current state of Pashtun women in Pashtun society

[Shayesta]

^ Exactly. A very good example of this are my mother and my grandmother's. My grandmother's didn't have a great life either and therefore they didn't care what's happening to their daughters and daughters-in-law; As long as their men don't get upset by the women because they were type of women who believe that a woman is there thanks to grace of a man. The very same man who takes birth from a woman's womb, it's again also women who teach their sons to do exactly what their fathers are doing. Because my grandmother's had difficult lives, they had made (honestly speaking) my mum's life a hell. No education for her, no work, no freedom to choose own life-partner, no freedom of having friends, always accept the fact a woman is a man's shoe, and don't dare speak up if a man beats her up.

But if you meet my mother, you will think she always has led a very beautiful life. She fought against her entire family and entire in-laws when she decided she wants to leave for Europe and wants her daughters to study and make a future. She risked her own life, she wasn't afraid of losing her life because our future to her mattered much more than her own safety.

Once I asked her how come she doesn't hate her mother and mother-in-law for what they did to her and why she gets mad at me if I speak against them? She replied; 'Because what happened has happened. Only thing I can do now is try to make things better for my daughters and I am very thankful to Allah Tallah that even if I was put on fire by both sides, at least my daughters are saved from the very same misfortune. At least my daughters have the freedom to study, to work, to have friends and to marry someone without being forced.'

And that's the reason why I love my mother unbelievable much and that's the reason why she is only person on earth I CANNOT life without. She has taught me to be gentle on people around me, be gentle with my husband and respect my husband's wishes, but at the same to also lead my own life and no matter what I should NEVER accept oppression from anyone. And she was possibly the first woman in my entire family who first fulfilled her daughters' demands and then sons' demands, that's why my brothers never ever interfered with me and never told me what to do or what not to do. Maybe I am saying all this because she is my mother, but I couldn't be less proud of her and am very thankful to have as amazing and as intelligent (without even studying) as her in my life. I thank Allah Tallah a million times for this.

[Michin Khel]

Does the average Pukhtun girl have access to the computer or internet?
Can the average Pukhtun girl read and write difficult material, know how to express an opinion of hers?
Where does the average Pukhtun girl live?

We here are sitting online, expressing our views and talking to members of the opposite gender; what would a Pukhtun girl raised in a village who is taught that this is haraam think of us?

Do we really have the right to speak for other people?

Most PF members are raised and educated outside of Pukhtunkhwa and Afghanistan (often in the west, to be exact); does the average Pukhtun girl have the same opportunities that we do?

And I have to agree with Tor Khan there. It's not just women who suffer; men suffer as well, because it's not always men who mistreat us. It's society in the general, which includes women. For instance, mothers-in-law tend to treat their daughters-in-law VERY badly (again, this is a reality for a lot of women, not even just Pukhtuns). It's more like a way of taking out their bitterness and anger on other women who are in their power, because they themselves were mistreated when they were daughters-in-law. It's a brutal cycle that never stops because in order for it to stop, a daughter-in-law growing into a mother-in-law has to think something like:

"I was mistreated, and I hated my life because of my mother- and sisters-in-law. I wish they'd been kinder to me. And, so, I should not mistreat MY daughters-in-law so that other women don't suffer the same way I did."

It's just like that one story of the two brothers who were raised by an abusive father. One brother grew up to be a successful banker (or a businessman, not sure exactly), and the other brother grew up to be a thief and was imprisoned. Of course, one wonders why two bothers raised in the same family would lead such different lifestyles, so when they were being interviewed, the successful one said, "When I was a child, my father used to beat me and my brother up a lot. He was really bad to us. So I vowed that when I grow up, I'm going to be nothing like him; I'm going to be better." The other brother said, "When I was a child, my father used to beat me and my brother up a lot. He was really bad to us. So now, I have to take revenge on someone else. If my father could do it to me, I can do it to someone else. Why not?"

Needless to remind us, we are generally very poor. Of course - what else can you expect from a people who are victims of constant war and violence? Not all of us can afford education for our children, especially for our daughters, and so sometimes, we get them (our daughters) married off at young ages to people who we beleive will take care of them.

