Pashtun women meeting Pashtun men and vice-versa.

[emkhan]

Slavery of women in West? No, seriously, slavery of women in West? And that also compared to lives of women back home? I can't believe you are not even being sarcastic........

Ofcourse they are slaves of men and slaves of the system.
The men and system have made them even forced them to whatever the men wish them to do.
But stupid woman would never understand

[Alchemist]

Slavery of women in West? No, seriously, slavery of women in West? And that also compared to lives of women back home? I can't believe you are not even being sarcastic........

women back home are mostly war widows so is that a fair comparison to make?

What's even more backward is the growing insecurity in men who will go to the extend of calling Pukhtanas who prefer the Western lifestyle 'dancers', and then tell others 'not to target' the lifestyle they prefer in a woman.

He is calling a spade, a spade.
The average western girl sleeps with 5 different men in her life time. That is because they live in a party culture where it is common for girls to get drunk and dance at bars.
OK.

Excuse the interference here, but who are you to tell a woman how much of a woman she really is? Have we women ever tried to tell you men what ways you should accept and what you shouldn't? God made you a man, work on that. He made us women, leave ours on us.

Yeah, I have a woman telling me how a man ought to be since the day I was born - I call her mother. We all have one.

It's even more interesting to know that most marriages back home take place by force and even at most miserable times are forced to make their marriage 'work'. Jeez, I wonder why.........?

This is bullcrap.
Not "Most" but some.
If this were true, then every one of us is growing up in a corrosive environment. If the parents don't get along then the children turn out messed up. So what you are saying is that most families back up are "not working"?
Look sister, even in the cases where the girl is "forced", it isn't necessarily the men who are doing the active work of persuasion, but it is the grandmother and aunties and the mother who play the greater role. So blame women.

And to those who constantly criticize the Western lifestyle, can you first of all define a Western lifestyle? And next to that, please also bother to explain why you got that view on Western lifestyle? I will go from there, thanks.

answer to question 1) Immoral

Answer to question 2) History and statistics - facts, reality, personal experience.

ur welcomed

[faye]

i thought you are the 'fool' now alchemist, with that avatar.
i think the fool, by tarot standards, is said to now have to take a look at himself.
your views of western or pashtun society is not from the viewpoint of being a woman so if a pashtun woman thinks their society is too strict then why is she argued against? you, on the other hand sound as though having a hold over women is right up your alley.
you only seem to see the negative and constantly 'assume' that every woman leads the negative lifestyle that you seem to concentrate on.
catya sher asked me, by pm, to gang up with her, against some women on this forum and i refused. it is not my way. i deal with people off my own back. she appears to enjoy battles between people rather than, as an elder, that i assume she is, trying to help make peace.

[Shayesta]

Consider the opposite. You are not locked up. What do you do?

No offence but have you ever heard of the words 'respect, maturity and sense'?; Because you lack all of them? Nonetheless, lemme answer your questions;

I have never been locked up, why? Because my mother worked damn hard so we don't live the life she lived and to give us the life we are living now, and I am proud of it. I want to make her proud of me and prove to her that her tears and sweat haven't gone in vein. I have known my limits, and I have got all the trust from my entire family which is all I need in life.

I study, why? Because that's my mother's wish and because I want to earn in future and stand on my own feet. God gave me this opportunity, why should I waste it? I am not harming anyone by getting educated (maybe some men's insecurity), plus I will be satisfied that may I face any hardship where I have to make a living, I won't be dependent on anyone.

I work, why? Because ever since I was 13 I have been the only one earning in our household. My mother was too ill, sister too young, and male family members too careless. I had to fill our stomachs with those very little money I used to earned, and I don't want to live that very same miserable life ever again. By earning more I have to support those relatives back home who raised me like their child but got no one to take of them; They are women who lost their husbands and sons in war, and brothers went missing since decades. For that, I would have to make a career so I can help them build their own home and for that, I would have to study. See the connection?

I am by the way already married and my husband has got his poor family back home to support and I ain't a gold-digger to leave him for the sake of money, nor am I that cheap to ignore his duty and will. I could divorce him for not being able to feed his poor family, me and keeping up to Western lifestyle, but I am sure even Allah Subhana Wa Tallah will prefer a working wife over a greedy disloyal partner. Same-wise, answer me why Bibi Khadija was the more educated one and better earning one amongst her and Paighambar Mohammad SAW (P.B.U.H.)?

Other than that, I wear hijaab, never wear make-up outside, never responded to any random man trying to speak to me, nor ever been to restaurants with my friends. I speak to them in college and they come to our house at times, that's enough for me. And it's not my fault that these days Afghan/Muslim men are more keen to hit on hijabi girls rather than non-hijabis, which again proves for some men a word called 'cure' doesn't exist. And you are right, toy is not a right word for type of women you prefer. It would be more like a living corpse; Live, but nor according to yourself.

