Pashtun female honor

[Muslimah]

^ yes but what you're saying is you can tell the women what to do, but they cant tell you what to do....

may i point out that Allah swt has made us equal. If you feel the need to tell us how to dress, keep in mind we will tell you how to dress. Most likely a man can't dress himself anyway...haha

[Roshina]

Hm... Shlombay, you've twisted many of my posts so far, and I see this one's another one. See, you're purposely misreading what I'm saying. In one post, I made it a point to say that marriage is about compromise; you cannot expect to make demands on your wife and think it's all good. Similarly, a woman cannot expect to be self-centered, and think all's well.

Yet, to that exact same post of mine, you said, "Ever heard of compromise?" So ... I'm not sure what else to expect from you, really.

Besides, this quote of yours that I'm going to paste below speaks a lot more than you perhaps intended for it to.

Look up Naqis aul Aqal

(In response to this, I defined "naqisul aqal" for those who might not be familiar with it.) You claimed later that you don't agree with it. Then why bring it up? Do explain what you meant by bringing it up.

You guys keep forgetting that we KNOW our men love us; we KNOW our men want the best for us. And you're also forgetting that we, TOO, want the best for ourselves, but you brothers are assuming that we don't *know* what's best for us. Why is that? Are we that stupid in your mind? (Clearly so, as your above quote indicates.)

As Muslimah said, you want to tell your women what to do, but you don't want them to tell you what to do. Why is this? You want to make our decisions for us when we already know how to make our decisions for ourselves.

Now, if you marry a village girl who is not well-educated, as would be suitable for certain people here, then by all means, go ahead and tell her what to do and do whatever in your power to *prevent* her from doing whatever you don't want her to do.

Master Khan said it well: According to his mom, if she had any daughters, the daughters would NOT be living in the west. But the sons are living in the west, and that's perfectly fine, right?

I know, I know - the west is a horrible despicable place. But for women only? Not for men? Are sins/crimes committed by women only and not by men? C'mon, guys. It takes two to produce a child!

[Muslimah]

yes
men need women
women are smart enough on their own...but put up with men since they feel sorry for them :P
thats the difference

[Mayana]

Traditional roles are all nice and good.. Women can be all dolly and pretty and guys can protect them, no need for women to protect themselves.. right.

But what if.. one day.. she has to protect herself against her man?

[Roshina]

Qrratugai, Men and woman are not the same. You have to face it.

I've never said they're the same... did I? Because I don't believe they're the same.

[Roshina]

Traditional roles are all nice and good.. Women can be all dolly and pretty and guys can protect them, no need for women to protect themselves.. right.

But what if.. one day.. she has to protect herself against her man?

For sure!

Last year, a Pashtun man passed away around here. Since he had been the one taking care of the whole family, never bothering to educate his wife about the necessities of today's life (e.g., how to work a bank account, how to take money out, how to apply for a job, where to look, etc.), his wife was utterly destroyed. They had young kids, three and all of them under the age of 7.

It was enough to suffer the loss of a life partner, but to add salt to her wound, the poor widow had no idea how to go about living her life now! She didn't even know her husband's passwords to his accounts -- or anything about the accounts to begin with.

I have absolutely no problem with husband and wife *together* deciding on who should do what. As long as they're happy with it, we are no one to say, "Hey, hey, that's not fair!" But when YOU think that YOU know better than your WIFE and therefore wanna "protect" her from the vicious clutches of today's world, you gotta pause for a moment and think, "What does my wife think of this? I need to discuss this with her." Again, the girls raised in a village will expect her husband to be like this, but an educated girl, or a girl raised outside of a village, will not take it. She's gonna want to have a say in her marriage because she's MORE than a "cook" and a "servant" (referring to the responses of certain members in the thread on what they want in a woman!).

[Roshina]

Gosh. sorry

No worries. Just don't put words in people's mouths, guley

[Roshina]

The perspectives given here by the female members over all aren't the same as those presented by the male members. This is what I mean by letting us speak for ourselves. We don't need others to constantly speak for us, because we can do that ourselves -- well, most of us, anyway.

