Marriage to non-Pashtuns

[Admin Khan]

Aren't Mohamadzais known as Pukhtoons who speak Dari now?

Hi Shayesta,

No, that is not true. The soccer tournament that I had visited http://www.pashtunforums.com/sports-...urnament-2073/
was arranged my Mohammadzai's and I can be honest enough to admit, All I heard was Pashto. Not a single youngster spoke Dari, and believe me when I say they took Pashto serious. They went as far as making a Parsiwaan (Ehsan Aman, I think he is Tajik)To sing songs in Pashto to cater there needs. So I think that is a misconception, However, The elite of Mohammadzais who ended up in Kabul have adopted the Dari due to the environment they live in. Those who are in Kandahar obviously do not speak Dari.


-Thanks.

[Pukhtoon007]

thank god someone commented about the shinwari accusation he made then called someone a communist and then when i said something about him he made reference that khushal khan khattack said something about mohmands. so he attacked 2 tribes of pukhtoons and no one said anything to him srsli...

i wanna ask this guy he calls him self afghan i want to noe wat his traditions are what this afghan culture of his is. but he wont answer it. the idiot is reali biased coz he says he is not tajik or pukhtun but pukhtuns are stuffed up. thats called taking sides in my book.

we are not angels every race has ppl that do stuff against their religion n culture. but the reason u wont see as many pukhtanas as tajiks out n about is because we are not that open to western culture. thats just wat we duzzzz lol.

[Shayesta]

Hmm, I heard majority of Mohamadzais live in Kabul and don't speak a word of Pukhto. I had met this Mohamadzai guy and his Dari was very weak, my second cousin (a Tajik) asked him how come his Dari is so weak even though Mohamadzais speak excellent Dari? And he said it's true that majority speak Dari but his family doesn't since they were raised in Kandahar and went to Pekhawer afterwards. But it's good they are loyal to Pukhto, I wish I could turn non-Pukhto speaking Pukhtoons back to Pukhto as well.

And Ehsan Aman is a Pukhtoon by the way, originally from Helmand.

[Shayesta]

^ Afghans as in Pukhtoons or non-Pukhtoons as well?

[Roshina]

You said,"Who have boyfriends but are still very modest"

The quoted sentence above is where you are wrong, You can not have a boyfriend and be dating and yet consider yourself in compliance with our culture and religion. If you disagree with the above, You are not disagreeing with me. But you are disagreeing with Islam and Pashtunwali.

Um.... "Yet consider yourself in compliance with our culture and religion"? Where did I say that people who date are in compliance with religion and culture? My stance, in case you're not able to understand in spite of my having repeated it several times, was and still is this: Someone can have a boyfriend/girlfriend AND be modest at the same time because modesty doesn't end just with not having a boyfriend; my stance was not that having a boyfriend is okay in Pukhtunwali and Islam. So I really don't know why you keep bringing that up.

If your above statement had said, however, that "You think someone who has a bf/gf can STILL be modest, but you're wrong because that's impossible," then you'd have to prove how that's impossible. But that's not what you said -- you're changing your argument all the time (again, since you think that I think it's in compliance with our culture/religion).

I'd be delighted to discuss with you what dating means and Islam's stance on it, as well as marriage and inter-gender relations in Islam in general, but your posts so far have shown me that you don't have the ability to understand and beleive that your opinions are Islam's opinions. In order for me to indulge in further discussions with you on ANYTHING in Islam, you have to prove to me that you're worthy of my time. So far, you have failed in convincing me that I can give you the pleasure of having anymore discussions with you on this particular matter.

All I can say is, to you be your opinions and to me be mine.

[Shayesta]

Guys, you are all taking Qrratugai too much out of context. She said she knows some Pukhtanas who have boyfriends but yet are modest, she didn't say modesty lies in having a boyfriend. I have seen enough Europeans who are quiet modest and very respectful as well, but when it comes to having a boyfriend, it's very normal for them and they go out with guys very openly. People change their attitude and their thinking with time and location, maybe those Pukhtanas were some of those types? I know of people who were raised in Europe but yet keep up their culture and religion, but there are also people who lose it all as soon as they set a foot in West. Who knows, maybe those girls are thinking the 'Western way' and they were raised in a way it's normal for them having a boyfriend? They do not represent every single Pukhtana on earth and nor do those women who never date represent all Pukhtanas on earth. They might be type of people who don't know enough about Islam and Pakhtunwali and therefore aren't bothered either, but there are also women who don't date because they know about Islam and Pakhtunwali. Knowledge can make a huge difference, if their own parents weren't bothered in giving them the right knowledge then who are we to argue about them?

I am personally against this dating-stuff because I believe in that for every honest, sincere and 'clean' person there is an honest, sincere and clean person out there. Those who usually (usually, not always) date several times before getting married don't value being with the person they love as much any more, because the thing called 'love' becomes a compromise by then. The person has already 'loved' several people and therefore think anyone could be loved, not knowing that if you wait for the right one, the right time and don't jump over from girl to girl or guy to guy, you will actually feel the thing called love, not just experience it. If that makes sense.

