Pashtun women meeting Pashtun men and vice-versa.

[faye]

Consider the opposite.
You are not locked up.
What do you do?
You wear your tight pants and do your hair and make up for 2 hours in the bathroom. Then you leave the house and go do what? Study? For what? For the sake of Allah? For getting a career? For what? To make money? Why? Because you have to pay for the tight pants and the make up? For what? So that strangers on the streets would check you out? So that you and your girlfriends can go out and eat at restaurants and "enjoy life"? Seriously. Do you take me for a fool sister? How many times in a day do you get hit on? Answer me honestly! The average girl gets hit on at least 2 times a day..depending on how hot you are. If you are really hot, you'd get hit on 10 times a day. Is that what you want freedom for? Pathetic.
Instead of this "lock up" business, why don't you just get married so your husband would pay your bills and take you out for dinner. Then if he is not treating you good enough...divorce him! You have the full backing of Allah to ditch his sorry ass if he can't satisfy you, be it financial or otherwise!
So all this b.s about getting "locked up" like Rapunzel, getting mistreated like cinderella and missing out on the Prince's party..save it for your mamma. It's called "Kokh" in my farsi.




If you are not a toy, then don't act like one. Don't get dolled up like a barbie. Toys get used. You want to be a puppet of the materialistic world put up by Coach and channel no 5 and mtv...fine.

How do you want to be treated anyway? Like a man? Trust me sister - grass is always greener on the other side.



Oh you don't want to have children? You want to wear man pants and do manly things? Confused much?
What is your biggest wish anyway? Being Miss Universe? Enjoying Life? Getting a useless diploma for name's sake? Huh? We got our self another rebel here eh...





Oh wait a minute.
Are you a muslima? Because if you are not, then ignore everything I said sister. If you want to "live life" then by all means...go sense every sensation out there. I don't blame you in that case. If you think like that...if you think "Oh we only live once, so might as well try everything once" then go ahead. You want to chase the illusions of this world...run free

Just a brotherly heads up - it is just a mirage.

a whole bunch of negative assumptions projected onto a muslim woman. is this what is considered the honour of pashtuns? you need to stop studying black magic and study mohammads words, alchemist.

[Fahd]

The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."

[faye]

the biggest problem to man is himself.

[Zahed]

those who speak of ghayrat should take a very close look at theselves first. a woman isnt born for a man's ghayrat, I 've seen enuf women with more ghayrat than men. a man doesnt become baghayrat be deciding a woman's life, he's called baghayrat if he can keep his false pride aside 'n corporates with women. a man doesnt become baghayrat by locking his women, he's baghayrat if he's man enuf to trust his women more than dirt in our society who's used to talk shet. a man isnt baghayrat if he tells a woman how to live in order to keep away evil eyes, he's baghayrat if he can destroy the evil eye instead which makes a woman's life miserable. I'm a male myself 'n 100000% agree with Shayesta. there's a limit to everything, even disgusting thoughts which most of the "men" here 've crossed. well done!!!

[Fahd]

^^
The Prophet peace be upon him for sedition in this decade, said people come year Khaddaat believe the false and lying to the sincere and trusted by the splitter and betrayed by the Secretary; and pronounced the Alroidp. Was said and Alroidp O Messenger of God
"The man speaks the trivial things Assembly"
"Narrated by Ibn Majah

[emkhan]

those who speak of ghayrat should take a very close look at theselves first. a woman isnt born for a man's ghayrat, I 've seen enuf women with more ghayrat than men. a man doesnt become baghayrat be deciding a woman's life, he's called baghayrat if he can keep his false pride aside 'n corporates with women. a man doesnt become baghayrat by locking his women, he's baghayrat if he's man enuf to trust his women more than dirt in our society who's used to talk shet. a man isnt baghayrat if he tells a woman how to live in order to keep away evil eyes, he's baghayrat if he can destroy the evil eye instead which makes a woman's life miserable. I'm a male myself 'n 100000% agree with Shayesta. there's a limit to everything, even disgusting thoughts which most of the "men" here 've crossed. well done!!!

I wish everyone was as pious and good as you mentioned. There would be no theft, no corruption, no adultery, no evil thoughts, no killings nothing bad.
but unfortunately it is not the case. God has created a satan with every human being. and this satan can mend the mind of anyone towards evil at anytime.
You have to follow the your creator's commandments. He has created you, your nature, your pscychy, goodwill, badwill.
so think a little

[Manzareh]

Which random dudes.... I think Peroza talked about girls meeting up. The rest are girls talking to girls about meeting up. So where did the dudes come in from?

