Things you notice, about Pukhtoons of across

[Manzareh]

what i have noticed about pashtuns of this site in general is that we tend to be very very arrogant. i am not kidding when i say that i have never in my life met a single pashtun that acts half as stuck up as the so called pure blooded pashtuns amonst you people

Amonst you people? take your head out of the mud and take a look at yourself before you start calling us **** heads. YOU HAVE BEEN THANKED '1009' TIMES, YOU HAVE GIVEN '0' THANKS TO ANYONE HERE surely that proves how high you have your head up in the clouds that nobody out of the hundreds of active members here deserve a 'thank you' for the amount of conversations youve had here. id bet my life that about 90% of the people here at PF think of you as an arrogant stuck up person.

[IamDZJ]

Amonst you people? take your head out of the mud and take a look at yourself before you start calling us **** heads. YOU HAVE BEEN THANKED '1009' TIMES, YOU HAVE GIVEN '0' THANKS TO ANYONE HERE surely that proves how high you have your head up in the clouds that nobody out of the hundreds of active members here deserve a 'thank you' for the amount of conversations youve had here. id bet my life that about 90% of the people here at PF think of you as an arrogant stuck up person.

Dear peter pan,
Instead of cilicking on the button, i go up to people and thank them in words. I have explained this to people too many times.
I will thank you when i feel thankful not when you thank me on every pointless randome **** that i post so i can return you the favor. you have never thanked me but your fellow pfers either dont understand this or choose to ignore it. THAT IS NOT MY FAULT. I am sorry if it makes you feel jealous but there is nothing i can do about it.
I never said i m better than you guys. Different yes but not better at anything. Betterness is something that everyone strieves for. I dont want to share anything with anyone. Not even interests.
And by the way... Next time you find the need to pick on me, use the excuse of my ability to speak fluent dari to deal with your anger as that would make a lot more sense than the matter you have chosen at the moment. It would also help you sound a lot less stupid than you actually might be.
I bet the other %10 are confused, pretending or dont gave a damn about whatever it is that i am and i am perfectly alright with that. I am not here to be liked. For your opinion to matter, you have to matter first.

[Ghorzang]

OK - let me add some points as well. To be fair, I will try to add few points for both sides. Before I continue, I want to point out that I will be generalizing in here like everybody else. It is only my personal opinion and it is mostly based on what I have seen (personal experience) and to a small extent, what I have heard from others.

-- Pashtuns of KP --

- Almost everybody is proud of being Pashtun (Pathan), but they are not very nationalist. What I mean is that they are proud of the fact that they are ethnic Pashtuns (or Pathans as most of them would use), but their nationalism doesn't go too far. It is only limited to the usage of "Khan", naming everything "Khyber", some of them being proud of "Bacha Khan" and having"Pathan" origin. Obviously, there is a small minority who are excepted (Ali Khan, Osman, Mandokhail from Kyberwatch, some people of the tribal areas and so on are exception).

- The tradition of "Melmastya" has very weekend among our Pashtuns of KP compare to those of Afghanistan.

- Music: The new generation pop music has no creativity in it. They all have the same beat and style. Some artists like Rahim Shah (his current movie songs sucks though), Fiza Fayaz are exception. However, if we look at the other side, we have singers like Sediq/Tahir Shubab, Najib Haqparast, Farhad Darya, Nashenas, Shafiq Mureed and so on. They have unique songs, unique music, unique lyrics and unique styles. Not all their songs sound the same.

- A lot of people still wear the traditional partoog aw kameez, but in their special occasions, they dress up in Indian/Punjabi clothing. Even their partoog and kameez have this Punjabi blend in it. When it comes to jeans/pants/suits, they use a very similar south indian style. Even though every one dresses up in punjabi clothing, it is still very decent (not too westernized).

-- Pashtuns of Afghanistan --

- We have this superiority complex when we are comparing ourselves with our Pashtuns of KP. We feel that we are the true Pashtuns or Pashto and Pashtunwali is more alive in us than it is in Pashtuns of KP. To an extent it is true, but superiority complex is never a positive thing.

- Like others mentioned, our food, customs and traditions are very close to those of Central Asians.

