional haq-i-mahar. As wife retains the gold or the money parents receive from groom is for expenditure on marriage or dowery for bride is demanded from groom family (opposite of what happens in Indic world), so its not selling.

I dont know about marriage customs of Afghanistan but i assume it will be similar.

[salman47]

I think it is called 'Walwar/ولور'. I remember hearing my Uncle's Walwar(I was about 15 at that time), it sounded too much to me(at that moment I thought it is impossible for me to marry lol).

[Traveller]

Some people assume that so called "bride price" , the word used in English books and literature about Pashtuns must be "selling" of girl to any Tom and dik. Thats not the case. Its nature is like that of Haq-i-Mehr of Islam. Even elite and wealthy families of Pashtuns have so called Bride price and its in crores worth of Jewellary. There types of customs are observed in Pashtun society ;




In my region (Lakki Marwat) , the second custom is observed in which particular amount of 'zar' /gold is taken from groom family, and the bride keeps it with herself as social security. This gold is sold by her in extreme conditions. So its nothing more than additional haq-i-mahar. As wife retains the gold or the money parents receive from groom is for expenditure on marriage or dowery for bride is demanded from groom family (opposite of what happens in Indic world), so its not selling.

I dont know about marriage customs of Afghanistan but i assume it will be similar.

Isn't the third practice(jahez) becoming common due to desification?

[khushal]

I had a debate about this with Iblis aka revolutionthroughreason or scimitar but he didnt want to understand the concept.

In Jaji, we do the first which we call "denyo" and the second which we call "zar" in addition to the brides family negotiates clothing as well.

[Samandri]

Isn't the third practice(jahez) becoming common due to desification?

You have misunderstood. Bride's family demands from groom family to buy dowry. In Punjab its opposite, groom family demand from bride's family for jehaiz. The Indic Jehaiz is also creeping into urban Pakhtunkhwa, due to families watching Urdu Tv serials.

[Traveller]

You have misunderstood. Bride's family demands from groom family to buy dowry. In Punjab its opposite, groom family demand from bride's family for jehaiz. The Indic Jehaiz is also creeping into urban Pakhtunkhwa, due to families watching Urdu Tv serials.

I don't think it's just urban areas. I was in Pakistan 1-2 months ago and our driver(who is a Pashtun from Swabi) was telling us how he had to give jahez for his daughter's wedding. I was surprised as I though this practice didn't exist among Pashtuns but was told that in recent years Pashtuns have begun to practice this. Our driver is a poor man who lives in a village and I wouldn't classify him as "urban."

[maneatinglizard]

Isn't the third practice(jahez) becoming common due to desification?

How bad is desification in Pakistan? Is it still reversible at this point?

Afghanistan is too much of a mess right now for the idea to be given any serious consideration, but in the event of a stable Afghan government within the next decade or two, do you think uniting KPK/FATA with the rest of Pashtun lands in Afghanistan could be something that Pakistani Pashtuns would want?

[salman47]

How bad is desification in Pakistan? Is it still reversible at this point?

Afghanistan is too much of a mess right now for the idea to be given any serious consideration, but in the event of a stable Afghan government within the next decade or two, do you think uniting KPK/FATA with the rest of Pashtun lands in Afghanistan could be something that Pakistani Pashtuns would want?

When Afghanistan was stable(Karzai Era), my family thought of moving to Afghanistan, but then everything flipped upside down unfortunately.
So I can say that with a 'Stable Afghanistan' it is possible and maybe likely for 'Loy Afghanistan' to form!

[Charsi Malang]

How bad is desification in Pakistan? Is it still reversible at this point?

Afghanistan is too much of a mess right now for the idea to be given any serious consideration, but in the event of a stable Afghan government within the next decade or two, do you think uniting KPK/FATA with the rest of Pashtun lands in Afghanistan could be something that Pakistani Pashtuns would want?