Every society has its own unique problems, and ours happen to include poverty and hence illiteracy (or illiteracy and hence poverty, since the two go hand-in-hand).

So, yeah, I don't think ANY of us females on this board has a right to say that Pukhtun women are treated very badly or are treated very well. We can't take our own personal experiences and observations and say that they're the experiences of all Pukhtun women, since it's certainly not true for all Pukhtun women -- whether our experiences are good or bad. I know of Pukhtun women whose husbands treat them like queens. Then I know of Pukhtun women who are imprisoned in their own homes and are constantly abused.

Does either represent the situation of ALL Pukhtun women? No.

I am disappointed that no one has given thanks to your wonderful post.
I agree with you.

The male-dominated pashtun society is not ideal and best for females...we do give respect to our women but we dont recognize them as equals...we do not consider our wives to be partners and friends, rather we have limited them to be machines of babies production. When girl is born, her birth is not celebrated while birth of a son is occasion of happiness for pashtun parents (though very educated and advanced pashtun parents do not distinguish between son and daughter).
Girls are usually not permitted or encouraged to get education beyond primary level in typical pashtun families. While properly educated pashtun parents do not hesitate in providing education to their daughters.
Some thinks that education will make their girls immoral..!!
The religous pashtun families treat and raise their girls just like goats and sheeps..no education for girls in such families...according to them women have one purpose in life, to get marry and provide pleasure for their husbands.

education is the key to make the status of pashtun better.... Illiteracy and religous bigotery are important factors in keeping down the status of our women.

[Badlun]

I heard a comment that the status of Pakhtun women in Pashtun society is worse then that of a dog.Because a dog has the liberty to move around but a Pakhtun woman has to pass her whole house in the prison of the four walls of her house, even a dog has fundamental greedon of movement but a Pakhtun woman has none!!!!!!

I practicall see that 95% of Pakhtun women in Paksitan and Afghanistan pass their whole life within the limites of their houses, the only exceptions is that ehy go to hospitals or relatives homes, many times fully covered and acompanied by a male guardian...IS IT A LIFE WORTHY TO LEAD????? WHY ABOUT 30 MILLIONS PASHTUN WOMEN ARE SOCIALLY IMPRISONED ???????


There are many other rights like inheritance which must be given to pashtun women AND that with modern education the things are changing but i think once the pashtun women have the basic right of free movement then they can go to universities and colleges and can participate in social events freely not necessarily under the command of their male Guardians,,,we must treat pashtun women as human beings equal to men not a dependent on their men ,,whether husbands, fathers, brothers or sons .

Lets start a movement to liberate the 30 million Pashtun women who are prisoners in their own homes,,,,,they are born within the 4 walls and die within the 4 walls of their houses,,,,,,,,,,,what a jail,,,life time imprisonment ,,,,,,,,,how can we liberate Pashtun women ????

[Badlun]

For ameliorating the status of Pashtun woman we have to take start from the scratch, from zero. If here some Pashtun men and Pashtun women talk on this topic then its a good start. We have to do something practically to take out Pashtun woman from the quagmire they have been fallen by so called Pashtun traditions, Pashtun society, Pashtun chauvinist men and false ideas and the so called injunctions of religion and dictates of mullas.Some friends think that Pashtuns as a whole , both men and women are downtrodden so talking only of women is not justified.

I agree that Pashtuns as a nation , as a race ,,both men and women are suffering. We dont have a single nobel prize holder, a single world level scientist or technologist, or philosopher or scholar etc. Yes we have suicide bombers, terrorists, taliban, decoits, robbers, all negative,nothing positive.

But here the theme of this thread is even the worst status of women,who dont have the basic right of movement and expression. We have to break their chains,,men at least have these rights.They are economically better than women.Women totally depend on their men partners socially and economically. Situation of Pashtun women is many times worse than Pashtun men.

All of us have great ideas for the development and imporovement of the status of Pashtun women but what remains is the implementation strategy.How to implement all these ideas.Charity begins at home. Lets start from our sisters, mothers, wives, daughters, cousens, friends etc and then to expand the sphere of influence to other sectors of society.Eucation specially modern education and democracy are the excellent paanceas for all the ills of the Pashtun women.