Let's say that dudes are going to be there, how are they random? It's a meeting of a bunch of Pukhtoons from this website, it's not a blind date circus show. How is this different then meeting someone at uni, college, work, out in the park?

As for your concern that one thing might lead to another, that can happen anywhere. You might be very sure that you have locked your females in a shielded environment, but when someone has an itch to scratch they'll find a way to do it regardless. There are women who wear burkhas, and hijaabs, and are all conservative but do the nasty behind closed doors. Sometime they'll find what they need inside their own homes and neighborhood. No need to go on meetings. If there is a will, then there is a way.

You are jumping the gun cousin. I'm not big on mixed gatherings either, but let's stop here from calling the female members ****s and what not. You are imposing your own paranoia and projecting what you fear on to the lives of others.

As for what is condoned in Islam, Islam is not a prison. Muslims in the West have no choice but to find suitable partners from networking. Organizations and events like MSA etc. etc. are there to serve that purpose. Even in the masajids when some is looking for a partner to marry they do interact and get to know each other before performing nekkah.

If Pukhtoon girls and boys, can find someone to marry from these meetings, whats wrong with it? Do you prefer them to marry non-Pukhtoons, and eventually non-Muslims? Look at the pros and cons. Don't worry, the guys who will participate in these meetings, will not have a problem with girls that go to such "meetings". The understanding is mutual. I'm sure Pukhtoon girls, and guys, who go to such gatherings, wouldn't marry any girl or guy that will go beyond what our religion or culture permits. If they do, well, good for them. Like minded people, will find like minded people.

If there is a Pukhtoon guy who wants a wife that is sheltered, then obviously he won't find a partner in such a place. It is best he go back home and find one. Though don't bet on it, even back home girls and boys are finding their own spouses from "meetings" in class, work etc.

You are mixing your culture with religion here. In Islam, a mature, baligh, Muslim woman can find her self a suitable Muslim man to marry. Most of these youths are not in Pukhtoonkhwa, there isn't a network, a family, to take care of their needs.

Some Pukhtoon guys and girls I know are very cultured, conservative, but not married. Because they can't find suitable partners. It's not about looks, it's about understanding, outlook on life, career, education. I know some very pious, very religious, and very very very Pukhtoon girls who have met great Pukhtoon guys from the internet, from the web, from these websites.

Don't discourage something wonderful, because of your own fears bacha.

Wrayun, First ov all id like apoogise for the late reply as iv been away in Germany for work purposes. I want to clarify a few things. the first being how much i respect your personality and your way of explaining things, iv learnt alot from you.

now 'cousin' il explain how im not 'jumping the gun' rather youve 'grabbed the stick at the wrong end'. your assumption about me being projecting my 'fears' on people or insecurity can not be true as i have 4 brothers and no sisters, i dont have a female partner nore do i have any female cousins that live near me to be insecure or 'fear' something, if all the women around me sleep around or do whatever they want i feel 0% effected so that is unture about the part were you wrote "You are imposing your own paranoia and projecting what you fear on to the lives of others" thanks.

If you read the entire thread the girls have talked about linking up and 1 or 2 other guys have commented on this meeting up thing aswel and some other members have also asked the same question as a result of the conversations that have been spoken which confirms that my analysis. Plus i raised the question that if the girls meet up with guys would their parent be ok with it etc this was ignored, another member raised the same question before me and it was deleted. for you to turn a blind eye on the attitudes of how people have nothing against meeting up is disappointing as i thought you from everyone here would have the ability to "read between the lines" and if you do that its blatent to see what sort ov intentions are here.