- We wear very traditional clothing - that is when we do not wear western pants/jeans/suits/wedding dresses. When it comes to foreign clothing, it is very similar to that of the west - like tight jeans, long shoes and so on. In urban weddings, most of our people dress up very liberal and like one member mentioned, the ladies show way too much flesh.






-------------

I can add more points but I will stop there for now. I hope I have not offended any one. Like I mentioned, there are exceptions. Not everybody from lar aw bar has those traits. And the points I have noted under KP are mostly for the people of Peshawar and surrounding areas (excluding Quetta and pashtns of baluchistan and some tribal areas).

[Laila]

actually you're half right, But I find that extremely annoying when that's done

Qandaharis dont do it, in fact I dont know a single Qandahari who can speak Dari, I'm sure there are some, but it seems rare

Logaris and Laghmanis however, speak Dari like a bulbul

That is because every Laghmani speaks both Pashto and Dari. It is a very diverse province. in the southern and eastern areas, its Pashto. In the northern areas it is Dari. The Tajiks in my village speak only Pashto and do not even know a word of Dari. I had a very difficult time in Laghman because of the language barrier :/

And because there arent any actual high schools, boys and girls get sent to Kabul or Jalalabad for their education.

Some with the Logaris i have met, they can speak both.

[ScimitarXEdge]

That is because every Laghmani speaks both Pashto and Dari. It is a very diverse province. in the southern and eastern areas, its Pashto. In the northern areas it is Dari. The Tajiks in my village speak only Pashto and do not even know a word of Dari. I had a very difficult time in Laghman because of the language barrier :/

And because there arent any actual high schools, boys and girls get sent to Kabul or Jalalabad for their education.

Some with the Logaris i have met, they can speak both.

There's no harm in being bilingual, Most Ghaznichiyan are also Bilinguial, I am not, I'm not even that strong in Pashto, my Dari is even worse (che megi ..che megi? LOL I kid).

I just mean when Pashtuns speak to other Pashtuns in Dari, I have never seen that done except maybe with people who speak both languages. Ghaznichi people do it too.

[KhyberKhan]

I consider myself Afghan Pakhtun, but I'm going to give my assessment of both KP Pakhtuns and Pakhtuns of Afghanistan.

First KP Pakhtuns

- They tend to have very strong Indo-esque impression in their behavior patterns, I don't necessarily mean wearing shalwar kamiz; but little things, hand gestures, the way they walk, the way they pronounce words, they often bop/shake their heads when they talk, like they're rattling something in their skull. just like I see other Indian-types do.

I notice when certain forum members from that region like Toramana and Baygham transliterate Pashto, they write words like "dai" or "di" as "dhai" or "Dhee" which implicates a strong influence of Indian Phonetics, and I notice this when I hear/speak with Pakhtuns of that area in real life.

I bet if I saw Toramana and Baygham in real life, I could easily spot out their Indo-isms

- They tend to look cherub, not necessarily in a chubby way; but their faces tend to be more "baby-like", they don't have stern features that Afghan Pakhtuns tend to have

- The men behave a little bit more effeminately than Afghan Pakhtun, they're not hearty and virile like Afghan Pakhtuns tend to be

- KP Women are much more attractive, they tend to look very doe-eyed, fresh skin, nice ghanem to shidai shan spina complexion, cute noses, long coal black hair. Soft voices.

- KP women seem much more loyal and cooperative with their husbands.

- There are a higher percentage of KP Pakhtuns with degrees and educational credentials.

- They practice Islam better than Afghan Pakhtuns, but in a framework of South Asian cultural understandings. However, most KP Pakhtuns I know namaz (instead of munz) , roza, read the Qur'an. Most do not drink or do drugs, I'm sure there are exceptions I just don't meet them.

- They're more emotionally balanced, none I have met have any weird psychological issues or bizarre personality traits.

- More trusting, easy going, softer touch.

- They however also tend to be a bit more spineless, not as willing to take charge, afraid of things

- They're easily swayed and overwhelmed by ostentatious images of strength and power.

- More willing to give up and surrender.

Afghan Pakhtuns
- They're more fierce in character, much harsher. Very aggressive, short tempered.

