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  • Linguistic Convergence between Dari and Pashto

    Linguistic Convergence between Dari and Pashto

    Language matters. The issue of how to ‘correctly’ name institutions is just one linguistic issue which has become highly politicised in post-Taleban Afghanistan. AAN guest blogger Lutz Rzehak(*) looks at these issues from the point of view of a linguist who speaks three of Afghanistan’s languages and has carried out research there for several decades. In this second part of his blog, he looks at how Afghanistan’s two main languages, Dari and Pashto, interact.

    According to the Afghan Constitution, Dari and Pashto are equal official languages but in reality they are rather unequal partners. The intended Dari-Pashto bilingualism of state officials and civil servants has never become a mass phenomenon among Dari-speakers. Dari-Pashto bilingualism is a common phenomenon in regions with a mixed population with Pashto as the local lingua franca, but it is seldom a result of successful language planning activities. Usually speakers with Pashto as their first language have a better command of Dari as their second language than vice versa. Even many Dari-speakers who have learned Pashto at school for almost ten years remain only passive speakers of Pashto.
    This imbalance can partially be explained by the fact that from the point of view of learning psychology, it is, at least at a beginner level, often easier to proceed from a more synthetic language such as Pashto to a more analytical language such as Dari than vice versa.(1) At the same time, the way Pashto was taught and the content of the Pashto courses hardly met the requirements of achieving active language skills. This remains the case today. In some cases, cultural reservations can also form a psychological obstacle to the learning of Pashto.(2)

    As a result, in many ministries and other public authorities, correspondence and accounting are held mostly or exclusively in Dari. For example, it is reported that in the Foreign Office, 95 per cent of all letters are written in Dari and that even Pashtun executives write their letters according to the Dari drafts because there are no professional secretaries in the Ministry who would be able to prepare a letter in Pashto. Even in the province of Nangarhar where the majority of the population is Pashtun, official correspondence is undertaken in Dari (Rishtīn 2011, see list of references at the end of the text).

    Dari and Pashto are also unequal partners with regard to their degrees of standardisation. Dari has a highly sophisticated and standardised official style that has been elaborated on for centuries. A standardised form of written Pashto was developed only in the second half of the 20th century but it is still lacking a unified orthography.

    Phonological differences between the Pashto dialects still result in different spellings. Thus shīdé (milk) can also appear with /ū/ in the first syllable asshūdé.(3) The perfective aspect of the verb kēdǝ́l (become) can be written both with /sh/ as shwəl and with /s/ as swəl.(4)

    Dari has a colloquial spoken standard (meʿyār-e zabān-e ʿāmiyāna) with specific phonological, morphologic-syntactical and lexicological features. It is mainly based on the (old) dialect of Kabul, promoted in the media and held in high prestige all over the country.

    By contrast, there is no spoken standard of Pashto that would be accepted all over Afghanistan. The north-eastern dialects (around Nangarhar) and the south-western dialects (around Kandahar) have developed separate standards, and smaller dialects like those of the Taṇī́, Dzādzī́ or Wazīrī́ do not belong to any of them.

    Dari and Pashto are also thought about differently. In rural areas, it is often said of a person who speaks the colloquial standard of Dari: asrī gap mēzana (‘he speaks the modern way’). In fact, in a particular context speaking asrī (modern) can express a corresponding way of living and thinking. No spoken variety of Pashto is viewed as having similar attributes. Here the attribute adjective asrī is sometimes applied to a person who uses too many English loanwords, but not to somebody who, generally, follows a particular standard.(5)

    In a society where two or more languages are used together and where bilingualism is not only an individual but a collective phenomenon, code-copying is a typical phenomenon. Code-copying means that speakers transfer lexical and grammatical features from one language to another. Most obvious are lexical copies (borrowings or loanwords), but the more stable a contact situation is and the closer two languages appear in everyday life the more such phenomena of code-copying can affect other linguistic levels like morphology, syntax, semantics and pragmatics. In such processes of code-copying, basically all languages in contact can appear as ‘giving’ or as ‘receiving’ partners, but usually the language which is more dominant in public communication (or at least in the relevant fields of communication) offers more models that are copied into the language which is less dominant in communication. Thus, code-copying often reflects a particular asymmetry of the linguistic settings.