"Let's say that dudes are going to be there, how are they random? It's a meeting of a bunch of Pukhtoons from this website, it's not a blind date circus show. How is this different then meeting someone at uni, college, work, out in the park?"
- Ovcourse they are random, theres loads of weirdos on the internet, for whoever is streetwise will know theres a extremley high chance of danger in meeting someone that you dont even know how they look let alone anything else. if my sister went out in a cafe to meet some pashtun guys/girls and one of the guys even spoke to her in a badway for the bigger part it would be her fault for being there in the first place and taking that risk. for a dignified 'pashtun' girl that knows the pashtun behaviour to even take that risk is stupid. and yes its the same as meeting someone at uni, college, work, out in the park and its wrong for a pashtun girl to talk to strangers for a chit chat at college,work,out in the park wether its right or wrong this is something fundemental about pashtuns and if pashtuns do this they are breaking something that is fundemental. Whether you admit it or not the biggest thing about being pashtun is the strictness of genders mixing no?? it seems for many people here being pashtun is just speaking pashto and taking part and picking/choosing parts of the culture (pashtunwali) that do not collide with the western one. if somehting is pashtun and your a pashtun and you feel noway about disregarding it or replacing it with something western and easily say "so what i live in the west its ok" then that attitude is much more detrimental and a decease for erasing pashtuns that pashtuns not marrying other pashtuns because if they do it will be pashtun by name only.

if your going to have that sort of outlook on life then why not mix into the west fully, i mean why not? why not even marry a non-pashtun? ur in the west and you dont agree with fundemal things like genders mixing or meeting genders in the park, college etc, why not abandon pashtun dress? why not abandon anything to do with being pashtun, you cant pick and choose being a pashtun, either you are or your not, simple. the same thing with being a muslim, either your a muslim or not you cant pick and choose.

with all due respect you have an extreme contradiction in your post, you speak on opposite ends. you give a long post about how its exeptable to meet up with people because "how else are they gunna meet in the west" but at the same time your not up for 'mixed gatherings' or a big fan ov it. why not then? you should be a big fan ov it because afterall youve posted so many advantages of it.

as for the "Muslims in the West have no choice but to find suitable partners from networking" part, i totally agree not that they have no choice but how its a convienent tool which can be used and not wrong at all. but theres a time a place for it all and if thats the case why take everyone for a fool and make it look like your meeting up with pashtuns to talk about "serious stuff" as one member put it. if your out to meet a spouse then good on you, but why lie? unless ovcourse your feeling guilty with your true intentions.

"Some Pukhtoon guys and girls I know are very cultured, conservative, but not married. Because they can't find suitable partners. It's not about looks, it's about understanding, outlook on life, career, education. I know some very pious, very religious, and very very very Pukhtoon girls who have met great Pukhtoon guys from the internet, from the web, from these websites."

- So is this one of those websites?

[Shayesta]

This is your problem sister. You are taking the specific and applying it to the general.

Says you; Someone who can't let go of the stick called 'generalising'?

I feel sorry for the education you have wasted your money on.

If your types feel sorry for anything at all, I guess that must be one of the most sensible things to someone else. All good.

Bachabazi and saudi princes are only a small subset of a larger population.

No it's not because I am not just talking about the warlords bachabazi, nor just the Saudi princes buying women. The first activity, very unfortunately, starts being more common in North after it was practised in some parts of South as well, while the second problem overcomes nearly every rich Arab. Now you count how many that is.

Licentuous activities, like Mardigrass or frat parties in universities or the disco/drug culture is an epidemic in the west.

I guess you never heard about Mazar? Or Lahore? Or Casablanca? Or Mashad? Forget university parties, in many parts of Mazar people even drink at weddings which ain't even segregated.

Compared to the west, the islamic countries do not flaunt immoral activities in the public sphere.

What activity are you in particular talking about which take place in West only? Nonetheless, read about the cities I already named above first.

Here in the west, small girls like hanna montana are taught to flaunt their sexuality from the age of 14.

And in Islamic countries they stay away from sex before marriage, just because they aren't informed about it? Do you believe this yourself?

Teen pregnancies rampant. Don't you watch jerry springer? Even those bacha baz and saudi womenizers do their affairs in private. They wouldn't dare do it in Public.

Whether you do it in public or private, dirt is dirt and God isn't going to be any more merciful on anyone doing something behind closed doors instead of public. And 'activities' in the open ain't always worse than those behind closed doors, trust me.

This is reality. Western girls sell them selves cheap. And even you are not aware of it apparently. So don't think that westernized girls have values. The west doesn't have values because to them "god is dead".

So because you said it, it's the reality? There are enough people in West who got a culture, value, religion and prosperous future. I got Arab and Pakistani friends, if I have to believe their stories than more disgusting lifestyle in their countries doesn't even exist. In fact, how much alive is God in a country like Iran?

So if divorce rates are high now, its simply goes to show that people have less patience with each other.

Or divorce rates are high now, because in West people don't fear 'gossips'. In Islamic countries it's always a woman's fault in divorces, at least West doesn't face the same crisis.