- they're much more independent

- less penetrable to being swayed or manipulated

- Very suspicious of everyone and what everyone is up to.

- They're way more Ghairati, and fiercely protective.

- AFghan Pakhtun women tend to be really danga, A LOOOOOT of Afghan women are HUGE. My cousin is 6'2"

- Afghan Pakhtun women at least in the states often have weight issues, I dont mean a few lbs here and there, I mean ...being FAT

- AFghan Pakhtun women, also lack in looks department, they have kind of MANLY features a lot of times. That doesn't mean there are no pretty Afghan women, just not as many as in KP. Manly Jawlines plague Afghan girls.

- Afghans tend to be a bit more fair skinned in general compared to KP Pakhtuns.

- Afghan Pakhtun guys try too hard to act "Ebonically inclined"; it's obnoxious and a huge reason I don't associate with them here.

- Afghan Pakhtun guys have generally no ambitions what so ever.

- A lot of them are involved in criminal activities of some sort;

The father of a Qandahari girl I was going to marry ended up being sent to jail for drug trafficking, needless to say my parents forced me to disband from this person because this is nothing but bad news.

- Afghan Pakhtuns Gossip all the time about everyone.

- When you catch an Afghan Pakhtun doing something totally wrong and shameful they use the "Pure Heart" excuse. which we all know is total nonsense.

- Afghans hold on to their culture more, more pure aspects of Pakhtun culture like Shnai Porani during weddings is done by Afghans than with KP Pakhtuns who tend to have more punjabified attire.

- Tend to be quite psychologically dysfunctional, I lost count at how many psychos who have bipolar, manic depressive , histrionic personality disorder I have met.

- Although KP Pakhtuns seem to speak a more Urdu-esque/influenced Pakhto, MORE KP Pakhtuns speak Pakhto, than Afghan Paktuns who speak Pakhto.

Pakhtuns from Afghanistan tend to be better at speaking Dari than Pakhto.

- afghan women tend to be rude, uncooperative snotty, greedy, overestimating their worth

- Afghan men and women lack a sense of loyalty to their spouses

- they're not loving people

- Afghan Pakhtuns have a stronger sense of Pakhtun identity and stronger value for their ethnicity than KP Pakhtuns do.

- Afghan pakhtuns are some of the most caniving , vicious and treacherous people I have ever met.

- As someone already said, they have this "Master Race" psychology.

- They're so full of false pride that any dent becomes a big blow to their esteem.

I'll stop now

[KhyberKhan]

[Toramana]

[QUOTE=Ghorzang;359322]OK - let me add some points as well. To be fair, I will try to add few points for both sides. Before I continue, I want to point out that I will be generalizing in here like everybody else. It is only my personal opinion and it is mostly based on what I have seen (personal experience) and to a small extent, what I have heard from others.

-- Pashtuns of KP --

- Almost everybody is proud of being Pashtun (Pathan), but they are not very nationalist. What I mean is that they are proud of the fact that they are ethnic Pashtuns (or Pathans as most of them would use), but their nationalism doesn't go too far. It is only limited to the usage of "Khan", naming everything "Khyber", some of them being proud of "Bacha Khan" and having"Pathan" origin. Obviously, there is a small minority who are excepted (Ali Khan, Osman, Mandokhail from Kyberwatch, some people of the tribal areas and so on are exception).

- The tradition of "Melmastya" has very weekend among our Pashtuns of KP compare to those of Afghanistan.

- Music: The new generation pop music has no creativity in it. They all have the same beat and style. Some artists like Rahim Shah (his current movie songs sucks though), Fiza Fayaz are exception. However, if we look at the other side, we have singers like Sediq/Tahir Shubab, Najib Haqparast, Farhad Darya, Nashenas, Shafiq Mureed and so on. They have unique songs, unique music, unique lyrics and unique styles. Not all their songs sound the same.

- A lot of people still wear the traditional partoog aw kameez, but in their special occasions, they dress up in Indian/Punjabi clothing. Even their partoog and kameez have this Punjabi blend in it. When it comes to jeans/pants/suits, they use a very similar south indian style. Even though every one dresses up in punjabi clothing, it is still very decent (not too westernized).