    Besides official terms, like those which are under discussion today, only few Pashto words were incorporated into the active vocabulary of Dari-speakers in everyday communication, e.g. gadwad (‘mixed’), kezhdi(‘nomad tent’), or powanda (‘nomadic tradesmen’). Some Pashto words are used in a rather humorous way, thus for example, the adjective landai(‘short’) that sometimes is used to create a nickname like shēr-e landai(‘little Sher’). There is no Pashto influence on Dari at any other level other than vocabulary.

    On the contrary, colloquial Pashto shows the ever-increasing influence of Dari at all levels of the language. Phonological influence can be seen in the fact that initial /h/ is occasionally omitted as is regularly the case in colloquial Dari, e.g. ǝ́lta (‘there’), áġa (‘that’), alǝ́k (‘boy’), ājī́ (‘Hajji’). Numerous copies of Dari expressions can be observed in the word pool but also in morphology and syntax. Examples(6) show that Dari influence on Pashto is not a phenomenon that would be limited to persons with insufficient language awareness.

    Processes of code-copying can be interpreted as processes of linguistic convergence. On the level of spoken language and in the register of informal speech, linguistic behaviour in Afghanistan is characterised by strong processes of linguistic convergence in which Dari presents numerous models that are copied in Pashto. This shows that politically intended linguistic divergence in the more formal and official registers of language as described above goes hand in hand with processes of linguistic convergence in the less formal register of colloquial speech.

    In these processes of linguistic convergence, Dari presents much more and a wider variety of model codes that are copied into Pashto than vice versa. One can hardly deny that Dari is more dominant in public communication or at least in the perception of numerous speakers.

    Linguistic tensions between Dari and Pashto are strengthened by the fact that both languages have unequal partners outside Afghanistan. In the recent past, historical interrelations between the Dari-Persian language of Afghanistan and the Persian language as spoken in Iran, on the one hand, and Pashto of Afghanistan and Pashto of Pakistan, on the other hand, were essentially intensified due to mass migrations to neighbouring countries and due to the development of new media. In Iran, Persian has national language status and enjoys all conceivable forms of support from the authorities. It is promoted in almost all kinds of modern mass media and is even used in highly specialized fields of science and knowledge. In Pakistan, Pashto has no official status and it is not even used for primary education.(7) As a result, one can observe numerous cases of code-copying in which Iranian Persian appears as the ‘giving’ and Dari-Persian as the ‘receiving’ language. Especially in some Afghan media and in the field of commerce, one comes across numerous terms that qualify as copies of Iranian Persian. These are lexemes like rasanahā for ‘media’, nehād for ‘[political] institution’, behdāsht for ‘hygiene’ or the composite hawāpaimā-ye bedūn-e sarneshīn for ‘unmanned aerial vehicle’, ‘drone’.

    Not all words and expressions of this kind, which are offered to Dari-speakers of Afghanistan today, are perceived as something that would be really one’s own in a linguistic perspective. Nevertheless, these copies circulate the Afghan ‘linguistic market’ and some of them like rasana ‘media’ were also incorporated into the vocabulary of Pashto and some minority languages. If there is any influence of Pashto of Pakistan on the linguistic situation in Afghanistan it is restricted to the Pashto speaking community.

    This blog takes the subject (and the partial title) of a paper that the linguist Charles M. Kieffer presented to an international workshop held by the German Arbeitsgemeinschaft Afghanistan in 1982. Kieffer gave a detailed overview of the sociolinguistic situation in Afghanistan and he came to the conclusion that from a pure linguistic point of view there were no problems. On the one hand, problems arise ‘from the power relations between families, clans and tribes’ and on the other hand ‘from the necessity to provide guidance for a healthy linguistic ecology in a poly-ethnic and multilingual country’ (Kieffer 1983: 78). This statement is based on the general idea that language and social life are inextricably linked and as such, this conclusion is still acceptable some 30 years later.

