Define A True Pukhtun

[sgulab]

Sgulab, all jokes aside; how do you idealize a Pashtoon male; perhaps that is a good start at arriving at a definition.

I do agree with you; there should be expectations and ideals of manhood and womanhood.

ahhaha so your a true pushtun. I bet you are

hmm well when I think of pushtun men I think of warriors. Honor is one of the first things that come to mind. I dont really have an exact definition. As I stated before.

[Pakhtunzai]

Based on my great grandfather, he never hurt anyone outside, had a really sweet and honourable personality, hard worker, hospitable and strong. My family still cry about him, goes to show how much of a positive impact he had on us.

[Gulbabo]

Based on my great grandfather, he never hurt anyone outside, had a really sweet and honourable personality, hard worker, hospitable and strong. My family still cry about him, goes to show how much of a positive impact he had on us.

thats very nice to hear. thank you for sharing this with us...

[Alchemist]

I don't think a real Afghan would survive in modern times.

The afghan men of the olden golden days lived by their word. Ready to die for the good cause without hesitation or doubt. This Afghan was always ready to chop of his own arm or ear off for his brother if he asked for it. If they loved, they loved passionately and if they hated, just as passionately. And all this from his sense of being a man, centred about himself, heavy enough to have the world gravitate towards him and fearing nothing and no one other except The Almighty.

[Pakhtunzai]

thats very nice to hear. thank you for sharing this with us...

Harkala, I didn't know him myself, although I really wish I did....

Alchemist wrora, so true..the good old days eh, sad to see the people of nowadays..

[sgulab]

I don't think a real Afghan would survive in modern times.

The afghan men of the olden golden days lived by their word. Ready to die for the good cause without hesitation or doubt. This Afghan was always ready to chop of his own arm or ear off for his brother if he asked for it. If they loved, they loved passionately and if they hated, just as passionately. And all this from his sense of being a man, centred about himself, heavy enough to have the world gravitate towards him and fearing nothing and no one other except The Almighty.

I feel like there must be SOME pushtun men out there like that. I mean if they have not yet been influenced as much by modern culture. But even then I have a feeling there are still some out there.

[Gulbabo]

I don't think a real Afghan would survive in modern times.

The afghan men of the olden golden days lived by their word. Ready to die for the good cause without hesitation or doubt. This Afghan was always ready to chop of his own arm or ear off for his brother if he asked for it. If they loved, they loved passionately and if they hated, just as passionately. And all this from his sense of being a man, centred about himself, heavy enough to have the world gravitate towards him and fearing nothing and no one other except The Almighty.

i have also heard afghan men in the past, majority were like u described.

I have seen a few in this modern time as well. very few... i guess a couple of them

[graveyardofempires]

I don't think a real Afghan would survive in modern times.

The afghan men of the olden golden days lived by their word. Ready to die for the good cause without hesitation or doubt. This Afghan was always ready to chop of his own arm or ear off for his brother if he asked for it. If they loved, they loved passionately and if they hated, just as passionately. And all this from his sense of being a man, centred about himself, heavy enough to have the world gravitate towards him and fearing nothing and no one other except The Almighty.

i agree with you if you are refering to karzai and other beghairath types but the fact is Afghans are stiill like that all you need to do is look closer without the shades.

the problem also remains that other try to define and portray Afghans and Afghans themselves are deprived to speak up for themselves.


so conclusion:majority Afgans are still like that and will stay that way inshaallah.

in this situation we have the likes of Gulbabo who pushes some random third party view on pukhtane especially bias to justify the war in AFG.

[IamDZJ]

someone who values being a good human being above all. if you are not a good human being then you can't be a good son, man, husband, father, brother, pashtun, afghan, muslim or anything else.
same goes for a pashtana.

[Notorious Pashtana]

There's no such thing as a True Pukhtun, the only thing that defines someone as a pukhtun or not is blood and lineage.

Characteristics my dear, are way out of sight! But for arguement sake, I agree with sgulab.

[Notorious Pashtana]

I read somewhere that pushto is one of the manliest languages on earth. So does that make the men the manliest men?

No.

[Toramana]

Hi why go far, the model or the ultimate Pashtun in the present times can be none other than our dear Nokia Apridai...Look he always talks in Pashto ...and when he talks he speaks the laguage of our dear forefathers 500-600 years back... who can be truer Pashtun ...


Alternatively, graveyardofempires can also stand that criteria...you just have to look aound folks...sar pai dair ma khogawai...

[Nokia_Apridy]

tormana Zalima sta hem Khanda shoooooooooo

[ScimitarXEdge]

ahhaha so your a true pushtun. I bet you are

hmm well when I think of pushtun men I think of warriors. Honor is one of the first things that come to mind. I dont really have an exact definition. As I stated before.

