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Define A True Pukhtun

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View Post
    Well according to traditional Pashtun culture; I am ethnically Pashtun because my father is. But all these Contemporary European-influenced people, who may in fact be foreigners guised as Pashtuns for all I know. Claim I'm not Pashtun because my mother is Arab, and they constantly try to distance me from my Pashtun heritage by labeling me Arab, even though if these people were actually Pashtun themselves this violates Pashtun standards of patrilineal ethnology. I don't have any problem with that though since the reality is I am what I am regardless of what others say or how they try to revision the Pashtun standards. The irony is these same individuals are trying to remold Pashtun identity/values to fit into European standards even though they are diametrically opposed to Pashtun values/traditions.

    Getting back to the central point. What we can draw from this is Pashtun identity is drawn from two distinct links. #1. is Genetic link; a Person can be Ethnically Pashtun; if their father is APashtun. However the idea of Ethnic links as defining Pashtun gets very messy the further back in History we go.

    I'm from a Loy Qawm (macrotribe) known as Ghilzai or Ghalji. We're actually alleged to be the largest Pashtun Tribal confederacy in Afghanistan. I believe we, including all of our subtribes represent about 55% of Pashtuns in Afghanistan, I could be wrong but we are pretty large. Well the story goes that even though we're ethnically identified as Pashtuns now, our ancestors may not actually be of Pashtun origins, meaning they were not originally Pashto speakers, but adopted the language by intermarrying with Pashtuns. Supposedly our ancestors were Ghorian. Some say the Ghorians themselves may have in fact been pashtun, although this is speculative based on the idea that Ghorians spoke a native tongue different than the other regional languages. Other theories is that we were a tribe of Nomadic Turks known as the "Khaladj" (where they believe Ghalji stems from) that settled in Afghanistan and by intermarriage adopted Pashto. Ethnically speaking we really don't know a great deal about Pashtuns before the 13th Century. Most of it is speculative. Whatever it is, Pashtuns developed a patrilineal system of denoting lineage and ethnicity, known as the "zowul" system, where names like Ghilzai, Popalzai etc etc. came into usage. The Khel system is also a form of that. So the ethnic Pashtun is always patrilineal, anyone from a maternal Pashtun link is not considered Pashtun ethnically.

    Then we have "Pashtun" as not just an ethnic identity; but a character trait; an identity in the form of values, principles and lifestyle. This is probably the most concrete and definitive believe it or not. As our ethnic roots are mired in mystery and mythology; the customs and practices in so far as we know of Pashtuns has remained constant for a at least 800 years, if not more. Being Pashtun as a personality is defined by moral virtues, virlity, inner strength, honor and dignity, in a way more fundamental and puritan than other societies have allotted in these terms.

    Hence we find many people who are not ethnically Pashtun; but were characteristically Pashtun; and getting back to the ambiguity of Ethnogenesis of the Pashtuns; could explain why and how other types of people may have in fact became assimilated amongst Pashtuns and eventually became pashtunized. Even in Modern times we have men like Shaikh Abdullah Azzam who was by all characteristics Pashtun by traits, even though he was Palestinian. He fought the way pashtuns fought and strove for things Pashtuns valued.

    Then we have people who although in my understanding may not actually be Pashtuns, like Toramana and Salahuddin and Roadrunner, but for the sake of argument claim Pashtun ethnicity. Yet are totally in contradiction to established standards of Pashtun values and lifestyle; and emulate everything which conflicts established norms of Pashtuns. If we suppose their claim of being ethnically Pashtun is true, which is doubtful. They are definitely characteristically, morally, psychologically everything the characteristics of being Pashtun are against.
    WOW. I did not know that. It was quite informative to tell you the least. But I do agree with you when you say that someone can be characteristically pushtun but not ethnically and vice- versa.

    So your like half arab and half pushtun? Thats awesome.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Nangialai Pashtana View Post
      No.

      Why not?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Toramana View Post
        Apart from a non-Pashtun maternal link, there are other things that place you apart from Pashtuns e.g. you have almost no knowledge of Pashtun culture, politics, and society. Your command of Pashto language can also at best be considered rudimentary. Besides, I believe, and as apparent from your avatar, you seem more Arab looking than a Pashtun looking guy (Pashtuns have sharp features esp noses).

        Like if someone would see me, he/she would instantly recognize me as a Pashtun from my language, mannerism, patriotism, looks, etc.
        Your response just reinforces my point; you forget Pashtun ethnicity is patrilineal; this is a unanimous cultural standard, there's no revision of this. Yet you keep using a totally European style concept.

        The fact you claimed that Indo-Prakrit speaking peoples of Gandhara were actually Ancient Pashtuns, regardless of how lineally unrelated Pashto is to Prakrit; is clear evidence of who here is lacking in knowledge.;

        everything you idealize; from Secularism, to your clearly European-modeled Pseudo Humanist-Immoral ideals to your vision of society are completely against the known established norms of Pashtuns. That alone brings into question your credibility. As for looks and all this stuff; these are childish debates. Everyone knows that Pashtuns are not all of one racial or ethnic origin. But regardless, even if we suppose your claim of being Ethnically Pashtun is true; you're from an area which Pashtuns and migrated to and conquered over the local peoples; who were Ancient Gandharans, an Indic peoples. All this would lead to the conclusion you're of Indic Origins rather than Pashtun, since Pashtuns originate from the Mountains of Ghor, later settling in Takht-e-Sulaiman and later Swat and Peshawar. Ethnically speaking, if we take your claim of being ethnically Pashtun is true, then You're a Pashtunized Hindi at best; explains why you want to return to Gandhara so much.
        Last edited by ScimitarXEdge; 04-03-2011, 04:11 PM.

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        • #34


          I guess according to Toramana, Asfandyar should not be his leader, since his nose is not sharp.



          Here's Toramana's new sharp nosed candidate for Ethnic Pashtun Nationalist leader.
          Last edited by ScimitarXEdge; 04-03-2011, 04:09 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by sgulab View Post
            Why not?
            Well, women speak Pashto as well, doesn't make us manly now does it?

            or does it?
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives

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            • #36
              lol thats true. I mean any language can sound manly or feminine based on whose speaking it and how its being spoken. But I was just stating someone elses opinion. I guess its all the "kha" sounds lol. Oh yeah- and the fact that when most of world thinks of pushtuns one of the first things that comes to mind is the AK-47 lol.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by sgulab View Post
                Oh yeah- and the fact that when most of world thinks of pushtuns one of the first things that comes to mind is the AK-47 lol.
                and a shuttlecock when they think of a pukhtana
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives

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