Things you notice, about Pukhtoons of across

[Toramana]

I think the Pashtuns on the west of Durand Line have dilemma i.e. its two-layeredness. On the one side, you have the Persianised Pashtun elite of Kabul and (or other Pashtun elite if even from rural Afghanistan) that consider mimicking the Persian Culture to be something very high...On the other hand is the vast majority of rule Pashtuns immersed in centuries old traditions ...There is no third layer between these two that is urban or semi urban ...

Here in the West I see most of the Pashtuns of Afghanistan to be high-ups that had the proper connections or required skills/sophistication to migrate to the West....So they don't truly represent the common rural Pashtuns of Afghanistan...

In KPK, you see another impact of increasing urbanization i.e. Indiazation coming at the cost of Pashtun Culture ... KPK wallas see the Indian Culture as high to be something as the Persianized Pashtuns of Afghanistan...

The point is we have not our own urban centers insulated from the influence of neighbouring cultures to indigenise modernization and to come up with the rational and conscious synthesis of Pashtun traditions and values with foreign influences....On both sides we are kind of objects passively accepting foreign cultural standards without amalgamating it with creative interpretation of our own culture....

[Digital Malang]

^ i have an idea. why don't we move all the pAshtuns to Mars away from everyone.

[faye]

it appears to me that afghan/ pashtun culture has been interfered with so often over the centuries, that the disruption and influences from the invasions would create a lot of dilution of the cultures there and not allow the country to develop itself along it's own
standards and cultural evolution.

[Toramana]

it appears to me that afghan/ pashtun culture has been interfered with so often over the centuries, that the disruption and influences from the invasions would create a lot of dilution of the cultures there and not allow the country to develop itself along it's own
standards and cultural evolution.

That is what is my point...The successive invasion of Pashtun Land have caused huge gaps in the collective memory of Pashtun as well to see themselves in historical continuity ...Only very strong sense of unity induced by a high culture enshired in institutions and formal law can do that...True Pashtunwali unites them all but it never had any formal institutional mechanism to leave a lasting impact on it upholders as for unity is concerned...It plays a role only at social level....that too pretty localised...

[faye]

it is though, it seems, a normal evolution to absorb new things. it is a pity when it is the negatives from another culture or used as a reason to act in a superior manner.

[salahuddin]

Iv noticed that many iv come accross from Afghanistan (some that have never even been there in their life) act like they are some sort of superior human race, very arrogant and rude. not very Islamic (in London anyway)..iv noticed that pashtuns from Afghanistan bond with persian people well. I used to shaufer drive cars to weddings as a part time job whilst i was on summer holidays from University and nearly every Afghan wedding i went to which was alot was very western with the women showing alot of flesh wearing cinderella ball dresses and the men in tuxedo's/suits and completly mixed. even when i used to speak to some men i could smell alcohol.

That might have offended some of you but im telling the truth from my own observation and experiences.

No offence but you do tend to post photos of yourself with flesh showing.

So what if Afghans wear cindarellla dresses, a dress is a dress, should they prefer to wear a burqa and be in segregated audiances, thats very Un-Pashtun.

Obviously they are going to be western, they are living in the West, if they were in take for example Ridyad or Kandahar, they would have donned the burqa and men would be dancing to silence.

There is nothing wrong with showing abit of flesh, if you can not take it, then look the othe direction, or learn some visual tolarance.

Western society is very open-minded and women do tend to dress less, if you oppose this, then leave the region to somewhere more suitable for you.

Afghan Pashtuns-Tend to be abit more clerical in their lifestyle in Afghanistan. There lack of access to education and basic facilities has led to many in Afghanistan to look for god for help, which in turn makes them fall prey to Mullahs. Afghans in the West tend to be more open-minded and secular by nature.Which is great.

KP Pashtuns- Tend to be abit more secular and tolarant in dealing with issues. Abit more laid back and tend to enjoy entertainment and music. Tribal Pashtuns especially the older generations are more reserved and conservative while the younger generations are very much into technology such as mobile phones and the internet.

[graveyardofempires]

guys the intentions of this poster is bad
he wants to cause friction amongst us
just think about what makes us united.

[Feroza_Banu]

But you have to admit, it tastes good, achaar gosht...mmmmm... My mouth is all watery now.

lol i havent had achar gosht... i am sure it tastes good... i do like food with spices... i cook them some times... i learn new dishes from youtube videos and try them out... especially because my husband likes alot of chillies and masala... he is very fond of south asian food.

but for me the spicy food is only once a week at most... because of growing up on very mild spices my stomach and digestive system can't handle spices....it is very true for many Afghans .

one more interesting thing about Afghans is that we don't eat goat meat... which is alot more common amongst KP afghans (well the ones that i have met)... they eat a lot of goat... for us its "da psa ghwakha, or beef"... goat never even crosses anyone's mind...