    The events analysed mainly in part 1 of this blog of the recent past point to some serious problems with the linguistic ecology in the multilingual Afghan society. Today, linguistic problems arise first of all with regard to the two main languages of Afghanistan Dari and Pashto. They were caused by the ethnic dynamics of the civil war that were later enshrined in the new Constitution of 2004. A strengthened ethnic consciousness and new language awareness go hand in hand with politically intended processes of linguistic divergence in the more formal registers of language. However, the less formal registers of language are characterized by simultaneous processes of linguistic convergence in which Dari proved to be the more dominant language as compared to Pashto. The asymmetry of the linguistic setting inside Afghanistan is strengthened by intensified processes of language contact with the unequal language partners of Persian in Iran and Pashto in Pakistan.
    "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
    I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

    -Ferdowsi.

  • #2
    There are many words which are both common to Pashto and Farsi because both are Iranic languages not because one copied from the other. These words can even be found in Kurdish and other Iranian languages as well, words like baran, bam. etc can be found in almost all Iranian languages. Its true that Farsi is more developed but Pashto will catch up eventually with backing from government of Afghanistan/pakhtunkhwa and the effort of the people.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Shapur View Post
      There are many words which are both common to Pashto and Farsi because both are Iranic languages not because one copied from the other. These words can even be found in Kurdish and other Iranian languages as well, words like baran, bam. etc can be found in almost all Iranian languages. Its true that Farsi is more developed but Pashto will catch up eventually with backing from government of Afghanistan/pakhtunkhwa and the effort of the people.
      Surprisingly, Kurdi shares more in common with Pashto than Farsi with Pashto. Kurdi also uses zh, dz, tz as Pashto does. Grammer structure is also more similar to Pashto as well as pronounciation of words. Here is a clip of a Kurdi drama. Notice how it sounds like pashto from a distance



      Here are a few words in Pashto Kurdi and Farsi

      PASHTO KURDI FARSI

      Tse Naveenum Tse Nabeenum Hichi nemibinam
      Ta Ta Toh
      Rozha Rozhi Ruzeh
      Sheen Sheen
      Soor Soor Sorkh
      Pa xair raghlay Pa xair haati xosh amadid
      Speen Spee Safed
      Dzam Tzam Boro
      Saara Saara Sard/yax
      Baran Baraan Baran
      Tse Tse / Che Che/Chi
      Che/Tsok Kee Ki
      Spay Saay Sag
      Xuram Xoum
      Har Wraz Har Roz
      Ghwayee Gaayi
      Aor Aagr Aaatash
      Mashar Maastar
      Aala Aala
      Drogh Dro
      Mach Mesh
      Merra Mer
      Bawar Bawar
      Graan Graan
      Zargar Zarangar
      Khalk Khalk
      Sharam oka Sharam pka

      Because some of the Pashto-Kurdi words are not shared with Farsi, the logical conclusion would be some ancient connection between the Pashto-Kurdi
      Last edited by Dilawerkhan; 04-23-2016, 07:36 PM.

      Wa janaana dumra kho kawa
      Ma cherta pa hera yaadawa

      Comment


      • #4
        The language we speak in Kandahar and Quetta has a lot of Farsi and even Baluchi influence compared to other types of Pashto. Peshawar dialect has more Urdu in it.
        Kandahar Salaam Salaam

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Shapur View Post
          There are many words which are both common to Pashto and Farsi because both are Iranic languages not because one copied from the other. These words can even be found in Kurdish and other Iranian languages as well, words like baran, bam. etc can be found in almost all Iranian languages. Its true that Farsi is more developed but Pashto will catch up eventually with backing from government of Afghanistan/pakhtunkhwa and the effort of the people.
          Shapur, I really you man. You are always so cerebral. You are a real Pashtun. Keep it up, bro.

          Well I wish all the best for Pashtuns. I know its very hard to see how your language is falling behind. Unfortunately if you want your language to become stronger you need also a strong infrastructure that Pashto lacks of. English is a worldwide lingua franca, why? Because USA got the stronger military, politic, economic and cultural power in the world. If you want people to learn Pashto you gotta give them some of that. Otherwise no one will waste his time in order to learn an useless language.