Bacha tha kho munga dair kharab na kro...hahaha lesser Pashtuns....

One thing, whereas nationalism in Pashtuns of Afghanistan gets manifested at cultural level (dress, etc.in very individual things), nationalism in Pashtuns of KP gets expressed at a higher civic level (above petty tribal identities and individual egos in a more orgaized way)...And there is a reason for it i.e. of all the Pashtun areas, Peshawar valley Pashtuns are the most transformed and urbanised...

Rather, people in the entire Peshawar Valley have crossed the critical threshold of the social change necessary for a society to make a transition to the next phase of evolution ... People in KP have come out of the isolations of their villages and hamlets and have become mobalised in a way that never happened in the history of Pashtuns before...That is good thing to happen...You cannot always be a kaliwal pashtun or a rural elite switching between two modes i.e. kaliwal with that 500 yard pug when you are in your village and ultra-modern Western-style gentleman with that neck-tight tie in Kabul or Islamabad...You know what is that the sign of i.e., that is, the social change has not yet reached the wider expanse of the society and is confined to an extremely thin layer of the upper elite...

When motive forces of social change start breaking the old order and values that have kept an entire population in a stationary state for millinia and centuries and when more and more people gets exposed to modernization trends, people begin looking for new modes of social behaviour, values, and life-style that would help them adopt to the new trends...and they usually find a middle ground...What you are seeing in KP is, people are in the process of indegenising the modern influences in a way that would suit them and would be easy for them...because ordinary people can neither be the ultra-modern Pashtun elite of Islamabad or Kabul (who have to wear that 5 millions yard of pug back in their villages to maintain a link between two ways of life ---switching between two modes) or 5 million yards pug wearing kaliwal...So it is not that they are un-Pashtuns or less pashtuns ...it is that they are responding to the changes in a way they should and they feel convenient in....

As for hospitality, I will tell you a story...My nephew had gone to our native village to visit our relatives ...and this kaliwal relative of mine would not let him go out of Pashtun hospitality value...and ultimately, when he came back, he was very frustrated because he had missed something important and would tell me "that lunch that he served me can go to hell"and would call that kaliwal relative of mine a "time killer" and would avoid him later on...

Although hospitality is a good thing but within rational limits....not the old kaliwal-style (there is no more room for that...)

Wraping that long 200 yards pug around the big coprai with huge moustaches and archtypical Pashtun appearance doesn't necessarily mean Pashtun nationalism consciousness. In FATA, I have seen young clean-shaven Pashtuns (my dear friends) that are more nationalist than a Bacha Khan Zadran or Mullah Omar or Mualana Fazlo type malak that appears archtypical Pashtuns but without any self-respect to go to political agents office daily in hope of boosting his majab....Don't take me wrong ... I am not generalising....

Peshawar is still the largest Pashtun city where you hear Pashto every inch and every mile you walk (i admit with English and urdu words mixed)...the only difference is, it is more urbanized and people have more urban behaviour (and that is the way to go)....By the way, Nangarhar, Kunar, etc. people are very much like KP Pashtuns...

Rest, I agree with you that the ladies dress in Pashtuns of Afghanistan is more elegant and the food is more wholsome (i like that very much)....

And there is better music being produced in Afg now a days...that is a good thing ....only if they could go beyond folk and start singging ghazals and proper poetry....

[faye]

from being on this forum i would say 2 things but there are many. i will say...stubborn and a good sense of humour, for both sides.

[Manzareh]

Dear peter pan,
Instead of cilicking on the button, i go up to people and thank them in words. I have explained this to people too many times.
I will thank you when i feel thankful not when you thank me on every pointless randome **** that i post so i can return you the favor. you have never thanked me but your fellow pfers either dont understand this or choose to ignore it. THAT IS NOT MY FAULT. I am sorry if it makes you feel jealous but there is nothing i can do about it.
I never said i m better than you guys. Different yes but not better at anything. Betterness is something that everyone strieves for. I dont want to share anything with anyone. Not even interests.
And by the way... Next time you find the need to pick on me, use the excuse of my ability to speak fluent dari to deal with your anger as that would make a lot more sense than the matter you have chosen at the moment. It would also help you sound a lot less stupid than you actually might be.
I bet the other %10 are confused, pretending or dont gave a damn about whatever it is that i am and i am perfectly alright with that. I am not here to be liked. For your opinion to matter, you have to matter first.