As far as I have seen, Pashtuns in Pakistan have no problem at all with Desification at all and the younger generation don't even realize how Desi they have become. It's very different now to what it was like just a mere 20 years ago. They are actually very proud of their Urdu language for some reason. Sadly to me it appears that Pashtuns in Pakistan are a very mild form of Pashtun. The ones that seem to be more Pashtun are branded backwards or "badmashaan".

[Traveller]

How bad is desification in Pakistan? Is it still reversible at this point?

Afghanistan is too much of a mess right now for the idea to be given any serious consideration, but in the event of a stable Afghan government within the next decade or two, do you think uniting KPK/FATA with the rest of Pashtun lands in Afghanistan could be something that Pakistani Pashtuns would want?

It depends on where and who. The Peshawar valley is probably the most desified area while remote areas of FATA such as Waziristan and Mohmand Agency are the least desified. Of course, I'm only talking about native Pashtun areas, if we count Indic areas than the Pashtuns of Islamabad, Lahore, and Karachi are the most desified.
Even in the Peshawar valley, desification is largely limited to the educated classes of the urban areas, it's not that prevalent in the rural areas and lower classes. I would say though that even among the educated classes some families are desified while others are not.
And I don't think most would want to join Afghanistan even if it did become stable. Pakistaniyat has firmly established itself in the psyche of Pakistani Pashtuns. It's time we forgot this loy Afghanistan/pashtunistan stuff and focused on more attainable goals.

[Kakar-Wardak]

Under Islam the bride is ment to receive some gift from the groom, indics who deny their Hindu past do the opposite.

[Kakar-Wardak]

It depends on where and who. The Peshawar valley is probably the most desified area while remote areas of FATA such as Waziristan and Mohmand Agency are the least desified. Of course, I'm only talking about native Pashtun areas, if we count Indic areas than the Pashtuns of Islamabad, Lahore, and Karachi are the most desified.
Even in the Peshawar valley, desification is largely limited to the educated classes of the urban areas, it's not that prevalent in the rural areas and lower classes. I would say though that even among the educated classes some families are desified while others are not.
And I don't most would want to join Afghanistan even if it did become stable. Pakistaniyat has firmly established itself in the psyche of Pakistani Pashtuns. It's we forgot this loy Afghanistan/pashtunistan stuff and focused on more attainable goals.

Even this so called desification is basically making food more spicy, Pashtuns despise punjabies any ethnic group which sees no shame in openly farting in front of others, what is there to take from them?

[Charsi Malang]

Even this so called desification is basically making food more spicy, Pashtuns despise punjabies any ethnic group which sees no shame in openly farting in front of others, what is there to take from them?

A lot of Pashtun families now give their daughters to Punjabies in marriage without any hesitation. This was almost unheard of in my fathers generation. It was extremely rare, now no one even bats an eyelid. For Punjabies and Muhajirs of course they have hit the jackpot as every one of their future generations can now claim to be Pathan or Afghan. Also another plus point is that they can also slowly now change their complexion through this practice. As far fetched as it may sound, it's becoming more and more common.

[Akbar]

in pukhtunkhwa there is the dowrey system.
much like indians and pakis. the female parents and in some cases the male parent ask for household things and even cars.

in Afghanistan it used to be prevelant among some paktiawal ,they would ask walwar for their daughters and in some cases the girl and boy would become old because they couldnt pay the walwar.

this has been now banned by the teibal elders and governement.

[Kakar-Wardak]

A lot of Pashtun families now give their daughters to Punjabies in marriage without any hesitation. This was almost unheard of in my fathers generation. It was extremely rare, now no one even bats an eyelid. For Punjabies and Muhajirs of course they have hit the jackpot as every one of their future generations can now claim to be Pathan or Afghan. Also another plus point is that they can also slowly now change their complexion through this practice. As far fetched as it may sound, it's becoming more and more common.

Progressive genes dominate so more chance kids will look like punjabies as Fair skin coloured eyes are recessive genes.