          So far, despite all the historical government support in Afghanistan, Pashtuns have been unable to develop their own language. In the past two centuries Pashtuns have been unable to write on single attractive book for readers. Even many Pashtuns prefer Farsi over Pashto. I know plenty of Pashtuns who prefer to speak Persian and not "dagha pagah".

          You need to work harder, guys.
          "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
          I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

          -Ferdowsi.

          Comment


          • #6
            How to name Universities or: Any Linguistic Problem in Afghanistan?
            Author: Lutz Rzehak

            Language matters. The issue of what the ‘correct’ naming of an institution is, is just one of the linguistic debates that have become highly politicised in post-Taleban Afghanistan. Our guest blogger, Lutz Rzehak(*), looks at these issues from the point of view of a linguist who speaks three of Afghanistan’s languages and has carried out research there for several decades. In this first part of the blog, he looks at the naming issue and discussed how much, and how differently, language influenced identity among Dari and Pashto speakers. In a second part, to be published soon, he explores how particularly the country’s two main languages, Dari and Pashto, influence each other and presents some surprising findings.

            In October 2008, students revolted in Mazar-e Sharif demanding that the wordpōhantūn(1) be replaced with the word dāneshgāh in the (Dari) name of their university. The students objected that pōhantūnwas a ‘Pashto word’ that had been introduced into Dari-Persian by force, whereas dāneshgāh was offered as a ‘pure Persian word’ with the meaning ‘university’. Originally the entrance of the university campus had a nameplate with two names: pōhantūn-e balkh (Dari) and də balkh pōhantūn (Pashto) both meaning ‘Balkh University’. Some students hung up another nameplate next to it saying dāneshgāh-e balkh. Revolts broke out when the new nameplate was removed by the officials.
            A couple of weeks later, similar student revolts started in Kabul and during both events deaths were reported. Given the seriousness of the issue, it may not be surprising then, that no final decision has been made as to how universities should be officially named in Dari. Since that time, the Faculty of Languages and Literature of Kabul University has had no nameplate at the entrance, because the revolting students also refused the wordpōhanzai that had been previously used for ‘faculty’, on the grounds that it is a ‘Pashto word’.

            These linguistic quarrels did not remain restricted to the milieu of politicised students. The new Higher Education Act cannot pass in Parliament because it is unclear which words should be used to denote the educational institutions in the Dari text. Moreover, in the Parliament the Dari names of some academic degrees were also called into question for being of Pashto origin.(2)

            The situation forces some Dari speaking journalists to play linguistic tricks. When, for example, a professor of Kabul University appears in a TV talk show he is introduced as ostād-e dāneshgāh or ‘university professor’ in the subtitles, without specifying the name of the university.(3) In this case, the word dāneshgāh is acceptable because it denotes a university as a category or as a type of educational institution. If the name of the university was specified it would mean deciding for or against using the wordpōhantūn.

            In a multilingual society like Afghanistan, one would expect tensions to arise on a linguistic basis, particularly with regard to one of the numerous minority languages. Language planning activities were re-activated during the last decade to develop some of them. In the new constitution of 2004, Uzbek, Turkmen, Pashai, Nuristani (what, in practice, stands for Kati), Balochi and Pamiri (what, in practice, stands for Shughni) were given the status of third official languages in regions where the majority of the population speaks one of these languages. New attempts were undertaken for some of these languages. For the first time, lexicographical works on Turkmen and Balochi were published that feature the vocabulary of these languages as spoken in Afghanistan (Rāsekh-Yāldaram 1388 and Pahwāl 1386, see list of references at the end of the text). However, in modern Afghanistan even discussions regarding non-linguistic issues are often overshadowed by the tense relationship between the two main and official languages Dari and Pashto. Language is not only a tool of communication but also a symbol and a repository of power. Hence, it is evident that these tensions reflect a changing system of power.