We must launch a campaign against all kinds of obscurantist and fundamentalist Mullas, Taliban and their Madrassas specially the extremist Deobandi ,Wahabi , Ahle Hadith and Salafi ones.

However the best struggle can be through peaceful means, by education, internet, youth societies, encouraging Pashtun women and men by various motivational means to understand the dilapidated status of Pashtun women in Pashtun society and adopt all ways and means to change this horrible status of Pashtun women.

[spogmai shaglay]

Forget about women getting their legal rights... the basic islamic rights women are deprived off.. and who are the one depriving the women of their rights, whether legal or islamic??????????? Men???????

all rules, regulations in any society or culture are made by men and man has very well made rules and regulations for his favour and his benefits.......something that is not favourable or not beneficial to him even though its beneficial to the woman is completely chalked out......and i have said this earlier that the biggest enemy of a woman is not even another woman sometimes, but herself... who blindly follows cause she is forced to, not thinking about her well-being....and has accepted her plight......
its difficult for me to think from where can the initiative be taken in terms of practicality to improve the status of our pashtun women....

i dont know much about what the status of pashtun women since beginning... but to some extent i feel that some changes must have been brought about by men for their benefit or for superiority....

like the islamic rights which have been re framed or remoulded or changed from the original for the benefit of man...

Taliban's brutality against women is the biggest example of this...

[Darweshkhel]

The status of women in Pashtunwali:
Tribal Law of Pashtunwali and Women's Legislative Authority
by Palwasha Kakar http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/...arch/kakar.pdf

[Badlun]

Our focus in this topic should be on Pashtun woman ,,,not Pakistani woman or Muslim woman whether she is in Pakistan or Afghanistan or anywhere else because Pashtun woman on account of the lethal combination of Pashtunwali and so called extremist Islam is suffering and because of the traditions and tenets which are barbaric, inhuman , cruel and demonic.

There is a dire need of launching of an awareness campaign that Pashtun woman first must understand their position where they are. Then take steps to improve the situation in such a way that the tarditional family system remaines undisturbed but woman starts enjoying their fundamental rights of choice, expression and movemnet and education

Govvernment , Taliban and Mulla`s Islam -all these may be some of the reasons of the downtrodden condition of Pashtun woman but for me the amalgam of Pashtunwali and the traditional Islam of Taliban and Mullas is the biggest cause and on these two fronts we have to fight to improve the status of woman in Pashtun society .

On religious front there is a need of reformation and telling the Pashtun woman that they can participate in day to day activities like the wives of the Prophet and his companions. On Pashtunwali front we have to educate our Pashtun men that Pashtun woman is not the sole depositary for his honour and Pashtunwali. If his wife, sister, mother, or daughter goes around and does some business, participates in social , political and economic or educational activitiesor even religious activity like going to mosques,then its not the end of the world. He should not feel mortified that his woman is talking to others or doing business with others and that this is against his , honor ,ghairat or Pashtunwali.

Pashtun woman is iqually a n independent Pashtun. A Pashtun man and Pashtun woman should deal each other on equality basis,not one superior or inferior to other ,like a perfect pair based on mutual respect, love and understanding not a boss and subordinate relationship

I wish to liberate all the Pashtun women from the prison of their houses with the honour of Pashtunwali but with their liberty of movement and expression and economic activities.

We need comments , feed back from Pashtun sisters and brothers that how can we liberate millions of Pashtun women from their jails in the shape of their homes . Is it possible to start a Pashtun women movement for liberating them from the clutches of their male masters, enabling them to move freely , to get education where they want and join jobs where they wish.

How can we further control this wave of Talibanization who are bent upon destroying girls schools in many Pashtun lands. Can we do any thing or we should leave Pashtun women at the mercy of these barbaric wolves

[Shayesta]

Even more important than education is the right upbringing. Usually men are outside of their houses and it's down to women to raise the children as per their own wish, if those women start teaching their sons it's wrong to beat your wife and shows him how to treat a woman, I am sure even a man would know better than his father. For example. I was in Nangarhar in a very poor area where majority were uneducated and those men there treated their women like angels! They were cooking together with their wives, cleaning up together and asking their wives whether they are tired? I was seriously shocked seeing Pukhtoons so incredibly lovable towards their women and how much they respected women; Despite of being illiterate. And that was because mother's of those men were absolutely amazing! Despite of having bad pasts they used to remember their husbands with sorrow and love, and such women I really dearly respect! And again this shows that you don't need to be educated to be a 'human being'.

