How is the relationship between Pakistani and Afghan Pashtuns in the west?

[Charsi Malang]

Maybe small minority claim to be pathans. Tell me one MQM politician who said he's pathan. Urdu speakers muhajirs were elite of India from cities while pathans in India lived in villages and didn't migrate.

Proud of being urdu speaker, eating pan and being educated is true. Literacy rate is 100% among muhajirs. Some may also think they are better then others. But it's like saying all pathans are stupid naswar smoking bacha baz.

Racist jokes about pathans isn't one way street, look at your posts. Though muhajirs hate Afghans because of their criminal nature and backwardness and want them out of Karachi and Pakistan. Claiming to be afghan today in Pakistan mean one way ticket to Kabul by rangers.

It wouldn't make sense for MQM leaders to claim they are Pathan in public as they represent Muhajirs. In secret they probably do. Just because an MQM leader doesn't do something in public, it doesn't mean the rest of his ethnicity follows suit.

A vast number of Muhajirs claim they are "Pathan"- so much so that now some people actually believe that "Pathan" is a separate ethnicity to Pashtun. Trust me almost every single one save for a few will argue endlessly about this. They will tell you that Pashto speakers are Pakhtuns whereas they are "Pathans"- LOL they've invented a new ethnicity when anyone with a little background knowledge understands that "Pathan" is the Indian word for Pashto speakers/Afghans.

A lot of people will refute the claim that Muhajirs were the elite of India. Muhajirs commonly think they are better than everyone else yet don't even understand their ethnicity. Pathans do commonly use naswar-it's a fact. By the way naswar is used not smoked- in English it is known as ""snuff dipping", as do a lot of Americans in the southwest portion of the country and even in some European countries. Whoever believes that Pathans are stupid is stupid themself. Read some accounts by British colonialists who commented that Pathans are a very intelligent race. However as they speak Indic languages, with limited understanding and with a distinct accent they are perceived to be stupid.

My posts are based on experiences- I have some cousins married to Muhajir women- I know. We have many Muhajir families in my parents hometown.

You will commonly find Muhajirs/Punjabies making racist jokes about Pashtuns brazenly on Pakistani MEDIA (if I have time I will post some links) I'm not talking about light banter but jokes ranging from sexuality to naswar and everything in between. It is common to find Muhajirs/Punjabies making fun of people speaking in Pashto but never ever the other way round. It is common to find Muhajirs making fun of naswar but I've never seen anyone making fun of paan where paan is a hell of a lot dirtier.

Claiming to be Afghan in Pakistan may end you up in Kabul, but claiming to be Afghan/Pashtun abroad elevates your social status to another level-especially if you are a Punjabi/Muhajir.

[logical]

A vast number of Muhajirs claim they are "Pathan"- so much so that now some people actually believe that "Pathan" is a separate ethnicity to Pashtun. Trust me almost every single one save for a few will argue endlessly about this. They will tell you that Pashto speakers are Pakhtuns whereas they are "Pathans"- LOL they've invented a new ethnicity when anyone with a little background knowledge understands that "Pathan" is the Indian word for Pashto speakers/Afghans.

A lot of people will refute the claim that Muhajirs were the elite of India. Muhajirs commonly think they are better than everyone else yet don't even understand their ethnicity. Pathans do commonly use naswar-it's a fact. By the way naswar is used not smoked- in English it is known as ""snuff dipping", as do a lot of Americans in the southwest portion of the country and even in some European countries. Whoever believes that Pathans are stupid is stupid themself. Read some accounts by British colonialists who commented that Pathans are a very intelligent race. However as they speak Indic languages, with limited understanding and with a distinct accent they are perceived to be stupid.

My posts are based on experiences- I have some cousins married to Muhajir women- I know. We have many Muhajir families in my parents hometown.