            Conflict is a process, not a state. The historical roots of today’s quarrels about words like pōhantūn go back at least to the middle of the 20th century. In the territories(4) of modern Afghanistan, Persian has been the dominating language of culture, education and government for centuries. Along with corresponding fields of communication, Persian was used by almost everyone, no matter which ethnic group they belonged to or which language was their mother tongue. To put it another way: Persian was not identified primarily so much with a particular ethnic group, but rather with a specific culture.(5)

            The Pashtun aristocracy also regarded the Persian language as a symbol of cultural upbringing. Only during the reign of Zaher Shah (1933-1973) were language planning activities introduced for the first time to facilitate the usage of Pashto in the public sphere. These activities concerned both status planning and corpus planning.(6) Since 1933, all state officials and civil servants have been required to learn Persian and Pashto. For a certain period of time, salary bonuses were paid based on the knowledge of Pashto and, sometimes, Pashto speaking people were favoured for official positions (Kiseleva 1982: 96). In 1936, Zahir Shah declared Pashto an official language together with Persian. This status was fixed for both languages in the Constitution of 1964, with Dari (darī) for the first time being used as the official name of the Persian language of Afghanistan.

            In 1937, an organisation named paṣhtō ṭōlǝ́na (‘Pashto Society’) was founded. It made some basic decisions for the standardisation of (written) Pashto, published books and journals on Pashto language and literature and organised Pashto language courses for civil servants. Both official languages were introduced in schooling as compulsory subjects. For this, the territory of Afghanistan was divided according to the dominating local language in so-called Dari speaking and Pashto speaking regions, with either Dari or Pashto used as the medium of instruction and the other taught as a second language from the third class.

            Modernisation always requires the development of some kind of national terminology. As a result of the development of Pashto being favoured, some Pashto words were introduced into Dari, with most of them being official terms and belonging to either higher education like pōhantūn(‘university’), pōhanzai (‘faculty’), pōhānd (‘professor’), pōhanwāl (‘assistant professor’) or to the military like dagarwāl (‘Colonel’), jagran (‘Major’), tōlai(‘company’), ghūnd (‘regiment’) and others. However, as Tariq Rahman points out, the official approach remained duplicitous: the ruling elite which was Pashtun, ‘used the apparatus of the state to increase the use of its language, thus symbolising its dominance, while privately acting according to its internalised values’ (Rahman 1995: 152), in other words, favouring Dari as a more sophisticated language, with higher prestige.

            The 1990s were dominated by civil war and political chaos. The front lines often ran along borders that could be described as essentially ethnic boundaries, and the civil war took the shape of numerous ethnic wars all over the country. During the reign of the Taleban, ethnic differences were to be rejected by a very specific interpretation of Islamic order, but linguistically, there was a preferential treatment of Pashto which was mainly realized by pressure and force.

            As a result of all this confusion, the ethnic factor gained in importance to such an extent that after the fall of the Taleban, it was regarded necessary to mention the ethnic composition of the country in the Constitution of 2004. Article 4 lists numerous ethnic groups and, in doing so, declares unmistakably that national unity is not to be based upon the rejection of ethnic or linguistic differences.(7) This declaration did not only reflect the ethnic dynamics of the previous decades. By establishing an ethnic nomenclature of legal relevance it also helped strengthen these dynamics in the years that followed. The official status of Dari-Persian and Pashto was reconfirmed in article 16.

            Against this historical background, the revolts of some Dari speaking students in fact express a stronger ethnic consciousness and new awareness of language that some speakers of Pashto, however, also do not lack. In the recent past, numerous neologisms were introduced into Pashto to replace words which previously had been borrowed from or via Dari and belonged to the common Afghan vocabulary of Dari and Pashto, e.g.wulusmǝ́shr (‘President’), ṭōlṭākǝ́na (‘plebiscite’), (‘referendum’), plāzamī́na (‘capital’), khwadzǝ́sht and ghūrdzáng (both in the meaning of ‘movement’),zēzhī́z (‘Anno Domini)’, larwī́n (‘television’). Some of these words are used exclusively in the written language, while others were accepted into the colloquial language as well.