We are *partners* of each other. The relationship between us should be that of a partner and a partner, NOT that of a king and a servant. If one must be a king, the other must be the queen. We should be working together, protecting *each other* (that is to say, the man doesn't protect his wife only; the wife also protects him, as she's his source of honor in our culture. The ways through which they protect each other is obviously different, although it may vary from family to family.)

[Roshina]

Where did I put word in your mouth?

Refrain from assuming please. All I said was they are not equal. That is my point. And that's all.


Look up what it means to put words in someone's mouth.

Oh, okay. Sorry about that. And thanks for the clarification. But your post was specifically addressed to me, so I assumed you were thinking that *I* believe that women and men are the same, which is obviously untrue. I've a feeling, though, that you may be referring to the idea that women and men are equal, which I'd be more than happy to discuss. As you would know already, being the same doesn't actually/necessarily mean being equal. But that's a whole different story.

Khair, you get the point.

[Master Khan]

Men and Women are not the same.
So Qrrutagai you think its wrong for parents to teach their kids about Pashtun culture and their religion.
look they will be growing up with western kids in school, collage and uni and if you don't advise them then they will act like a western kid, next thing you know they will be in clubs, having boyfriends, disrespecting their parents and forgeting about their culture.
They will become the next britney spears

[Nadir Shah]

Men and Women are not the same.
So Qrrutagai you think its wrong for parents to teach their kids about Pashtun culture and their religion.
look they will be growing up with western kids in school, collage and uni and if you don't advise them then they will act like a western kid, next thing you know they will be in clubs, having boyfriends, disrespecting their parents and forgeting about their culture.
They will become the next britney spears

How exactly is going to clubs and the other vices you mentioned against Pashtun culture? Culture is an evolving thing. 50 years ago their was no TV in Pashtunkhwa? What do you think? Let us not suffocate our lives by making a monster out of the 'Pashtun' culture. If we pay our debt to the Pashtun cause and our actions have no negative value for our cause, we are free to live our lives as we wish.

[Master Khan]

How exactly is going to clubs and the other vices you mentioned against Pashtun culture? Culture is an evolving thing. 50 years ago their was no TV in Pashtunkhwa? What do you think? Let us not suffocate our lives by making a monster out of the 'Pashtun' culture. If we pay our debt to the Pashtun cause and our actions have no negative value for our cause, we are free to live our lives as we wish.

so going to clubs and dacing around is alright?

[Roshina]

So Qrrutagai you think its wrong for parents to teach their kids about Pashtun culture and their religion.

Uhh... no, Master Khana, I did not say that. I did not even imply that.

In fact, can you please quote me where I even hinted at the dumbness that parents should not teach their kids about their language/culture/religion?

This isn't about parents and children, by the way. This is about a husband telling his wife how to behave, a husband disciplining his wife because he thinks that she lacks the ability to judge for herself what's wrong and right. This is about young men like you who think that they need to "protect" their "women" from the western society when you yourself live in the western society but believe that it's wrong for a Pashtun woman to live in the western society.

So, remember that parents have EVERY right over us. They're our real guardians. It's their obligation as well as a right to protect us, nurture us, guide us, teach us what's wrong and right -- but then when we reach a certain age of understanding (according to Islam), that's it: We are responsible for our own actions and deeds. We'll have to enter the real world with whatever our parents blessed us with.

Spouses are supposed to work together and teach things to *each other.* Anyone who thinks it's his obligation to discipline his wife is just an illiterate kid who doesn't deserve a wife... or deserves only a wife who's just as illiterate as he is.

That's just how it is.

[Roshina]

so going to clubs and dacing around is alright?

^ LOL, Nadar Shah :p That's what you get for trying to knock some sense into a folk who think that women must be disciplined by their husbands -- but never vice versa

[Nadir Shah]

so going to clubs and dacing around is alright?

If someone indulges in these activities in his/her personal sphere without adverse effects on the populace at large, then I have no problem with it. Infact, it can even be considered healthy. Dancing, until a week back, used to be one of my favorite past times.