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  • #31
    You're a younger man so I understand why you may not be familiar with logical constructs of debate and it's more based on passion than reason. So much of what I'm writing might go over your head so when I critique Taliban's edicts , you incorrectly perceive it as disparaging beards, or when I speak about Taliban's mushrab of Hanafiyah , you think I'm disregarding the Hanafi Mathhab. Perhaps you do understand and are making a straw man response. However, I'd like to believe you're merely doing so out of misunderstanding the content in my writing, and not intentional misrepresentation.

    To address your statements, can you find anything in my post which demonstrates a problem with Hanafiyah? Not at all.

    I specifically mentioned their "mushrab" of hanafiyah, the Deobandi approach; and yes they do in fact have the Deobandi approach, their edicts are wholly connected to the Deoband Fatawah. They picked the most extreme forms of Hanafiyah, things which more balanced mushurub (drinking streams literally, contextually referring to approaches) understood much differently. For example , pictures of moving objects are not banned in Hanafiyah, most Hanafi jurists understand that the Prophetic (saw) warnings were in context to pictures of objects which were used for worship by the Mushrikun, and they know it was dealing with that because after the idols were destroyed, Nabi(saw) allows 'Aisha (ra) to put pictures/paintings back up. However, the dictum of the Deobandi Mushrab of Hanafiyah, takes an approach more akin to Hanbalis who stress that even though this event happened, they want to avoid the potential of any regression to idol worship. Deoband Thinkers are the only Mushurub that emphasize such edicts.

    Similarly, I was not making any negation of beards, but in Islam the level of emphasis on something of that level was not as high as the Taliban made it, Nabi(saw) advised males to wear beards to distinguish themselves from the Behavior of the local mushrikun, majousiyeen and yahoudiyeen in his area; but it was not the most stressed or emphasized aspect of being Muslim. Many Muslim men did not have beards, Nabi (saw) never went around ridiculing them, in fact he only mentioned the beard thing once or twice at most.

    My point was to only use that as an EXAMPLE, of how The Taliban under clear Deobandi Influence, took lower priority aspects of Islaam and made them so stressed upon it caused great deal of interferrence with normal life. And that their focus are upon these aspects. The Taliban never had a policy on how to redevelop grain/food resources, how to regain important community services like midwives so women wouldn't die in childbirth or the children. Most of what they were doing was simply impractical.

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    • #32
      maybe i cant put it as fancy as you ,since english is my 6th language.being young or old doesnt mean you are more knowledgeable or unbiased.im talking out of my own experience and not some news channels and books written by people with no connection with the ground realities.

      go to Afghanistan and ask any random person "what is deobandi?" he will say i dont know what that is.Afghanistan is hanafi and deobandis are also sunni muslims so im not going to demonize them just cuz you dont like them.

      and if you ask people in Afghanistan if beard optional,they will say no its not optional.
      and those things you say about pictures and beards,i must say about the beard,yahuds also had beards and many still do,so are you telling me a muslim doesnt need to have a beard at all and it was ment to lable themselves as muslims?

      i do understand you , if you go live in Afghanistan and see over majority bearded men you will understand that having beard if the most normal thing.

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      • #33
        ^ will you please care to share the hadith implying that the prophet (Saw) allowed aisha to put up pictures of living things? i have never heard of this before.

        also, lets not forget that the taliban were undergoing strict sanctions and ostracizing by the UN. they already had auspices for multi-million dollars grain/rice trade deals between countries such as bangladesh and i believe it was some central asian states but the US immediately blocked such interactions and were closing down their offices internationally.
        even still, midwives, female medical doctors, medical schools for females existed and operated.

        also, there is no act made obligatory through the qur'an or sunnah which is negligible or insignificant. they are all equally important and should all be emphasized. if they ignored other fardhiyat or wajibiyat and focused on hijab, breads, and pictures alone; there would be a point but that was certainly not the case.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by graveyardofempires View Post
          ScimitarXEdge lala
          the word is lidonkay and not lidonay and you cannt use these two words together.wrund or rund means blind and leedonkay means watcher,somone who watches/sees.

          one's focus on Afghanistan should be out of justice and not nationalism so you failed at labeling things as such.