            In defence of the word pōhantūn to be used in the official Dari names of Afghan universities, Pashtun language activists usually claim that, ‘there must be common terms for common institutions since we live in one country’.(8) However, they ignore the fact that it runs against this claim when Pashto speakers use words like wulusmǝ́shr instead of raīs-e jomhūr(both nouns in this phrase are actually Arabic in origin but the link between them – the ‘-e’ [ezāfa] – is typically Dari) that previously had been used both in Dari-Persian and Pashto.

            Of course, there are still a huge number of common words in Dari and Pashto and some Pashtun authors apply very subtle methods to some to actually accentuate the differences. Pashto has retroflex sounds that do not exist in Dari. For this reason, some Pashtun authors write words of Persian origin with retroflex letters to let them appear ‘more Pashto’ or even ‘genuine Pashto’, e.g. retroflex /ḍ/ in panḍ (‘advice’) or retroflex /ṛ/ in pāṛsī́(‘Persian’).(9)

            Linguistic behaviour of the kind found among some speakers of both Dari and Pashto can be characterized as politically intended linguistic divergence or as a tactic of achieving intergroup distinctiveness in search of a positive social identity. ‘By diverging one’s communicative style (…), members of an ingroup accentuate linguistic differences between themselves and a relevant outgroup on, usually, a highly valued dimension of their group identity’ (Giles 2001: 195).

            In Afghanistan, the strengthened ethnic consciousness that bears the attempts of achieving more linguistic distinctiveness comes along with a paradigmatic change to the understanding of what language is. Language is first of all, less associated with a certain type of culture than it is seen as a criterion for demarcation. Accordingly, the term ‘mother tongue’ (Dari:zabān-e mādarī, Pashto: mōranǝ́i zhǝ́ba) started its political career as a highly emotionalised ideological catch-phrase.

            In this respect, however, the situation is quite different for speakers of Pashto and for speakers of Dari. For most Pashtuns, the knowledge of Pashto is an important but insufficient criterion for being Pashtun. Pashtuns have maintained their tribal organization. Belonging to a particular tribe and, ideally, observing the rules of the tribal code of honour are not less important criteria than speaking Pashto. For example, in Herat and Nimroz many Pashtuns speak Dari exclusively, but all of them know which Pashtun tribe they belong to. Neither among their neighbours nor among other Pashtuns is there any doubt about their being Pashtuns. They can be regarded as ‘bad Pashtuns’ who have given up their language but, nevertheless, they are Pashtuns.(10) It can be concluded from this that tribal belonging is more important for being Pashtun than language.

            The situation is completely different among Dari speaking groups. Historically, speakers of Dari-Persian identified themselves and were identified by others not as a single grouping, but by very different criteria. This could be their place of settlement or origin (like kābolī, herātī, mazārī,badakhshī, anārdaraī, etc.), their way of life (tājīk in the meaning of ‘Persian speaking and Sunni peasant or city dweller’, aimāq or ēlāt in the meaning of ‘semi-nomadic tribesmen’), ethnic origin (like hazāra, ʿarab, jūgī (11), etc.) or a combination of these and other criteria. Though speaking Persian is a common feature of all of these groups they have never been seen as a united category. No generic term existed that consolidated all the various groups of speakers of Dari-Persian according to the criterion of language. The word pārsīwān (‘Persian-speaker’) which was much more popular 20 or 30 years ago than it is today, could be seen as a group name, but it has never been applied to all Dari-Persian speakers.

            However, today the term tājīk (‘Tajik’) is being offered as a category that could consolidate almost all Dari-speakers (with the exception of the Hazara). Before the civil war, the word ‘Tajik’ was in use as an ethnic denomination in some regions in north-eastern Afghanistan. Today it is used for self-denomination by Dari-speakers in Kabul, Mazar-e Sharif and Ghazni and is applied as an official category by government agencies to Dari-speakers in many other places. Dari-speakers of Herat still have difficulties calling themselves ‘Tajik’, but when their ethnicity has to be fixed, for instance on the identity card, they will agree to go by the term ‘Tajik’. After all, herātī is not listed in the enumeration of ethnic groups within the constitution. Similarly, in many cases, Aimaq, Arabs and other Dari speaking groups and even speakers of Pamiri languages may be officially registered as Tajiks.(12) It seems Hazara are the only group of Dari-speakers to whom the term ‘Tajik’ remains inapplicable today.