Afghans also make the meanest palao, unbeatable. Me and my brother, not big on okra, but once we visited this Kaka of ours, man, the way they made okra, it was amazing. I didn't know it can taste like that. Then there is Batingar (Badinjan)...the only thing we know to make out of it is "bartaa", which is spicy, and batingar is all mashed up. But the way Afghans make it is in large slices, not spicy, and very rich in flavor. Another thing I notice is not much use of onions, but plenty of tomatoes.

yes i can proudly say that we make the best palaw in the entire world. i have tried many cuisines... i mean many but nothing comes close to the rice we make...

we had this indian neighbor who would literally beg us to make sure we send them rice whenever we made it.

and the tor banjan that u are talking about, its called "borani banjan" ... kandaharis are known to make it the best!...

a few more thing that we use and kp people don't is called "qroot" and "chaka"... chaka is like sour cream made of yogurt... and qoroot is made of chaka... it is commonly used in afghanistan.... and the borani banjan u are talking about, tastes the best with qroot... specially if u add some fresh chopped garlic to it...

Food like tika masala, tanori chicken, lam, kabab, naan etc. all came out of Muslims interaction with the cuisine of South Asia. People, particularly in India, are not big on meats. Some of the best lam, kabab, and other masala daar food in Karachi is owned by Afghans.

Now I'm hungry.

I agree...

if you ever get a chance inshaAllah you should visit Kabul and eat lamb seekh kabab at one of the restaurant. it literally melts in mouth... the best kabab in the entire world... i am not exagerating...

[Manzareh]

No offence but you do tend to post photos of yourself with flesh showing.

So what if Afghans wear cindarellla dresses, a dress is a dress, should they prefer to wear a burqa and be in segregated audiances, thats very Un-Pashtun.

Obviously they are going to be western, they are living in the West, if they were in take for example Ridyad or Kandahar, they would have donned the burqa and men would be dancing to silence.

There is nothing wrong with showing abit of flesh, if you can not take it, then look the othe direction, or learn some visual tolarance.

Western society is very open-minded and women do tend to dress less, if you oppose this, then leave the region to somewhere more suitable for you.

Afghan Pashtuns-Tend to be abit more clerical in their lifestyle in Afghanistan. There lack of access to education and basic facilities has led to many in Afghanistan to look for god for help, which in turn makes them fall prey to Mullahs. Afghans in the West tend to be more open-minded and secular by nature.Which is great.

KP Pashtuns- Tend to be abit more secular and tolarant in dealing with issues. Abit more laid back and tend to enjoy entertainment and music. Tribal Pashtuns especially the older generations are more reserved and conservative while the younger generations are very much into technology such as mobile phones and the internet.

I never said it was good or bad, i just wrote what i noticed.

[KhyberKhan]

Being from KPk I've noticed KPk pashtuns when asked for a price of something always talk in Urdu, like theyll say "che saw att rupay" really quickly without even thinking about pronouncing it in pashto.

Which regards to afghans I've noticed they are hard as nails. Saw an 80 year old malang from Afghanistan carrying a fridge on his back in gharma.

Also afghan female dresses look very simple and basic with the type of material almost looking plastic/ nylon. The type of adornment or attachments look very basic.

No offence to anyone, just an observation.

[graveyardofempires]

I never said it was good or bad, i just wrote what i noticed.

how much time did it take you to make that anti Afghan avatar?
you need to move to punjab buddy

[laevanay]

I find that most of the highly educated Pukhtanay come from either the Swat area or from the Swabi/Mardan/Charsadda belt. I am from Dir and many families from Dir have recently started educating their daughters further than metric which has become the norm following the Swathis, which is a good thing.... and marrying them off later.

Same goes for men, never heard a father selling land for his sons education but have seen it happen many times. One man told my father that if my son becomes educated and "successful" he will by back the land for me... talk about long term planning... the more I get to know the people of Swat the more I like them... very progressive!

[ScimitarXEdge]

I agree with Feroza qand, Afghan cooking only uses shen piyaz, tor mrech, malga and occasionally some ground pomegranate seeds, gashnez

we have more "herbs" in our food, than spices.

but I definitely love spicy food better; I find real keliwal Afghan food as being too musky flavored; I do however love my shorwah

[tor_khan]

Before we stalk to talk about the "differences" between Pakistan and Afghanistan Pashtoons, let's start on the premise that we are one.

However, one *slight* thing that I notice is the near paranoia on the part of some Pashtoons from KP on the internet with regards to Farsi. I find this odd considering that is Pashtoons from KP think that it is ok to learn and use Urdu (for all Pashtoons whether from Afghanistan or KP).

Before this splits into a political jostle of languages, let me say, I understand the position that Pashto occupies in Afghanistan; I also understand the position of Dari and I understand the tensions that come out of political importance attached either way.

In our family Farsi/Parsi/Dari etc. is not a curse word and I'm not sure how it seems to have become one amongst others. I couldn't say for sure if this attitude is shared across Swat, but no-one that I know of has a Farsi hang-up, even if I do hear from time to time comments that are tribally un-PC.

It maybe that some KP Pashtoons feel let down by the ruling families in Afghanistan who are seen to have fully "converted" to Dari language, but the truth is that Afghans have been moving in greater numbers to the Indian plains for centuries, long before the creation of the North West Frontier Province and the subsequent hand-over to Pakistan.