You will commonly find Muhajirs/Punjabies making racist jokes about Pashtuns brazenly on Pakistani MEDIA (if I have time I will post some links) I'm not talking about light banter but jokes ranging from sexuality to naswar and everything in between. It is common to find Muhajirs/Punjabies making fun of people speaking in Pashto but never ever the other way round. It is common to find Muhajirs making fun of naswar but I've never seen anyone making fun of paan where paan is a hell of a lot dirtier.

Claiming to be Afghan in Pakistan may end you up in Kabul, but claiming to be Afghan/Pashtun abroad elevates your social status to another level-especially if you are a Punjabi/Muhajir.

Not at all, pathan mean pakhtun. No one say urdu speakers are pathans in Pakistan. You are just making up lies to make your self feel better. Now I have doubt about you living in Pakistan. And claiming to be afghan/pashtun in foreign countries to elevate status? you most be out of your mind right? I know afghanis live in their own buble but that's hilarious even by your standard.

Urdu speakers were elite of India. Your reference to British about pathan race intelligence, first of I never doubted any human being intelligence. But it's a fact that 100% of muhajirs are educated while ratio is much lower in other people of our country. It has to do with muhajirs being elites of India when they migrated.

And jokes, where did you learn about pan spitting? It's because muhajirs joke about it, people laugh at themselves in these shows. Only afghanis take it personally because of their not so elevated status in society. Stop watching these shows. And don't tell me racism is one way street. First you paint all muhajirs with same brush then complain about some jokes in media which are not even racist.

You seem to have family married to every ethnicity you write racist things about, I wonder if they know about real you?

[Charsi Malang]

Not at all, pathan mean pakhtun. No one say urdu speakers are pathans in Pakistan. You are just making up lies to make your self feel better. Now I have doubt about you living in Pakistan. And claiming to be afghan/pashtun in foreign countries to elevate status? you most be out of your mind right? I know afghanis live in their own buble but that's hilarious even by your standard.

Urdu speakers were elite of India. Your reference to British about pathan race intelligence, first of I never doubted any human being intelligence. But it's a fact that 100% of muhajirs are educated while ratio is much lower in other people of our country. It has to do with muhajirs being elites of India when they migrated.

And jokes, where did you learn about pan spitting? It's because muhajirs joke about it, people laugh at themselves in these shows. Only afghanis take it personally because of their not so elevated status in society. Stop watching these shows. And don't tell me racism is one way street. First you paint all muhajirs with same brush then complain about some jokes in media which are not even racist.

You seem to have family married to every ethnicity you write racist things about, I wonder if they know about real you?

I was born and raised in England- I have spent a huge amount of time amongst Muhajirs and Punjabis. If you've ever stepped out of Pakistan you will see how almost 90% of Pakistanis abroad claim that their ancestry is Afghan/Persian/Pashtun whatever. I am probably a lot older than you- Afghans are respected by a lot of people abroad especially by other Muslims, and even non Muslims. However their popularity amongst non Muslims has waned ever so slightly amongst non Muslims over the years due to the political climate but I find they are still a hell of a lot more respected than Pakistanis. In Pakistan Afghans are not respected and I have seen this with my own eyes but that is because they are refugees- they will be treated bad-it is wrong but that's how it is.

The education rate amongst Muhajirs is high and they hold education in good esteem- a very good trait-the rest of Pakistan is now catching up.

I didn't learn about paan spitting from the TV as I don't watch these shows regularly. My parents many years ago used to watch these shows and I used to see a disproportionately high amount of jokes directed towards Pashtuns than other ethnicities. These jokes always were and are racist- if you make these comments or jokes on TV in a developed country you will face criticism. I've never seen a joke directed towards Muhajirs or Punjabis on a Pashto channel or programme.

My family are very broad minded and that is why they have married into different ethnicities- they all regret it now. Every single person in my family knows the real me. I'm not racist- I have friends from all backgrounds which is why I am able to extrapolate habits common to certain groups.