            While language is an insufficient criterion for being Pashtun, a new ethnic unit named ‘Tajik’ is being created in Afghanistan based exclusively on the criterion of language. This can, at least partially explain linguistic behaviour that is aimed at achieving intergroup distinctiveness in search of a positive social identity. Politically intended linguistic divergence is a result of the ethnic dynamics in modern Afghanistan.
            "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
            I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

            -Ferdowsi.

            Comment


            • #7
              Dari or Persian indeed has a more standard grammer and i have heard that farsi is more easier to learn like urdu.

              Pashto for outsider is very difficult to understand unless they have lived for long time among pashtuns.Infact even those kids born in pashtun family and who are taught urdu first has difficulties to have good command on pashto for initial years.
              "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                Shapur, I really you man. You are always so cerebral. You are a real Pashtun. Keep it up, bro.

                Well I wish all the best for Pashtuns. I know its very hard to see how your language is falling behind. Unfortunately if you want your language to become stronger you need also a strong infrastructure that Pashto lacks of. English is a worldwide lingua franca, why? Because USA got the stronger military, politic, economic and cultural power in the world. If you want people to learn Pashto you gotta give them some of that. Otherwise no one will waste his time in order to learn an useless language.

                So far, despite all the historical government support in Afghanistan, Pashtuns have been unable to develop their own language. In the past two centuries Pashtuns have been unable to write on single attractive book for readers. Even many Pashtuns prefer Farsi over Pashto. I know plenty of Pashtuns who prefer to speak Persian and not "dagha pagah".

                You need to work harder, guys.
                I am not bothered about others learning Pashto, its their choice whether they want to learn or not for whatever reason. We dont want to impose our language on others. There are 50 million Pashtuns so we have plenty of native speakers and plenty of demand as it is. The idea is how to get these 50 million people to use Pashto as the main language for every sphere of life.

                There has been little historical support for Pashto language compared to Farsi which has been a court language for many empires. Pashto needs more funding and more attention because it is in a dire situation compared to Farsi. Even if Afghan government completely ignores Farsi, it will still do well because of iran and tajikistan, while Pashto only has the backing of Afghan/pakhtunkhwa government.

                Most Pashtuns are bilingual, in Afghanistan they fan speak Pashto/Farsi and in Pakistan Pashto/Urdu. Ofcourse in order to communicate with other ethnic groups theyw ill either use Farsi or Urdu since these two languages are the lingua franca of these two countries. I have never met Pashtuns who communicate with each other in Urdu/Farsi, they only do so when there is someone present who cant speak pashto as not to be rude. I know plenty Tajiks and uzbeks from peshawar who speak pashto, the peshawaris used to joke with them and call them chi mikoni, badam mikoni as they didnt speak farsi.

                The Iranians after the conquest of Arabs used Arabic as the main language of arts, culture, law etc for 300 years and farsi was thought of as unfashionable until the re emergence of Farsi due to Saffarids,.Samanids, Rudaki etc. Pashto might be unfashionable now but not forever

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shapur View Post
                  I am not bothered about others learning Pashto, its their choice whether they want to learn or not for whatever reason. We dont want to impose our language on others. There are 50 million Pashtuns so we have plenty of native speakers and plenty of demand as it is. The idea is how to get these 50 million people to use Pashto as the main language for every sphere of life.

                  There has been little historical support for Pashto language compared to Farsi which has been a court language for many empires. Pashto needs more funding and more attention because it is in a dire situation compared to Farsi. Even if Afghan government completely ignores Farsi, it will still do well because of iran and tajikistan, while Pashto only has the backing of Afghan/pakhtunkhwa government.