Well according to traditional Pashtun culture; I am ethnically Pashtun because my father is. But all these Contemporary European-influenced people, who may in fact be foreigners guised as Pashtuns for all I know. Claim I'm not Pashtun because my mother is Arab, and they constantly try to distance me from my Pashtun heritage by labeling me Arab, even though if these people were actually Pashtun themselves this violates Pashtun standards of patrilineal ethnology. I don't have any problem with that though since the reality is I am what I am regardless of what others say or how they try to revision the Pashtun standards. The irony is these same individuals are trying to remold Pashtun identity/values to fit into European standards even though they are diametrically opposed to Pashtun values/traditions.

Getting back to the central point. What we can draw from this is Pashtun identity is drawn from two distinct links. #1. is Genetic link; a Person can be Ethnically Pashtun; if their father is APashtun. However the idea of Ethnic links as defining Pashtun gets very messy the further back in History we go.

I'm from a Loy Qawm (macrotribe) known as Ghilzai or Ghalji. We're actually alleged to be the largest Pashtun Tribal confederacy in Afghanistan. I believe we, including all of our subtribes represent about 55% of Pashtuns in Afghanistan, I could be wrong but we are pretty large. Well the story goes that even though we're ethnically identified as Pashtuns now, our ancestors may not actually be of Pashtun origins, meaning they were not originally Pashto speakers, but adopted the language by intermarrying with Pashtuns. Supposedly our ancestors were Ghorian. Some say the Ghorians themselves may have in fact been pashtun, although this is speculative based on the idea that Ghorians spoke a native tongue different than the other regional languages. Other theories is that we were a tribe of Nomadic Turks known as the "Khaladj" (where they believe Ghalji stems from) that settled in Afghanistan and by intermarriage adopted Pashto. Ethnically speaking we really don't know a great deal about Pashtuns before the 13th Century. Most of it is speculative. Whatever it is, Pashtuns developed a patrilineal system of denoting lineage and ethnicity, known as the "zowul" system, where names like Ghilzai, Popalzai etc etc. came into usage. The Khel system is also a form of that. So the ethnic Pashtun is always patrilineal, anyone from a maternal Pashtun link is not considered Pashtun ethnically.

Then we have "Pashtun" as not just an ethnic identity; but a character trait; an identity in the form of values, principles and lifestyle. This is probably the most concrete and definitive believe it or not. As our ethnic roots are mired in mystery and mythology; the customs and practices in so far as we know of Pashtuns has remained constant for a at least 800 years, if not more. Being Pashtun as a personality is defined by moral virtues, virlity, inner strength, honor and dignity, in a way more fundamental and puritan than other societies have allotted in these terms.

Hence we find many people who are not ethnically Pashtun; but were characteristically Pashtun; and getting back to the ambiguity of Ethnogenesis of the Pashtuns; could explain why and how other types of people may have in fact became assimilated amongst Pashtuns and eventually became pashtunized. Even in Modern times we have men like Shaikh Abdullah Azzam who was by all characteristics Pashtun by traits, even though he was Palestinian. He fought the way pashtuns fought and strove for things Pashtuns valued.

Then we have people who although in my understanding may not actually be Pashtuns, like Toramana and Salahuddin and Roadrunner, but for the sake of argument claim Pashtun ethnicity. Yet are totally in contradiction to established standards of Pashtun values and lifestyle; and emulate everything which conflicts established norms of Pashtuns. If we suppose their claim of being ethnically Pashtun is true, which is doubtful. They are definitely characteristically, morally, psychologically everything the characteristics of being Pashtun are against.

[Toramana]

Well according to traditional Pashtun culture; I am ethnically Pashtun because my father is. But all these Contemporary European-influenced people, who may in fact be foreigners guised as Pashtuns for all I know. Claim I'm not Pashtun because my mother is Arab, and they constantly try to distance me from my Pashtun heritage by labeling me Arab, even though if these people were actually Pashtun themselves this violates Pashtun standards of patrilineal ethnology. I don't have any problem with that though since the reality is I am what I am regardless of what others say or how they try to revision the Pashtun standards. The irony is these same individuals are trying to remold Pashtun identity/values to fit into European standards even though they are diametrically opposed to Pashtun values/traditions....

Apart from a non-Pashtun maternal link, there are other things that place you apart from Pashtuns e.g. you have almost no knowledge of Pashtun culture, politics, and society. Your command of Pashto language can also at best be considered rudimentary. Besides, I believe, and as apparent from your avatar, you seem more Arab looking than a Pashtun looking guy (Pashtuns have sharp features esp noses).

Like if someone would see me, he/she would instantly recognize me as a Pashtun from my language, mannerism, patriotism, looks, etc.