[Nekrofrost]

. .
And jokes, where did you learn about pan spitting? It's because muhajirs joke about it, people laugh at themselves in these shows. Only afghanis take it personally because of their not so elevated status in society. Stop watching these shows. And don't tell me racism is one way street. First you paint all muhajirs with same brush then complain about some jokes in media which are not even racist.

You seem to have family married to every ethnicity you write racist things about, I wonder if they know about real you?

You do know that racism is more of a systematic thing than it is simply discrimination right? Firstly, Racism is when us pashtuns get made fun of for naswar yet a lot of punjabis and sindhis also do naswar(as do swedish people here in sweden but they call it snus). Racism is when pashtuns are make fun of for an accent while punjabis arent or when we are made fun of for speaking pashto with fellow pashtuns while punjabis speak punjabi everywhere and expect everyone to understand it.
As far as the systematic thing goes, pashtuns are always made fun of on tv, pashtuns are racially profiles after terrorist attacks and pashtun areas untill very recent years have been undeveloped. On tv youll find channels like geo news have shows like khabarnaak where its all punjabi and expect everyone to understand while you will never find a balochi or pashto program like that in these channels(dont mention PTV cuz that channel is dead and nobody watches that anymore).
You cant call it a two way street cuz pashtuns arent the ones enforcing pashto on the country and having punjabis or muhajirs arrested. So stfu about racism when you havent experienced it.

[Dost]

You do know that racism is more of a systematic thing than it is simply discrimination right? Firstly, Racism is when us pashtuns get made fun of for naswar yet a lot of punjabis and sindhis also do naswar(as do swedish people here in sweden but they call it snus). Racism is when pashtuns are make fun of for an accent while punjabis arent or when we are made fun of for speaking pashto with fellow pashtuns while punjabis speak punjabi everywhere and expect everyone to understand it.
As far as the systematic thing goes, pashtuns are always made fun of on tv, pashtuns are racially profiles after terrorist attacks and pashtun areas untill very recent years have been undeveloped. On tv youll find channels like geo news have shows like khabarnaak where its all punjabi and expect everyone to understand while you will never find a balochi or pashto program like that in these channels(dont mention PTV cuz that channel is dead and nobody watches that anymore).
You cant call it a two way street cuz pashtuns arent the ones enforcing pashto on the country and having punjabis or muhajirs arrested. So stfu about racism when you havent experienced it.

I agree that Pashtun people are discriminated, and also given negative stereotypes in media channels in general. Yeah, a lot of Pakistanis chew Naswar, but let's be honest. That **** is popular in KPK and then makes its way to Punjab and other areas.


Regarding what you said about the Pakistani media industry, I can do nothing but agree with you. Even Punjabi people get type-casted in plays. It's not fair, and not accurate. At the same time, most Pakistanis literally give zero ****s about these Karachi-based drama producers.

[Samandri]

Maybe small minority claim to be pathans. Tell me one MQM politician who said he's pathan. Urdu speakers muhajirs were elite of India from cities while pathans in India lived in villages and didn't migrate.

Proud of being urdu speaker, eating pan and being educated is true. Literacy rate is 100% among muhajirs. Some may also think they are better then others. But it's like saying all pathans are stupid naswar smoking bacha baz.

Racist jokes about pathans isn't one way street, look at your posts. Though muhajirs hate Afghans because of their criminal nature and backwardness and want them out of Karachi and Pakistan. Claiming to be afghan today in Pakistan mean one way ticket to Kabul by rangers.

Its not like every Indian Mohajir claim to be Pathan.....may be two or three out of every ten Mohajirs say they are Pathan.....a bigger number of them claim to be Syeds, which is understandable as Syeds have Brahman-like status in India so many registered themselves as Syeds after arrival in Karachi in 1947. Mohajir leaders like Altaf Hussain. Pervez Muharaf, Haider Abbas Rizwi, Faisal Sabzwari, Mustafa Kamal etc claim to be Syed......Almost every Indian-Mohajir with Khan surname say that he/she is Pathan. Aamir Khan, Afaq Khan etc of MQM will be calling themselves Pathan. As they are neither linguistically nor culturally Pashtuns, so only occasionally they will make declaration that they are Pathans, other than this they are 100% like every other Mohajir.