[Alchemist]

No offence but have you ever heard of the words 'respect, maturity and sense'?; Because you lack all of them? Nonetheless, lemme answer your questions;

I have never been locked up, why? Because my mother worked damn hard so we don't live the life she lived and to give us the life we are living now, and I am proud of it. I want to make her proud of me and prove to her that her tears and sweat haven't gone in vein. I have known my limits, and I have got all the trust from my entire family which is all I need in life.

I study, why? Because that's my mother's wish and because I want to earn in future and stand on my own feet. God gave me this opportunity, why should I waste it? I am not harming anyone by getting educated (maybe some men's insecurity), plus I will be satisfied that may I face any hardship where I have to make a living, I won't be dependent on anyone.

I work, why? Because ever since I was 13 I have been the only one earning in our household. My mother was too ill, sister too young, and male family members too careless. I had to fill our stomachs with those very little money I used to earned, and I don't want to live that very same miserable life ever again. By earning more I have to support those relatives back home who raised me like their child but got no one to take of them; They are women who lost their husbands and sons in war, and brothers went missing since decades. For that, I would have to make a career so I can help them build their own home and for that, I would have to study. See the connection?

I am by the way already married and my husband has got his poor family back home to support and I ain't a gold-digger to leave him for the sake of money, nor am I that cheap to ignore his duty and will. I could divorce him for not being able to feed his poor family, me and keeping up to Western lifestyle, but I am sure even Allah Subhana Wa Tallah will prefer a working wife over a greedy disloyal partner. Same-wise, answer me why Bibi Khadija was the more educated one and better earning one amongst her and Paighambar Mohammad SAW (P.B.U.H.)?

Other than that, I wear hijaab, never wear make-up outside, never responded to any random man trying to speak to me, nor ever been to restaurants with my friends. I speak to them in college and they come to our house at times, that's enough for me. And it's not my fault that these days Afghan/Muslim men are more keen to hit on hijabi girls rather than non-hijabis, which again proves for some men a word called 'cure' doesn't exist. And you are right, toy is not a right word for type of women you prefer. It would be more like a living corpse; Live, but nor according to yourself.

LOL

sister,

do you notice how you have proven me right?

If pashtun women are locked, then why are not locked up? Obviously you are not locked up and pashtun culture is not strict. Because if this was the case then you wouldn't have done all that! So basically, you are going by a cliche that you are the exception to the rule and that other women aren't like you. But the fact is that most women have been just as free as you have been in your life! That includes my mother too. She was a mid wife nurse in Kabul and she supported her own family like how you are doing your own.

But when you come on a public forum and make general statements about the lot of people, "back home" or otherwise, you are talking about a people who yourself don't share an experience with.

Same-wise, answer me why Bibi Khadija was the more educated one and better earning one amongst her and Paighambar Mohammad SAW (P.B.U.H.)?

But Bibi Khadija (may allah shower her with mercy and blessing) wasn't chosen as Paighombar. So think about that.
Also Bibi Khadija got most of her wealth from her deceased husbands...she became a business woman out of necessity like you. Not because she wanted to.
Wisdom does not equal to Education. So your analogy here is totally out of context.

Also Education does not guarantee a job. Nor will it guarantee you the ability to help the destitute of Afghanistan.


In any case... you have a lot more in common with Kakargirl. So I don't know why you had to admonish her for expressing ideals that are EXACTLY like yours!


Hope roshina reads that...because she was saying not all pashtanas are like kakar girl.

Salam : )

[faye]

nothing like a good man apoligising for his negative projections.

[Alchemist]

nothing like a good man apoligising for his negative projections.

faye

I am not apologizing for anything.

those projections are true.

Her position was false.

Don't get it twisted granma.

[Catya Sher]

faye,

you are on some strange agenda to discredit me.

It was YOU who started the subject of how out of line Such and Such member
was.
But you sounded not tough enough to speak out, perhaps as a new member
you were insecure, I assumed.
I therefore offered, to make it easier for YOU, to speak first and then you could provide back up, as no one was defending Unknown Prince.
It was he who was under attack.

You are TWISTING my reply into something else.
I thought you were not up to good moral standards by your own account of traveling in Kandahar.

Despite that, I overlooked my doubts about your character to reach out to you when there was the Australian cyclone.
Did you appreciate that? I doubt any other members thought of you.
If so, FEW connected you with that disaster.

I also defended you another time about being shown respect.

You pestered ME when I didn't reply immediately to a question about my
time in Hunza.

I see you are SLY, popping out with mean statements, and neglecting
to mention that i had tried to be kind and encouraging to you.
Please stay away from me.