          Real Islam? shias also say the same thing,your point is?

          just because you follow fiqh which is different than almost all Afghans,maybe it means you are the one wrong and not Afghans.

          Lindonkay is a variation on Lidonay. Generally though Lindonkay may refer to a younger person, because words which end in "Kaaf Ya" tend to be dimunitions. If you want more info on this it's described in Allamah Abdul Hai Habibi's Pashto Grammar Book. Rund spelled with the letter "rarn" which is "ra" with a loop on the bottom, is can be used as an adjective with a participle noun (isma fa'il).


          That's right one's focus on anything should be out of justice; thereby my focus is not on one region but the whole world, for it would be un-just to focus on one nation alone. Focusing on one nation does denote National allegiance. I have no allegiance to any Nation, only to Islam.

          The difference is, when I say "Real Islam" it's not based on any sectarian differences, it's not stressing the importance of one sect or another. It's emphasizing the importance of Logic and Reason; which can be applied anywhere by anyone. It's emphasizing understanding the relationships of Nature to the Laws of Islam and to how human life is supposed to be accorded. I don't stress something because I want to champion a certain group, or the Ahl Al Bayt (may Allah be pleased with them) or vindicate the Sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them). Rather looking at everything analytically, with intellectual honesty and determining what suits human needs the best; since Islam isn't for Allah(swt)'s benefit it's for our own. Allah(swt) wants us to be Muslims because it's the Truest and Best state of being human. A True human is a True Muslim and vice versa.

          I don't follow a different "Fiqh"; in my Fiqh I'm Hanafi, my 'Aqidah however is different, my 'Aqidah is Ahl Al-Tawhid wal 'Adl (The People of God's Oneness and Justice), but I'm Hanafi, but I tend to derive from Syrian, Iraqi and Turkish AHnaf, rather than Indian or Pakistani as there is a tremendous amount of cultural biases because of a reactionary attitudes which occurred during the rule of Akbar that are still retained. Most Central Asian Hanafiyah have lost their original influences and have drawn from South Asian AHnaf. The purpose of this 'Aqidah" is not to support any specific sect, but to emphasize everything must be examined analytically and taking only the meritable, useful or factual criteria of all.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ScimitarXEdge View Post
            Lindonkay is a variation on Lidonay. Generally though Lindonkay may refer to a younger person, because words which end in "Kaaf Ya" tend to be dimunitions. If you want more info on this it's described in Allamah Abdul Hai Habibi's Pashto Grammar Book. Rund spelled with the letter "rarn" which is "ra" with a loop on the bottom, is can be used as an adjective with a participle noun (isma fa'il).


            That's right one's focus on anything should be out of justice; thereby my focus is not on one region but the whole world, for it would be un-just to focus on one nation alone. Focusing on one nation does denote National allegiance. I have no allegiance to any Nation, only to Islam.

            The difference is, when I say "Real Islam" it's not based on any sectarian differences, it's not stressing the importance of one sect or another. It's emphasizing the importance of Logic and Reason; which can be applied anywhere by anyone. It's emphasizing understanding the relationships of Nature to the Laws of Islam and to how human life is supposed to be accorded. I don't stress something because I want to champion a certain group, or the Ahl Al Bayt (may Allah be pleased with them) or vindicate the Sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them). Rather looking at everything analytically, with intellectual honesty and determining what suits human needs the best; since Islam isn't for Allah(swt)'s benefit it's for our own. Allah(swt) wants us to be Muslims because it's the Truest and Best state of being human. A True human is a True Muslim and vice versa.