And literacy rate is high in them because they are urban people and hit the jackpot by grabbing Karachi which was then capital of Pakistan. Ironically the same Indian-Muslims in India are considered backward and relatively illiterate people by Hindus. In any city of India, Indian-Muslims are the most backward , poor and Jahil people of the population.

[Dost]

Its not like every Indian Mohajir claim to be Pathan.....may be two or three out of every ten Mohajirs say they are Pathan.....a bigger number of them claim to be Syeds, which is understandable as Syeds have Brahman-like status in India so many registered themselves as Syeds after arrival in Karachi in 1947. Mohajir leaders like Altaf Hussain. Pervez Muharaf, Haider Abbas Rizwi, Faisal Sabzwari, Mustafa Kamal etc claim to be Syed......Almost every Indian-Mohajir with Khan surname say that he/she is Pathan. Aamir Khan, Afaq Khan etc of MQM will be calling themselves Pathan. As they are neither linguistically nor culturally Pashtuns, so only occasionally they will make declaration that they are Pathans, other than this they are 100% like every other Mohajir.

And literacy rate is high in them because they are urban people and hit the jackpot by grabbing Karachi which was then capital of Pakistan. Ironically the same Indian-Muslims in India are considered backward and relatively illiterate people by Hindus. In any city of India, Indian-Muslims are the most backward , poor and Jahil people of the population.

What is your claim to fame?

[Samandri]

And this so called Urdu 'adab' and 'tehzeeb' of Delhi and Lucknow was at its peak in 18th century when Mughal empire was at its lowest and Indo-Muslim society was undergoing degeneration and degradation. Historians associate it with uselessness and moral decay of the people of the Urdu belt.

Karachiites are kind of people who lack the virtues of rural folk and possess all the vices of urban folk

[mungojerry]

I was born and raised in England- I have spent a huge amount of time amongst Muhajirs and Punjabis. If you've ever stepped out of Pakistan you will see how almost 90% of Pakistanis abroad claim that their ancestry is Afghan/Persian/Pashtun whatever. I am probably a lot older than you- Afghans are respected by a lot of people abroad especially by other Muslims, and even non Muslims. However their popularity amongst non Muslims has waned ever so slightly amongst non Muslims over the years due to the political climate but I find they are still a hell of a lot more respected than Pakistanis. In Pakistan Afghans are not respected and I have seen this with my own eyes but that is because they are refugees- they will be treated bad-it is wrong but that's how it is.

The education rate amongst Muhajirs is high and they hold education in good esteem- a very good trait-the rest of Pakistan is now catching up.

I didn't learn about paan spitting from the TV as I don't watch these shows regularly. My parents many years ago used to watch these shows and I used to see a disproportionately high amount of jokes directed towards Pashtuns than other ethnicities. These jokes always were and are racist- if you make these comments or jokes on TV in a developed country you will face criticism. I've never seen a joke directed towards Muhajirs or Punjabis on a Pashto channel or programme.

My family are very broad minded and that is why they have married into different ethnicities- they all regret it now. Every single person in my family knows the real me. I'm not racist- I have friends from all backgrounds which is why I am able to extrapolate habits common to certain groups.

brothar, are you crazee? no Pakistanis abroad claim ancestry from Afghan, Pashtune or Persian.

you Pashtunes and Afghans make fool of yourselfs everyday by saying such things in the forum. Muhajirs, Indians, Pakistanis none of them hardly think about Afghans Pashtunes or what not. for us you are cavemans, white or Kurd/Persian wannabees speaking funny languages.