[faye]

backpeddle if you want catya, it is your perogative.
that's ok fool, everyone is able to see what you said.

[IamDZJ]

FAYE AND KUTYA SHER YOU TWO ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT...

[faye]

and your not?

[Shayesta]

The average western girl sleeps with 5 different men in her life time. That is because they live in a party culture where it is common for girls to get drunk and dance at bars.

Isn't in Muslim countries way worse than this happening? Dancers of Saudi? Bachabazi in Afghanistan? Women being sold/bought? Forget the girls in West, how loyal are the men in Islamic countries?

Yeah, I have a woman telling me how a man ought to be since the day I was born - I call her mother. We all have one.

And this is the mentality you have been brought up with?; Western girls are cheap, disloyal, culture-less, etcetera? I guess you are right, a woman's enemy is a woman indeed.

If the parents don't get along then the children turn out messed up. So what you are saying is that most families back up are "not working"?

None in our older generation was happy with their marriages, yet they got very well mannered children. People learn to act in front of others, regardless their problems.

Immoral. History and statistics - facts, reality, personal experience.

So it's a fact that West is a immoral place to live at? I guess it's also a fact all Muslims are terrorists, all Pukhtoons are Taliban, all Tajiks are bachabazan and all white people are racists; After all, you got history, statistics and personal experiences for these events as well, init? Generalisation is a huge illness, let's get rid of it as soon as we can please.

If pashtun women are locked, then why are not locked up? Obviously you are not locked up and pashtun culture is not strict.

It was you who came up with comparing women locked up and women out there 'in the open', not me. If with Pukhtoon culture you mean Pakhtunwali, I think we both know how 'not strict' it is. Nonetheless, if it wasn't for my mother, God knows what life I would have lived now. My mother and aunts went through hell and they did everything they could to prevent same life to their daughters, and Alhamdulillah succeeded. It's a deep story out there, let's keep it so.

She was a mid wife nurse in Kabul and she supported her own family like how you are doing your own.

And yet you criticized working women........?

But when you come on a public forum and make general statements about the lot of people, "back home" or otherwise, you are talking about a people who yourself don't share an experience with.

I do, that's why I am speaking about it. You yourself said you men ain't listeners, so how do you as a man know what life a woman back home lives? Have you spoken to her? Have you listened to their stories? I have, that's why I am grateful to the position I am at today. Forget women back home, I even talking about the misery my own relatives went through, and some of still going through. I know very, very well what I am talking about.

But Bibi Khadija (may allah shower her with mercy and blessing) wasn't chosen as Paighombar. So think about that.

I know she wasn't, but she was Paighambar's wife and our Paighambar could have rejected her for the very same reasons you named (working for make-up, study to get attention, etcetera) in your previous message, which he didn't. Which proves right there that there is nothing wrong with studying and working women.

Also Bibi Khadija got most of her wealth from her deceased husbands...she became a business woman out of necessity like you. Not because she wanted to.

And that need can overcome any woman any day, therefore there is nothing wrong in studying now and securing your future just in case.

Wisdom does not equal to Education. So your analogy here is totally out of context.

It might not always, I will nonetheless be surprised if for example someone who read a Quran-e-Sharif knows less than someone who isn't capable of reading it.

Also Education does not guarantee a job. Nor will it guarantee you the ability to help the destitute of Afghanistan.

Nor does illiteracy, so what's wrong with taking your chance with education just in case? Especially when you got the opportunity for it?

In any case... you have a lot more in common with Kakargirl. So I don't know why you had to admonish her for expressing ideals that are EXACTLY like yours!

I never disagreed with Kakar, didn't even argue with her. I just pointed out one small point which had nothing to do with her lifestyle, at all. But that's between me and her, she can question me if any misunderstandings are there.

Hope roshina reads that...because she was saying not all pashtanas are like kakar girl.

You guys are being too harsh on Roshina. Though she can defend herself perfectly well, even she has got an opinion and she could have faked everything and go with the flow, but she isn't a farce. Let her speak her mind, just like how she doesn't call anyone by names for disagreeing with her, I don't understand why others who disagree with her can't show the same level of decency?

[IamDZJ]

and your not?

tsk tsk tsk...i will be kind enough to provide you with a little distraction from the sorry state that your pal just abandoned you in by offering you the opportunity to remind me of all those things that make me embarrassing. be my guest sweetheart... be creative, i fell very generous tonight.

[faye]

what pal, what abandonment, what sorry state? your generosity is overwhelming. are you okay?

[IamDZJ]

what pal, what abandonment, what sorry state? your generosity is overwhelming. are you okay?

the exposure of "the plan"
now tell me how i am embarrassing