Pashtun genetics?

[Karachi]

what is R1A1 ?

its a common haplogroup(dna group) between peoples from south asia and europe. This indicates at some point in time, atleast some of the ancestors of northern south asians and europeans were same at one point

[Midnight_Sun]

I think the origins of R1a1 are a lot more complicated than a simple "Elite dominance" model theory that Spencer Wells suggests, or as simple as a South Asian migration.

Obviously, at some point, nomadic horse riding nomads from the region that inhabited the Silk Road and the Steppes stretching from Eastern Europe migrated in waves across Asia.

In time, we know that many of these nomadic groups, the Saka, the Tocharians, the White Huns, the Red Huns, and other groups (Oghuz) all migrated from those northern regions above and/or adjacent to Afghanistan, and migrated southwards and eastwards.

Some absorbed the other, while others decimated the population before it, or drove them eastwards, or spread them across the lands in different directions.

[attock1881]

I know of at least 4 Pashtuns who have done a Y-DNA study, one of them being me.

Of the the 4, two were R1a1 (myself included), and two were from the J group. Would like to correlate these results with others.

I think a database can be made and quite easy for members to submit their data.

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum. In fact, it's the topic of ancestry and DNA testing that led me here.

I think you can add one more to the list. I've had mine tested with FTDNA and i'm a J2 Haplogroup. Most Pathans are said to be a J2, L, or R1 haplogroup.

I've been trying to trace my ancestry with little success. My great-grandfather is said to be a Pathan who migrated from Attock. That's about all we know about him. I'm hoping that the y-DNA testing can help narrow down his origin - by matching with another Pathan.

But for that to be possible, the database for Pathans need to be expanded.

[retro]

I think you can add one more to the list. I've had mine tested with FTDNA and i'm a J2 Haplogroup. Most Pathans are said to be a J2, L, or R1 haplogroup.

Hello Attcok

It's my understanding Pashtuns have a lot of Haplogroup J2. Whilst all Eurasian people are originally decended from India. Haplogroup J2 is Western Asian and emerged in Northern Mesopotamia. Where it is closely assoicated with the expansion of neolithic farmers. J2 is not merely a Semtic marker and it is also common amongst Indo-European Balkin populations, such as the Greeks.

Although various Turkic and Arab invaders 'displaced' Persia's Indo-Iranics R1a inhabitants southwards and eastwards. Northern Iranics have long differed ethnically to their southern cultural-linguistic brothers. Since in ancient times only the south of Persia and Anatolia where largely Western Semtic regions. The northern fertile crescent, one the other hand was under considerable Anatolian Western Indo-European and Indo-Iranic influence. It is also worth pointing out that it is in this region that the Silk Road to the East starts.

[GreenMan]

Hello Attcok

It's my understanding Pashtuns have a lot of Haplogroup J2. Whilst all Eurasian people are originally decended from India. Haplogroup J2 is Western Asian and emerged in Northern Mesopotamia. Where it is closely assoicated with the expansion of neolithic farmers. J2 is not merely a Semtic marker and it is also common amongst Indo-European Balkin populations, such as the Greeks.

Although various Turkic and Arab invaders 'displaced' Persia's Indo-Iranics R1a inhabitants southwards and eastwards. Northern Iranics have long differed ethnically to their southern cultural-linguistic brothers. Since in ancient times only the south of Persia and Anatolia where largely Western Semtic regions. The northern fertile crescent, one the other hand was under considerable Anatolian Western Indo-European and Indo-Iranic influence. It is also worth pointing out that it is in this region that the Silk Road to the East starts.

These markers can only indicate a common ancestor some 10,000 years ago so these markers cannot tell us about recent historical events even as far back as 1000 year BC.

Concerning Iran, then Iran is not a homogenous population, the eastern half has higher frequency or M17 marker (part of R1A1) where as the western part has lesser frequency of M17.

This is attributed to the fact that the vast Iranian desert prevented large scale human migration from the western part to the eastern part and vive versa and not due to conflicts.

Like I said these markers can only indicate common ancestry dated back 10,000 years so human conflicts as far back as 5000 years have had no affect on these.

[GreenMan]

Distribution of Haplogroup L ( taken from Family Tree DNA )



The group L almost has the higest peaks in what is present day Pakistan with distributions along the coastel area of indian and streteching back into Western Asia

Distribution of R1A1




The purple area towards the right covers most of Pakistan and easter part of Afghanistan and also India. R1A1 is also present in many parts of Europe also.

A Pashtun who carries the L2 markers speaks the same Pashto that a Pashtun who carries the R1A1 marker and if its Pashto and Pashtunwali that makes a person Pashtun then its impossible to group Pashtuns based on these markers.

[Midnight_Sun]

3800 year old Tarim Basin Mummies: Seven males all R1a1a

Interesting article!

"Regarding the Y chromosomal DNA analyses, the seven males identified all belonged to haplogroup R1a1a. It is most frequently found in Eastern Europe, South Asia and Siberia. In contrast, it is relatively uncommon in Middle Easterners and rare in East Asian [22-24]. It is thought to be a trace of the migration events of early Indo-European [38,39]. The presence of haplogroup R1a1a in the ancient Xiaohe people implies that the parental ancestry of the Xiaohe people originated from somewhere in Siberia or Europe, which is consistent with the origin of maternal ancestry."

Read more here:

BioMed Central | Full text | Evidence that a West-East admixed population lived in the Tarim Basin as early as the early Bronze Age

[retro]

These markers can only indicate a common ancestor some 10,000 years ago so these markers cannot tell us about recent historical events even as far back as 1000 year BC.