But then I also agree on the Islam aspect, most Pukhtoons can't read the Quran-e-Sharif and dunno what a sham it is in Islam to treat your wife like garbage.

[Shayesta]

^ LOL, sad but true. Even when something goes wrong between a couple you will never the women blame the guy for it, because first thing they start to say is; 'There must have been something wrong with the girl, otherwise the guy would never have left her.' While the truth can be the other way round as well.......

[Badlun]

Pragmatism with idealism and realism with vision and imagination should be used to solve all problems and in this context the solution to the Problems of Pashtun women lies in the panacea of great ideas of democracy with its implementation in all social and political speheres and the implementation of the philosophical concepts of liberty, equality and fratennity by modern education and religious reformation and reinterpretaion. We must take start from own families, homes, villages , towns, cities and countries to bring a positive change in the status of Pashtun woman.

[spogmai shaglay]

The ladies are also to blame. When wasting so much time gossiping they can read a book.

men and women both are to blame as mentioned in above post.....
rather than now just playing the blame game and just pointing out each mistake of men and women... we have to collectively think about the liberation of pashtun women.....

and also are all pashtun women educated to read a book??? they just hear and believe.....

the problem here with us is that rather than talking about the issue ... we end up finding faults in each other sayings and post...we have to grow up and unite to completely eradicate the problem that we are discussing here......

[spogmai shaglay]

Salamoona

When Pashtun woman stop pointin fingers at others we will get successful.

if here we stop pointing at each other and accept the fact that its the fault of both men and women, then we will succeed... Its the same as united we stand. divided we fall. Only when we come together can we fight for a cause...

[Badlun]

One argument is that we should wait till other more important problems of Pashtun society are solved, then we will concentrate on gender and Pashtun women issues.

But we must realize that Pashtun women are 50% of Pashtun population. They are part of Pashto and Pashtunwali . We cant wait till the time when everything will be all right with Pashtuns then we ll tackle the gender issue. Its not an unimportant issue-its part and parcel of the whole reformation and development scheme for Pashtuns.Its not a secondary issue. We have to take it up with war footings basis-its a burning issue. Pashtun´s politics, culture, religion, society , international relations, education,all are related to Pashtun women too.

Pashtun women problems solution is concomitant with Pashtun problems in genral. We have to adopt a holisitic approach not a piece meal one. How can a Pashtun ignore for the time being the problems of his mother, wife, sister, and daughter-no way.

[Toramana]

Hi interesting thread. From my own experience of interaction with a Pashtun family recently, I will say a woman is treated like a slave-object. I saw an innocent married girl in her early teens working from dawn to dusk like a donkey and then going to a room with her husband after every other person in the family had gone to bed. The girl even didn't have a proper room. Her mother-in-law was occupying the room decorated for her at the time of marriage.

I had the impression as if the girl is a slave and a sex object that has to appease the household members during the day and entertain her husband during the night.

I wouldn't take this particular case for general but it is a fact that women generally are treated like this in Pashtun household.

I also agree with the point that it is usually the woman that is the worst enemy of a woman within the bounds of a household.

I also don't agree that Islam gives women due or equal rights. Polygymy, matters of divorce, etc. are examples as how women rights are undermined in Islam.

[Mayana]

^ I disagree.
That might be the case in some households but it sure isn't a standard.
Essentially, we teach people how to treat us. If we endure being treated like a slave then we most likely will be treated as such. But if we demand the respect we deserve, we will get it. This is not medieval Afghanistan. There are opportunities, there are chances, there are possibilities.
It all depends from case to case.. and it depends on decisions you make. If you chose to live a life strictly for pleasing society, then this shall be your life. But if you make wise and rational decisions.. the above mentioned scenarios can easily be avoided.