Dear gothic 50 year old virgin,
so youve personally wrote 1009 posts/messages thanking people in writing? Bull-****.

If my opinion didnt matter and you wernt concerned what i think of you then you wouldnt waste your time in replying, so dont fool yourself. Anyhow im glad you realise your not better than anyone finally

[IamDZJ]

get a life football head

[Gulalai]

LOL creeperrrrrr

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

Although, I will not be to the point and digress from the topic but I will give you another categorization...

1. Greater Peshawar Valley: In this, I will include all those Pashtana that speak the hard Pashto dialect ....This includes Pashthana of

-Malakand (Swat, Shangla, Bunair, Lower Dir, Upper Dir, Malakang Agency),
-Peshawar plains: Charssada, Mardan, Sawabi, Peshawar, Noshera,
-Ningarahar subvalley: Kunar, Ningarhar, Laghman, Paktia, Paktika,
-Agencies: Momand Agency, Bajuar Agency, Khyber Agency, Orakzai Agency, and N/S WaziristanAgency,
-South plains: Bannu, Kohat, Laki Marwat, and DI Khan...
-Hazara (some parts of Hazara like Battgram etc.)...

2. Greater Kandahar-Queta Valley ...Pashthana speaking soft dialect of Pashto...

Queta, Loralai, Pshin, Qila Saifullah, Ziarat, Kandahar, Helmand, Ghazni, Farah, Orzgan, etc...

The above are the two centers of Pashtun power ....The difference of dialect is nothing...and if Arabs can have one Arab community despite the geographical separation why can't we....

Ghazni Pakhtuns speak Hard Pakhto, and more similiar to Wardak, Logar etc...Dont forget we neighbour Paktia

[Digital Malang]

Although, I will not be to the point and digress from the topic but I will give you another categorization...

1. Greater Peshawar Valley: In this, I will include all those Pashtana that speak the hard Pashto dialect ....This includes Pashthana of

-Malakand (Swat, Shangla, Bunair, Lower Dir, Upper Dir, Malakang Agency),
-Peshawar plains: Charssada, Mardan, Sawabi, Peshawar, Noshera,
-Ningarahar subvalley: Kunar, Ningarhar, Laghman, Paktia, Paktika,
-Agencies: Momand Agency, Bajuar Agency, Khyber Agency, Orakzai Agency, and N/S WaziristanAgency,
-South plains: Bannu, Kohat, Laki Marwat, and DI Khan...
-Hazara (some parts of Hazara like Battgram etc.)...

2. Greater Kandahar-Queta Valley ...Pashthana speaking soft dialect of Pashto...

Queta, Loralai, Pshin, Qila Saifullah, Ziarat, Kandahar, Helmand, Ghazni, Farah, Orzgan, etc...

The above are the two centers of Pashtun power ....The difference of dialect is nothing...and if Arabs can have one Arab community despite the geographical separation why can't we....

Correction: 70% of the Pashtuns in Paktika speak the soft dialect.

[Shayesta]

Logaris and Laghmanis however, speak Dari like a bulbul

This generation of Laghmanis is very firm on Pukhto which is also the reason why non-Pukhtoons back in Laghman are compelled to study in Pukhto only, and like Laila even I have seen Tajiks and Nurestanis converse in Pukhto more often than Dari. One thing which annoys me about older Laghmani generation is that they expect every Pukhtoon to be able to speak in Dari with a Tajik but feel offended if we ask a Tajik to speak in Pukhto. I so far haven't spoken a word of Dari with Tajiks in my family, friends or relatives who are older in age and till today's date my mum scolds me for being rude and not replying them in Dari. All I end up saying is that; 'They are as much Afghan as I am and they should be able to understand as much Pukhto as I understand Dari. I don't tell them to learn Pukhto so nor should they tell you to teach me Dari. End of discussion.'

And that's literally how our conversations regarding Pukhto-Dari end up like. I don't expect all Afghans to be able to speak both languages, but at least older generation have studied in Afghanistan, init?