Concerning Iran, then Iran is not a homogenous population, the eastern half has higher frequency or M17 marker (part of R1A1) where as the western part has lesser frequency of M17.

This is attributed to the fact that the vast Iranian desert prevented large scale human migration from the western part to the eastern part and vive versa and not due to conflicts.

Like I said these markers can only indicate common ancestry dated back 10,000 years so human conflicts as far back as 5000 years have had no affect on these.

R1 is primarily associated with the postglacial expansion. Which is how for example, R1 along with Haplogroup Q (Siberian) and C3 (Mongol) crossed the bering strait and ended up in the east coast of America amongst the Amerindians of the region. The same is also true of mtDNA X, which is originally from the Middle East.

Their is no 'magic' Indo-Iranic marker as such. However it isn't a coincidence, that so many of these Haplogroup R peoples have 'Indic' cultural attributes and mythologies either.

Whilst Western and Northern Iran was subject to Turkfication (Azerbaijan) and various Central Asian, Arab and Kurdish incursions. Ancient Persia had close ties to Anatolia, the Transcaucasus, Northern Mesopotamia and even the Balkans population via the Black Sea.

Which is part of the reason why modern day Iranians like many other Western Asian/Middle Eastern peoples; exhibit, considerable Haplogroup diversity. However this does not mean that Iran isn't a homogenous nation.

[retro]

3800 year old Tarim Basin Mummies: Seven males all R1a1a

Interesting article!

"Regarding the Y chromosomal DNA analyses, the seven males identified all belonged to haplogroup R1a1a. It is most frequently found in Eastern Europe, South Asia and Siberia. In contrast, it is relatively uncommon in Middle Easterners and rare in East Asian [22-24]. It is thought to be a trace of the migration events of early Indo-European [38,39]. The presence of haplogroup R1a1a in the ancient Xiaohe people implies that the parental ancestry of the Xiaohe people originated from somewhere in Siberia or Europe, which is consistent with the origin of maternal ancestry."

Read more here:

BioMed Central | Full text | Evidence that a West-East admixed population lived in the Tarim Basin as early as the early Bronze Age

Tocharian is a early independent Indo-European branch. The Tocharians have proto-Hunnic affiliations and Tocharian script was derived from the Brahmi or similar ancient South Asian script.

The Tocharians are believed to of of been the first people to introduced Buddhism to China. It's also worth noting that the Uyghurs where not always a Turkic vassal and that they once had a Hunnic Buddhist empire.

[Karachi]

R1 is primarily associated with the postglacial expansion. Which is how for example, R1 along with Haplogroup Q (Siberian) and C3 (Mongol) crossed the bering strait and ended up in the east coast of America amongst the Amerindians of the region. The same is also true of mtDNA X, which is originally from the Middle East.

Their is no 'magic' Indo-Iranic marker as such. However it isn't a coincidence, that so many of these Haplogroup R peoples have 'Indic' cultural attributes and mythologies either.

Whilst Western and Northern Iran was subject to Turkfication (Azerbaijan) and various Central Asian, Arab and Kurdish incursions. Ancient Persia had close ties to Anatolia, the Transcaucasus, Northern Mesopotamia and even the Balkans population via the Black Sea.

Which is part of the reason why modern day Iranians like many other Western Asian/Middle Eastern peoples; exhibit, considerable Haplogroup diversity. However this does not mean that Iran isn't a homogenous nation.

what do you mean?

[Midnight_Sun]

Tocharian is a early independent Indo-European branch. The Tocharians have proto-Hunnic affiliations and Tocharian script was derived from the Brahmi or similar ancient South Asian script.

The Tocharians are believed to of of been the first people to introduced Buddhism to China. It's also worth noting that the Uyghurs where not always a Turkic vassal and that they once had a Hunnic Buddhist empire.

You mean the Kushans. I doubt the settled and civilized people of that region who spread Buddhism would consider themselves Tocharians at all. That's like a Turk calling themselves a Scythian.

[Karachi]

^ who spread buddhism in afghanistan and even central asia? Buddah himself was born in (Uttar Pardesh) India

[Midnight_Sun]

The Kushans did. Yes they were descendants of the Tocharians, but they did not consider themselves nomadic sheep herders anymore. They were a settled people.

[retro]

The Kushans did. Yes they were descendants of the Tocharians, but they did not consider themselves nomadic sheep herders anymore. They were a settled people.

Both the Tocharians and Yuezhi where displaced by the Hunnic Xiongnu and they later gave rise to the Kushan empire. It's also intresting to note that the Tocharians where Buddhists and that they had a northern Indian Brahmi script. As this script was also used to write Sanskrit manuscripts. I'd say that the Tocharians are important in terms of cultral transmission, as they where ancient silk road traders.

[retro]

That's like a Turk calling themselves a Scythian.

Not all Scythians where Caucasoid types and some of them where Uralic, Hunnic or Mongols. However the Scythians where ethnically predominantly a Northern Indo-Iranic peoples and certainly not Turkic.

Turkic peoples aren't originally from the Western Steppes but rather from Western Mongolia. The same is true of people like the Tatars. Even though most of their ancestry these days is Western Eurasian.

It's likely that the Scythians emerged in the region east of the Caspian Sea. The Black and Caspian where seemingly important ancient Indo-European centres. As the Hittites for example where not orginally from Anatolia but rather from the region to the north of the Black Sea.