Which is to "worse"? To be of Pashtoon origin and Indianised or to be of Pashtoon origin and be Persianised? Which one do we overlook? Because right now, my guess is there are more Pakistani/Indian Muslims who are of Afghan origin, but culturally non-Pashtoon, than there are Farsi/Dari speaking Pashtoons. When do they "stop" being our brothers?

It disappoints me that many Pashtoons in Pakistan who represent a critical mass of sorts have never really fought for their culture or language to remain strong and are part of that largely unaware mass conversion into something that even I, with my sense of hope, don't fully recognise.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I consider myself Afghan Pakhtun, but I'm going to give my assessment of both KP Pakhtuns and Pakhtuns of Afghanistan.

First KP Pakhtuns

- They tend to have very strong Indo-esque impression in their behavior patterns, I don't necessarily mean wearing shalwar kamiz; but little things, hand gestures, the way they walk, the way they pronounce words, they often bop/shake their heads when they talk, like they're rattling something in their skull. just like I see other Indian-types do.

I notice when certain forum members from that region like Toramana and Baygham transliterate Pashto, they write words like "dai" or "di" as "dhai" or "Dhee" which implicates a strong influence of Indian Phonetics, and I notice this when I hear/speak with Pakhtuns of that area in real life.

I bet if I saw Toramana and Baygham in real life, I could easily spot out their Indo-isms

- They tend to look cherub, not necessarily in a chubby way; but their faces tend to be more "baby-like", they don't have stern features that Afghan Pakhtuns tend to have

- The men behave a little bit more effeminately than Afghan Pakhtun, they're not hearty and virile like Afghan Pakhtuns tend to be

- KP Women are much more attractive, they tend to look very doe-eyed, fresh skin, nice ghanem to shidai shan spina complexion, cute noses, long coal black hair. Soft voices.

- KP women seem much more loyal and cooperative with their husbands.

- There are a higher percentage of KP Pakhtuns with degrees and educational credentials.

- They practice Islam better than Afghan Pakhtuns, but in a framework of South Asian cultural understandings. However, most KP Pakhtuns I know namaz (instead of munz) , roza, read the Qur'an. Most do not drink or do drugs, I'm sure there are exceptions I just don't meet them.

- They're more emotionally balanced, none I have met have any weird psychological issues or bizarre personality traits.

- More trusting, easy going, softer touch.

- They however also tend to be a bit more spineless, not as willing to take charge, afraid of things

- They're easily swayed and overwhelmed by ostentatious images of strength and power.

- More willing to give up and surrender.

Afghan Pakhtuns
- They're more fierce in character, much harsher. Very aggressive, short tempered.

- they're much more independent

- less penetrable to being swayed or manipulated

- Very suspicious of everyone and what everyone is up to.

- They're way more Ghairati, and fiercely protective.

- AFghan Pakhtun women tend to be really danga, A LOOOOOT of Afghan women are HUGE. My cousin is 6'2"

- Afghan Pakhtun women at least in the states often have weight issues, I dont mean a few lbs here and there, I mean ...being FAT

- AFghan Pakhtun women, also lack in looks department, they have kind of MANLY features a lot of times. That doesn't mean there are no pretty Afghan women, just not as many as in KP. Manly Jawlines plague Afghan girls.

- Afghans tend to be a bit more fair skinned in general compared to KP Pakhtuns.

- Afghan Pakhtun guys try too hard to act "Ebonically inclined"; it's obnoxious and a huge reason I don't associate with them here.

- Afghan Pakhtun guys have generally no ambitions what so ever.

- A lot of them are involved in criminal activities of some sort;

The father of a Qandahari girl I was going to marry ended up being sent to jail for drug trafficking, needless to say my parents forced me to disband from this person because this is nothing but bad news.

- Afghan Pakhtuns Gossip all the time about everyone.

- When you catch an Afghan Pakhtun doing something totally wrong and shameful they use the "Pure Heart" excuse. which we all know is total nonsense.

- Afghans hold on to their culture more, more pure aspects of Pakhtun culture like Shnai Porani during weddings is done by Afghans than with KP Pakhtuns who tend to have more punjabified attire.

- Tend to be quite psychologically dysfunctional, I lost count at how many psychos who have bipolar, manic depressive , histrionic personality disorder I have met.

- Although KP Pakhtuns seem to speak a more Urdu-esque/influenced Pakhto, MORE KP Pakhtuns speak Pakhto, than Afghan Paktuns who speak Pakhto.

Pakhtuns from Afghanistan tend to be better at speaking Dari than Pakhto.

- afghan women tend to be rude, uncooperative snotty, greedy, overestimating their worth

- Afghan men and women lack a sense of loyalty to their spouses

- they're not loving people

- Afghan Pakhtuns have a stronger sense of Pakhtun identity and stronger value for their ethnicity than KP Pakhtuns do.

- Afghan pakhtuns are some of the most caniving , vicious and treacherous people I have ever met.

- As someone already said, they have this "Master Race" psychology.

- They're so full of false pride that any dent becomes a big blow to their esteem.

I'll stop now