[Dreamer]

does this matter? marry a good person... pashtun or non pashtun... we are all made up of the same amino acids and we will all become the same white bones in our graves

[Dreamer]

^ Good to hear my friend... My motto in life is each to their own
blue, green, orange etc... we are all human and if people looked beyond their racial/ethnic affiliations and looked that larger human picture the world would be a better place

[Dreamer]

me? personally? Umm well never really liked any non pashtuna to actually think about it... if I met a good muslima then sure why not... but at the moment all the potentials that are being proposed are pashtuna... there are people that my some of my family apporve of and then there are some that my family disaprove of but in my family I have a moms cousin who married a non pashtuna, an uncle who married a jewish lady ( that raised a few eyebrows) one who married an english lady and my own trors son is getting engaged to an english girl

[Roshina]

Guys, you are all taking Qrratugai too much out of context. She said she knows some Pukhtanas who have boyfriends but yet are modest,she didn't say modesty lies in having a boyfriend. I have seen enough Europeans who are quiet modest and very respectful as well, but when it comes to having a boyfriend, it's very normal for them and they go out with guys very openly. People change their attitude and their thinking with time and location, maybe those Pukhtanas were some of those types? I know of people who were raised in Europe but yet keep up their culture and religion, but there are also people who lose it all as soon as they set a foot in West. Who knows, maybe those girls are thinking the 'Western way' and they were raised in a way it's normal for them having a boyfriend? They do not represent every single Pukhtana on earth and nor do those women who never date represent all Pukhtanas on earth. They might be type of people who don't know enough about Islam and Pakhtunwali and therefore aren't bothered either, but there are also women who don't date because they know about Islam and Pakhtunwali. Knowledge can make a huge difference, if their own parents weren't bothered in giving them the right knowledge then who are we to argue about them?

Oh thank God another female voice! Exactly, Shayesta. That's the thing. Modesty isn't limited to not just dating, so to say that someone who's dating cannot be modest is stupidity. That's to limit modesty to only one thing: That is, modesty ONLY means not having a boyfriend/girlfriend. I know of a couple of girls who wore full hijab, prayed five times a day, fasted during ramadhan, even performed tahajjud, studied Arabic to fully understand the Quran, etc., AND they were extreeeeeemely open with their boyfriends. Their argument was: "I'm going to marry him, and he's the only one in my life."

They ended up marrying.

I know that's not so common, but that's what Muslim girls with boyfriends think. They are convinced that they'll end up marrying, and if they're smart and careful, then they WILL end up marrying. They might have to wait forever, but sometimes the wait is worth it.

Those are the kinds of girls I'm talking about, the girls who KNOW who they are and what their value is. I'm not talking about girls who have no sense of respect for themselves, for their families, for their religion, for their culture, for others in general, and who go around sleeping with all these random guys -- (although many Muslim guys also sleep with random girls, but that's not the point here).

Also, I don't know what makes some boys think that they know all girls too well, or that girls are exactly as they want them to be. Don't speak for us; we have our own minds. Being a husband doesn't put you in charge of other women, or doens't make you the voice of women. Let women speak for themselves. Thank you. We have seen what you haven't seen.

But ... oh, Shayesta Jaan! The same "man" who tried to prove ME wrong is gonna now say the same stuff to you about how a person can't be modest and have a boyfriend at the same time, lol. Good luck It'd be the cycle starting all over again.

@ Swat: Bro, the feeling is absolutely mutual. You consider me intellectually dishonest, and I consider you even more intellectually dishonest -- mostly since you kept screaming for attention but got nowhere with it AND also because you never actually proved HOW that was a contradiction to begin with. I hope you don't care about what I think of you as much as I don't care what you think of me.

[Roshina]

@ Swat: Please refer to my signature below in response.

Manana.

[Pukhtoon007]

qrratugai he wasnt the onli person that read your posts come on how long r u gna drag this before u concede

[Roshina]

qrratugai he wasnt the onli person that read your posts come on how long r u gna drag this before u concede

Concede to what?
I'm not dragging anything. I'm just saying that modesty isn't limited to just ONE aspect of life.

[Roshina]

Oh, and if you're still interested, please refer to Shayesta's post, who said exactly what I said, only she said it far better than I could. Here it is, to get you started:

I have seen enough Europeans who are quiet modest and very respectful as well, but when it comes to having a boyfriend, it's very normal for them and they go out with guys very openly.

She went on to explain more, so be sure to read the rest as well.

And, clearly, the gender of the reader and speaker matters a lot. I always believed that, but now it's more than confirmed -- not that it needed confirmation, but still.

[Pukhtoon007]

that myt be correct maybe for western culture but not pukhtoonwali or islam. because our view on modesty or our definition of modesty is different to other cultures and religions, a girl with a bf is not considered modest in islam or pukhtoonwali. just remember that ur target audience here are pukhtoons and they are muslim.