This is not true in my family. Certainly not true in many of the pashtun families that we have relations with either.

Go those Pukhtoon families you know speak to you about their feelings? Or just because they are friendly, smiling a bit and all makes you believe they are? Just like you know my own family isn't the entire truth, same goes to yours and those Pukhtoons 'you know'.

Take some logic courses Shayesta because your statement has none.

Look who is talking...........

This is why alcohol is legal, prostitution is legal, gay marriage is legal, pornography is legal etc etc etc.

In Islamic countries alcohol is not legal but yet many come home drunk daily. Prostitution is not legal but yet more popular there than in West. Gay marriage is not legal but yet boys are kept as toys. Pornography is not legal but yet you will find as many porn videos from Islamic countries as Western countries.

We are talking about a society were children as young as 5 years of age are taught of perverse acts such as "Fisting" in public schools.

Have a little shame and stop the damn exaggeration, seriously!

.
Whatever happened to you is your Qismat.

Right, so whatever happens to me or anyone who agrees with me is in our qesmat, but whatever happens to Westerners it's their 'dirty culture'? If Muslim women face harshness in life it's in their qesmat, if the same overcomes the Westerners then it's a result of their 'dirty culture'?

And no, our culture is not "strict". You are trying to formulate your experiences into a general equation for everyone else.

Ehh? Aren't you doing exactly the same!?

If you are not saying you are locked up, then what are you? Guided by brothers and father? Well, that didn't happen to you..infact you said your brothers didn't even bother to lock you up so why would you say that to begin with? Confused much? Or has this become about your ego now?

Who are you trying to confuse, mate? And you are speaking of ego? Reread who brought up the locking up matter, reread who the ones are who supported me all the way, reread my entire 'story' as to what I said. If you understood everything, make your point only then.

Once my mother got married she stopped working. My father has ghairat.

And your mother's brothers and father who let her work didn't have any? Oh, lemme guess. She doesn't have any brothers and father.........?

Everyone goes through miseries. No one out there has lived a happy and blissful life, unless Allah willed it for them.

Oh oh, lemme guess again; Those miseries are in our qesmat!? Yaay, I knew it!

Even the Prophets, peace be upon them, went through hardship.
So what is your argument? That men make women's life hard? Really?

If everyone goes through hardship then it doesn't mean we should sit idle and wait for everything to be 'okay' and a man saves the day, no. Women are troubled because they wanna prevent hardship in the future, we are not stupid little creatures who all of a sudden decided to 'fight' against men. We struggle because we want to be heard, we want to live accordingly, we want to be treated as individuals. But once again, you won't understand all this.

Most of you women work for other men. You have a boss who tells you what to do. Khadjia was her own Boss. She was Muhamme's, peace be upon him, employer.

She worked to earn, whether she worked for herself or anyone else, she simply wanted to earn. I haven't got late husbands who left their businesses behind which I could handle myself. That's my reason exactly.

And no, she didn't go and study under strange men to gain knowledge.

Funny enough, all my mentors so far have been females. And even my bosses at work have been married couples. Whether you are educated by a strange man or a strange woman, it's fact you can't deny that education is very much necessary in this Western world.

Even khadija (ra) her previous marriages were arranged by her father.

And her last one wasn't which was her happiest marriage of all, can you tell me how that happened?

Did any of them sit there and complain "Oh my father forced me to marry...."

They were Paighambar's (P.B.U.H.) wives, especially Bibi Aisha was the chosen one and closest to our Paighambar and was said to be way too intelligent for her age.

Where is their mentality and where is yours? Where did you meet your husband before anyway? In the university?

Same could be said to you. Nonetheless, my marriage was arranged. We had never met before, nor spoken to each other, nor living in the same country.

So in essence, one does not need to be able to read, since the holy prophet peace be upon him was not able to read either. So ponder on that further.

Ponder something yourself first; Paighambar brought Allah Subhana Wa Tallaha's words with him which was put into the Quran-e-Sharif, which needs to be read by every Muslim to understand his religion. Or else we will have extremists growing daily who are brainwashed by mullahs for pettiest lies. You knew very well what my point was.

It is not farz.

Nor is delicious food, yet we do it. If it's not a farz then it's not haram either.

But then taking education has its costs too. You are probably better off learning a skill set, such as sewing beautiful dresses.

And then? I don't even like sewing dresses and I should do it for the rest of my life? If education has it's costs then the government is paying it off for me as well, there you go.