            I don't follow a different "Fiqh"; in my Fiqh I'm Hanafi, my 'Aqidah however is different, my 'Aqidah is Ahl Al-Tawhid wal 'Adl (The People of God's Oneness and Justice), but I'm Hanafi, but I tend to derive from Syrian, Iraqi and Turkish AHnaf, rather than Indian or Pakistani as there is a tremendous amount of cultural biases because of a reactionary attitudes which occurred during the rule of Akbar that are still retained. Most Central Asian Hanafiyah have lost their original influences and have drawn from South Asian AHnaf. The purpose of this 'Aqidah" is not to support any specific sect, but to emphasize everything must be examined analytically and taking only the meritable, useful or factual criteria of all.
            like i said english is my 6th language so calm down with using of fancy words and keep it simple.

            i respect your view but dont agree with it a bit,go to Afghanistan see how people live and how they follow Islam.
            maybe that will take hose shades off your eyes and show you that in Afghanistan you will not hear people talking about being hanafi or sufi or whatever.go to jalalabad and see how people live and than come and tell me they are not genuine and what your imams been telling you was right.

            and about Pukhto ,bro i speak it all my life and i understand it as an english man understands english so to me its natural and leedonkay is the word and not leedonay.

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            • #36
              and lets not forget Afghanistan may be the only genuine muslim country since it hasnt been colonised to the point where we have British empire imams or russian empire imams.

              most muslim countries including the ones you mentioned submited themselves to the colonists who in turn ,corrupted their perception.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by babo View Post
                ^ will you please care to share the hadith implying that the prophet (Saw) allowed aisha to put up pictures of living things? i have never heard of this before.

                also, lets not forget that the taliban were undergoing strict sanctions and ostracizing by the UN. they already had auspices for multi-million dollars grain/rice trade deals between countries such as bangladesh and i believe it was some central asian states but the US immediately blocked such interactions and were closing down their offices internationally.
                even still, midwives, female medical doctors, medical schools for females existed and operated.

                also, there is no act made obligatory through the qur'an or sunnah which is negligible or insignificant. they are all equally important and should all be emphasized. if they ignored other fardhiyat or wajibiyat and focused on hijab, breads, and pictures alone; there would be a point but that was certainly not the case.

                Engaging me after you said you wouldn't?


                Anyhow the Hadith is found in Al-Tirmidhi, since I don't have a copy of it here I can't post it up, I was however using the anecdote of an example of Taliban extremism.

                As for Acts of Obligatory or Non-Obligatory nature; in Islam even within the Obligatory there are levels of emphasis, some are emphasized more strictly. Most Hanafiyah have said beard is Sunnah Mu'akkadah, not Wajib or Fard. Only Hanbalis and Hindustani/Pakistani AHnaf have made it Wajib. Most AHnaf do not, which means that the Deobandis are against the norm standard.
                Last edited by ScimitarXEdge; 02-02-2011, 01:49 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by graveyardofempires View Post
                  like i said english is my 6th language so calm down with using of fancy words and keep it simple.

                  i respect your view but dont agree with it a bit,go to Afghanistan see how people live and how they follow Islam.
                  maybe that will take hose shades off your eyes and show you that in Afghanistan you will not hear people talking about being hanafi or sufi or whatever.go to jalalabad and see how people live and than come and tell me they are not genuine and what your imams been telling you was right.

                  and about Pukhto ,bro i speak it all my life and i understand it as an english man understands english so to me its natural and leedonkay is the word and not leedonay.

                  parwah neshta wrora ta banda kanzal na kawum tanha nasiha achawum.

                  We have a misunderstanding and I wanted to correct the misperceptions regarding what I think and why I have the views that I do.