                  Most Pashtuns are bilingual, in Afghanistan they fan speak Pashto/Farsi and in Pakistan Pashto/Urdu. Ofcourse in order to communicate with other ethnic groups theyw ill either use Farsi or Urdu since these two languages are the lingua franca of these two countries. I have never met Pashtuns who communicate with each other in Urdu/Farsi, they only do so when there is someone present who cant speak pashto as not to be rude. I know plenty Tajiks and uzbeks from peshawar who speak pashto, the peshawaris used to joke with them and call them chi mikoni, badam mikoni as they didnt speak farsi.

                  The Iranians after the conquest of Arabs used Arabic as the main language of arts, culture, law etc for 300 years and farsi was thought of as unfashionable until the re emergence of Farsi due to Saffarids,.Samanids, Rudaki etc. Pashto might be unfashionable now but not forever
                  Valid points indeed.

                  I must say that most of Pashtuns I know are from Kabul and Herat and their first language is Farsi so I don't know too much about Pashtospeaker Pashtuns. Pashtuns in Herat despite bragging always about their Pashtuniyat are proud Heratis. They love their Herati accent and they are fully integrated into Herati culture. Honestly speaking I they prefer Farsi over Pashto.

                  I think Pashtuns need to work more on their own culture and don't depend too much on government. Farsi was brought back to life after Arabic invasion by Persianspeakers from all over Iran Zameen. It was a common effort carried out by people from Balkh, Samarqand, Bukhara, Nishabur or Shiraz. Pashtun should do the same regardless governmental support or not. Don't expect help from others, brother!!

                  I know also plenty of Tajiks from Kandahar, Helmand or Gardez who can not speak very well Farsi and their first language is Pashto. I mean just look at Ayatollah Mohseni: he is a Tajik from Kandahar and he speaks Farsi with a heavy Pashto accent.
                  "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                  I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                  -Ferdowsi.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Da Bannu Mazdigar View Post
                    Dari or Persian indeed has a more standard grammer and i have heard that farsi is more easier to learn like urdu.

                    Pashto for outsider is very difficult to understand unless they have lived for long time among pashtuns.Infact even those kids born in pashtun family and who are taught urdu first has difficulties to have good command on pashto for initial years.
                    Urdu is even easier to learn than Farsi!
                    "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                    I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                    -Ferdowsi.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                      Urdu is even easier to learn than Farsi!
                      Urdu is a LOT harder than Farsi. Farsi does not have genders.
                      Kandahar Salaam Salaam

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Barakzai Supply View Post
                        Urdu is a LOT harder than Farsi. Farsi does not have genders.
                        Its not.
                        "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                        I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                        -Ferdowsi.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                          Its not.
                          Farsi: yak dokhtar bud
                          Urdu: ek ladki thi
                          Pashto: yawa injily wa

                          Farsi: yak bacha bud
                          Urdu: ek ladka tha
                          Pashto: yaw halak wo

                          As you can see, in Urdu the verb was is different for boy and girl, as it is in Pashto. If you get genders confused in Urdu, they will laugh at you. This is why the Pathan accent is considered comical, because they get the genders mixed up. Hence, Urdu is harder than Farsi for a learner.
                          Kandahar Salaam Salaam

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Barakzai Supply View Post
                            Farsi: yak dokhtar bud
                            Urdu: ek ladki thi
                            Pashto: yawa injily wa

                            Farsi: yak bacha bud
                            Urdu: ek ladka tha
                            Pashto: yaw halak wo

                            As you can see, in Urdu the verb was is different for boy and girl, as it is in Pashto. If you get genders confused in Urdu, they will laugh at you. This is why the Pathan accent is considered comical, because they get the genders mixed up. Hence, Urdu is harder than Farsi for a learner.
                            Thi and tha.. does not sound that complicated to me.
                            "For thirty years, I endured much pain and strife,
                            I awaken the Ajam by this Persian [language]. "

                            -Ferdowsi.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Firdousi View Post
                              Thi and tha.. does not sound that complicated to me.
                              Urdu is very hard when you have to learn it properly, eg. in school

                              Do you know the difference between mujhe mujhko merey ko etc.?
                              Kandahar Salaam Salaam

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