Roshina is a perfect example of what is wrong with the education system.

Pardon the 'rudeness', but why on earth are you in a 'wrong' country? People here are wrong, system is wrong, culture is wrong, lifestyle is wrong. What's right about these countries anyway? Aren't you afraid you might not be able to keep women locked up for the rest of their lives? If you do not live in West then I can't believe I wasted all these comments on someone who hasn't even lived here.

just like how you are arguing me with no clear point in mind. You keep missing the bigger picture sister.

My picture is very clear, it's you who can't admit you are arguing for your insecurity's sake and for your (false) pride's sake. And maybe, because you lack trust in others. My point is crystal clear, just like how clear your riddles are.

You got granny faye thanking you because you seem to validate her own choices in life.

Take a closer look at the members who thanked me; How old do you guess they are and will they ever have children or not? You will be surprised at number of PM's I received from many, many female members who completely agreed with me and each one of them saying 'I know exactly what you are talking about'. Now go on and guess who they are, and how many children they might have.

[Zahed]

I wish everyone was as pious and good as you mentioned. There would be no theft, no corruption, no adultery, no evil thoughts, no killings nothing bad.
but unfortunately it is not the case. God has created a satan with every human being. and this satan can mend the mind of anyone towards evil at anytime.
You have to follow the your creator's commandments. He has created you, your nature, your pscychy, goodwill, badwill.
so think a little

I doubt our creator created woman just for sake of it. women 're able be to be as independent as men, yet they 're as much dependent on us as we 're on them. we 've to match eachother, as should trust eachother equally 'n help eachother equally 'n not be ashamed of it. why should women sacrifice themselves for a man's happiness' sake??

[emkhan]

I doubt our creator created woman just for sake of it. women 're able be to be as independent as men, yet they 're as much dependent on us as we 're on them. we 've to match eachother, as should trust eachother equally 'n help eachother equally 'n not be ashamed of it. why should women sacrifice themselves for a man's happiness' sake??

Again women should not do all what men do and men should not do all what women do...
For example, women are not responsible for earning for the family. It is the men responsibility. Women should take care of the family and house.
Men should go for earning .... If you let the women go and earn then the whole system of the house will be disturbed.

[IamDZJ]

[Catya Sher]

It's the TONE of the words that comes through with some of these women posters here which makes an objective reader recoil.

This applies especially to Shayesta's angry remarks, belittling Alchemist where it is superfluous and insulting ; to Standard Pompous Darkina Rants which few members care to read as they all drone on the same way. They add little or nothing to a discussion.


Shayesta has added some interesting biographical details which help one to understand her.
But her voice conveys - true or not - that she is livid with fury at God for having put her in a less than desirable circumstance for her life.

Whereas in contrast, Alchemist when corrected, meekly says "Fine, then Shayesta should be having similar ideas to Kakargirl's".

He did not load her with deprecating adjectives.
He addressed Shayesta with the polite term of sister.
While she treats him as an obnoxious kid.

I see too much dislike of men coming through.
It makes one wary of Shayesta's ability to make a clear judgment or
a calm, balanced case the way Alchemist did.

By the way, the Fool in the Tarot was a symbol of the soul on a quest for wisdom and was not a fool in the usual sense of the word,
but sharp.

[Catya Sher]

Further, Shayesta assessment of Iran as lacking belief in God is simply crazy.
Has Shayesta traveled there?
Or traveled in great depth, let's say ?

I have, to every corner of Iran, and i can attest to a firm belief in God and awareness of the spiritual element in every Iranian I met.

Some are not keen on the Velayat-i-Faqih system, others dislike any Islamic government; there are wide differences of opinion.

But God is still placed number one everywhere in public and private life there.

Humans are seen as servants of the Divine.
Rather than as supreme arbiters of their destiny, with no need for God whatsoever, as many in the Western world are raised to feel.

That statement of Shayesta's tells the reader that she is too eager to denigrate her opponents so she sloppily hurls out unfounded statements.

[faye]

the fool card can actually mean the fool because if he is naive and not watch his step he can walk over the cliff in front of him.

[Toramana]

Hi, I am all praise for this brave lady...She is a lawyer and a councellor and says many Pashtun women in Mardan city, Kyber Pukhtunkhwa are now working in banks (in the hitherto conservative Mardan city). That is the way to go. Chains are breaking for Pashtun women.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/02/11/against-the-norms.html