[Nekrofrost]

brothar, are you crazee? no Pakistanis abroad claim ancestry from Afghan, Pashtune or Persian.

you Pashtunes and Afghans make fool of yourselfs everyday by saying such things in the forum. Muhajirs, Indians, Pakistanis none of them hardly think about Afghans Pashtunes or what not. for us you are cavemans, white or Kurd/Persian wannabees speaking funny languages.

Hahahaha you are a joke. You clearly havent been outside of pakistan(or maybe even in pakistan) cuz you have soo many ****in people claiming arab,turkish,persian and mughal ancestry is hilarious. Try telling any qureshi or syed he is of indian origin and youll see what we mean.

[Dost]

Hahahaha you are a joke. You clearly havent been outside of pakistan(or maybe even in pakistan) cuz you have soo many ****in people claiming arab,turkish,persian and mughal ancestry is hilarious. Try telling any qureshi or syed he is of indian origin and youll see what we mean.

You are the bigger retard even considering this guy is Pakistani. lol

[logical]

You do know that racism is more of a systematic thing than it is simply discrimination right? Firstly, Racism is when us pashtuns get made fun of for naswar yet a lot of punjabis and sindhis also do naswar(as do swedish people here in sweden but they call it snus). Racism is when pashtuns are make fun of for an accent while punjabis arent or when we are made fun of for speaking pashto with fellow pashtuns while punjabis speak punjabi everywhere and expect everyone to understand it.
As far as the systematic thing goes, pashtuns are always made fun of on tv, pashtuns are racially profiles after terrorist attacks and pashtun areas untill very recent years have been undeveloped. On tv youll find channels like geo news have shows like khabarnaak where its all punjabi and expect everyone to understand while you will never find a balochi or pashto program like that in these channels(dont mention PTV cuz that channel is dead and nobody watches that anymore).
You cant call it a two way street cuz pashtuns arent the ones enforcing pashto on the country and having punjabis or muhajirs arrested. So stfu about racism when you havent experienced it.

Hey look these muhajirs force us to speak urdu in Karachi.... I mean come on, get real. No one is forcing you to speak urdu. Afghanis speak urdu, who forced them? How is some shows in private channels forcing anything? Private channels will put any show which will make them money including pashto. If they see there is demand for it. PTV is state channel and they have shows in Balochi even if money isn't made. In fact PTV some how always show losses, corruption I guess. But private channels don't have that luxury.

Don't play pashto card when security forces arrest illegal afghanis. Muhajirs are being pushed to the wall by rangers and here you cry about pashto speaker arrested who happen to be illegal afghanis.

[Charsi Malang]

Born and raised in London? That explain your ignorance. About regret, do they know the option of divorce or not? I guess they all divorced lol

If you ever stepped in Pakistan then you would know status of Afghanis. If you ever stepped in Iran then you would know status of Afghanis. Persians treat you worst then dogs. Persian culture which is pretty much urban consider you animals. You guys are treated better in Pakistan because population is mostly rural and uneducated like afghanis. While in foreign countries where every muzlim is same in their eyes, claiming to be one over other is not only a lie but hilarious. If you think you being afghan have any advantage over Indian muslim in west then wake up buddy.

I've seen urdu comedy show on samaa tv, jokes being about pathans is exaggeration to say the least. They joke about non-pathan 95% of the time in which you laugh but take personally few jokes about pathans.

You seem to be the ignorant one. The fact I am from England means I can see how your kith and kin lie when they are outside their homeland where hardly anyone can work out real ethnicities, and they think they can forge new ethnicities. I can also see how they are treated as compared to other nationalities.

Divorce amongst Pashtuns traditionally is reserved for situations in which a woman is unfaithful. Luckily none of my cousins have faced that- but if they could start over they all certainly would have kept away from Muhajir women.

Read my post properly- I know English isn't your first language but try- I have been to Pakistan and I have in my post stated that Afghans are treated badly there. Refugees are not treated well anywhere- it's the way it goes- neediness and poverty are terrible things. I am not talking about how Afghans refugees are treated in countries like Iran and Pakistan. On a level playing field in the West you will find Iranians prefer Afghans over Pakistanis-even those few Afghans who can't speak Farsi.