                  Being opposed to Taliban movement doesn't mean being opposed to Pakhtuns fighting against Imperialism. To me the Imperialists are enemy #1 , not just to Afghans but to humanity at large. Even to Christian, Jews, Atheists etc etc. They want us to keep living an unnatural way of life; their system should be abolished for all of our sakes, or else we'll live in a world with nothing left.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    i wanted the hadith posted so that readers of this forum will not be misguided .

                    because as far as i know, people, there is no such hadith that is deemed authentic. heck, i havn't even come across in inauthentic one of that nature. the purpose of forbidding man-made depictions of living things was not merely to avoid idol-worship-- who would worship animals on a pillow? but that it is inappropriate for mankind to attempt to depict and recreate living things as Allah (swt) alone is their Khaliq and the Perfector of creation. that is why both observant jews and muslims forbid representations of living images.

                    in christianity however, it is promoted and done very routinely.
                    Last edited by qunduz92; 02-07-2011, 10:09 PM.

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                    • #40
                      wrora ze poh yema se khabera ne da yara.
                      this is just a discussion and i also dont agree with everything what taliban did or does.
                      i dont agree with them about tv and pictures as we can see they have become more flexible nowadays and i wish that there was peace and recocialition in Afghanistan.

                      khapa kegey kho ne yara? da sta pukhto leek key se ghalatyaney dey,derta yee wewayem ka ne?

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                      • #41
                        ^ there has been no "flexibility" you mention in that regard, however.

                        media and television may be used in appropriate ways, to achieve islamic ends but it is not appropriate for them to be used for watching hindi dramas all day, skipping prayers and household/occupation related duties.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by babo View Post
                          ^ there has been no "flexibility" you mention in that regard, however.

                          media and television may be used in appropriate ways, to achieve islamic ends but it is not appropriate for them to be used for watching hindi dramas all day, skipping prayers and household/occupation related duties.
                          thats what i ment
                          you can use tv for good things such as education etc even the westerners say tv has a bad influence upon them.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by qunduz92 View Post
                            i wanted the hadith posted so that readers of this forum will not be misguided .

                            because as far as i know, people, there is no such hadith that is deemed authentic. heck, i havn't even come across in inauthentic one of that nature. the purpose of forbidding man-made depictions of living things was not merely to avoid idol-worship-- who would worship animals on a pillow? but that it is inappropriate for mankind to attempt to depict and recreate living things as Allah (swt) alone is their Khaliq and the Perfector of creation. that is why both observant jews and muslims forbid representations of living images.


                            The hubris you have despite your obsession for Hollywood.

                            as for the claim of animals and such on a pillow because it would violate Allah(swt)'s sovereignty in creation. Who would believe they can create living organisms by just drawing or depicting them? The hadith I was referring to is here.

                            A'isha (r): 'We had a curtain on which was the picture of a bird, and which every person would face upon coming in. The Prophet (s) said one day, 'Put this somewhere else, for every time I come in I remember the dunya (the world).'' (Muslim)
                            If Islam were somehow completely against images of living beings then this hadith would have advocated destroying the picture and Nabi(saw) would not advocate keeping it in another place. But alas you don't follow Logical Islam, just blind following.

                            You should really start reading the Fiqh of the matter rather than being brainwashed by Wahhabis.
                            Last edited by ScimitarXEdge; 02-07-2011, 10:56 PM. Reason: I sunk her battleship.

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                            • #44
                              All ther doing is taking a step back and forword while holding hands and going round in a circle lol
                              ----------

                              *You cannot climb the ladder of success with your hands in your pockets*

                              Originally posted by Karachi
                              like I said, there was only one reason I pretended to be pathan, for a girl, who was from Afghan forums and also registered here

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by qunduz92 View Post
                                ^ there has been no "flexibility" you mention in that regard, however.

                                media and television may be used in appropriate ways, to achieve islamic ends but it is not appropriate for them to be used for watching hindi dramas all day, skipping prayers and household/occupation related duties.

                                in fact there is plenty of "flexibility" you have no comprehension of Fiqh

                                here's your very own Salafi scholars on the issue.

                                http://web.youngmuslims.ca/online_li.../ch2s3p3-6.htm

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