In foreign countries where all Muslims are viewed as the same there are still different perceptions of Muslims from different countries. A Pakistani is still viewed as an irritating Indian offshoot (albeit a slightly Islamicized one) whereas every other nationality has a distinct identity.

There is a stark difference in the way a Pakistani is viewed and treated as compared to other nationalities. Being an Afghan carries a huge advantage over being an Indian Muslim or Pakistani- I have seen this and felt this my entire life from school, college, university, and in the workplace.

Let me give you an example of your cherished colonial sport cricket. England will lose happily to anyone but if they lose to Pakistan then you will have every allegation under the sun flying around including cheating and God knows what else. You won't remember the series of tussles Imran Khan had in the 80s with Sir Ian Botham and and a few other cricketers.

Pakistani descent grooming gangs were highlighted in the media for indecent activities involving underage girls. The first time I have ever seen or heard of an ethnicity being singled out on national media in the U.K. despite the existence of patterns of criminal activities being linked to other ethnicities. National media never links crimes to ethnicities but in the case of Pakistanis or descendants of Pakistanis it was all over the news despite a lot of the perpetrators being British born. This feeling of resentment is so strong that even the foreign minister at the time had airtime related to this whole episode.

Being Afghan carries a humungous advantage over being an Indian Muslim in any country except Pakistan or maybe Iran. Don't try and educate me about how Afghans are viewed in the West- I am from the West and my family have been here for over 60 years. We have felt these things over decades before the West was flooded with Muslims from different nations.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee and experience life in different countries for many years before coming up with any conclusions.

[Charsi Malang]

Born and raised in London? That explain your ignorance. About regret, do they know the option of divorce or not? I guess they all divorced lol

If you ever stepped in Pakistan then you would know status of Afghanis. If you ever stepped in Iran then you would know status of Afghanis. Persians treat you worst then dogs. Persian culture which is pretty much urban consider you animals. You guys are treated better in Pakistan because population is mostly rural and uneducated like afghanis. While in foreign countries where every muzlim is same in their eyes, claiming to be one over other is not only a lie but hilarious. If you think you being afghan have any advantage over Indian muslim in west then wake up buddy.

I've seen urdu comedy show on samaa tv, jokes being about pathans is exaggeration to say the least. They joke about non-pathan 95% of the time in which you laugh but take personally few jokes about pathans.

I'm sorry, I forgot to add another point. My brothers in the U.k. will understand this.

The very word "Paki" in the U.K. is an insult and a very racist term-it has been so since the 60s. In any country but the the U.K. being called a Paki is not insulting, but Pakistanis are despised so much here that even a shortened version of Pakistani has been turned into an extremely offensive term. That is the reality which you will never realise.


By the way I don't watch ****ty Urdu/Punjabi stage dramas or whatever- the little exposure I had to those was back in the day when my parents used to watch them.

[Nekrofrost]

Hey look these muhajirs force us to speak urdu in Karachi.... I mean come on, get real. No one is forcing you to speak urdu. Afghanis speak urdu, who forced them? How is some shows in private channels forcing anything? Private channels will put any show which will make them money including pashto. If they see there is demand for it. PTV is state channel and they have shows in Balochi even if money isn't made. In fact PTV some how always show losses, corruption I guess. But private channels don't have that luxury.

Don't play pashto card when security forces arrest illegal afghanis. Muhajirs are being pushed to the wall by rangers and here you cry about pashto speaker arrested who happen to be illegal afghanis.

Wtf.... why do i even argue with people like you.
You are the desi equivalent of white people(not a compliment) and im fuking sick of this white people bull ****. Go back to your fuking daal and bhangra instead of ignoring all the valid points of an arguing and making up dumb bull****. If yoi cant understand what im trying to say maybe you shouldnt fuking argue over it either.