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  • Khan Gul, you say Islam is superior because it coincides with the essence of life. Now can I ask you what exactly is the "essence of life" you are talking about and how does Islam coincide it? Please give me a universal definition.

    Your argument sounds to me like below.

    "Because I live in this house, so it is the most beautifull of all."

    This is a childish argument because if all religions claim they are superior to each other, then who is going to decide validity of the claims? Obviously, things will ultimately boil down to either the superiority of one religion over the other is decided ratiobally or all religious people destroy each other in mutual hostility eminating from their hollow sense of superiority.

    That is secularism has been chosen which says "keep it in personal domain".
    Last edited by Toramana; 07-25-2010, 12:13 PM.

    Comment


    • As for as I know Qrratugai is one of the most intelligent, knowledgable , positive minded and honest member of this site. Look at her greatness that insoƧpite of being a Muslim she give due respect to all other religions of the world. This superb tolerance and intellectual honesty should be appreciated. In spite of all counter arguments, discouraging remarks, fatwas, and opinions of indoctorinated people, she is still there like a rock defending what she really believes in.

      At the same time she is reconciliatory and give due attention to any reasonable point rasied by any other member. Compare the way she takes the argument and the manner some members with their bulleying attitude , obscurantist ideas, approach of bigots and rigid behaviour. Qrratugai is no doubt a shining star of this site and all of us must be proud of this brilliant genius , a role model for Pashtun women and men at the same time. I dont feel hesitation to express this openly that so far I have not seen a great Pashtun wpman like her at least in the virtual world of Internet.

      Comment


      • About the topic , as I explained earlier , the issue is not that Islam is superior or inferior to other religion for all the human beings.For all the believers in their respective religions , their own religion is superior to the other an dthats why they believe in that particular religion other wise all the believer human beings would be all Muslims or Chritians or adherents to other world religions.

        The question is Islam is a religion like any other religion BEING A RELIGION and is not a complete system which give us guidance in other spheres of life beyond beliefs, worship and morality. Islam has no political, economic, cultural, scientific, social, philosophical etc guidance like a complete system and for this matter we have to seek guidance from other systems like democracy etc. If we separate religious from non religious then taliban like people wont be our rulers but their role will be limited only to religious part of our lives. They wont be our rulers, economists and wont impose their culture , social values and education system on us.

        Yes for me being a Muslim islam is the best of all religions thats why I am a Muslim otherwise I should not call my self as a Muslim but at the same time I give the right to a Christian for example to consider his or her religion as the best for him or her. I cant impose on non Muslims that they must call islam the best Religion for them too. As Qrratugai well said all this is normative, personal, subjective , private and not a scientific fact.

        Comment


        • osho firstly why do you state the obvious? A christian obviously feels his religion is superior to others, that is why he is following it. Same a muslim obviously feels his religion is superior to others that is why he follows it. This is like the 100th time in this topic people have done that stating things that nobody could disagree with even a child wouldn't.

          The question to ask is millions of people think like that, but how do we explain the people who change their religion? This is due to discussion, open minded-ness and a bit of reasoning. Islam itself promotes these things and like i have said before the Quran is not a set of comandments, it is not a list like the ten comandments. It was very easy for Allah to send a book with do's and dont's...But instead when one reads the Quran how many times has Allah asked us a question. Why? To get your mind to think because when one asks a question to somebody, it makes them think. He says look at the creation around you, is it possible that it came by chance? Study your body, study, IQRA (READ) and so on.

          When a knowledgeable christian and a knowledgeable muslim have a debate, like you see Zakir Naik everytime he is on top of his opponent. Why is that? Ahmad Deedat was always on top of his opponents, the reason being that Islam is superior to all religions and Allah made a challenge to human beings to make something like Quran even a few ayats like it. As a muslim we challenge all religions to try to show us Islam is not true. WE dont need to be scared. If you feel your religion is superior, based upon wat?

          Based upon facts. If a person on the street tells me he knows more anatomy than me. Based on what? If i know that I am superior than him in anatomy, i will say lets have a challenge who can answer the most questions. Then in the end one will be inferior and one will be superior. It is not possible that both will be the same after a challenge.

          So please use this brain of yours, it is quite simple yet its taken more than 30 pages for you guys and still you are going round in circles. Equal this equal that. SPEAK FACTS.

          You talk about Islam, well show us Islam. I dont wanna know about your version of islam based on your whims and desires. I dont follow osho islam, i dont follow qrat Islam i follow Islam based on my scriptures. SO when you wanna discuss Islam give me quotes.

          Osho claims Islam has no political, economic, cultural, scientific etc. (which dont make sense first because you never completed your sentence). And if you just open the Quran it says do not rule by other than Allahs law. What is that supposed to mean? RULE is a simple english word meaning to govern as in a leader. Yet osho is claiming something other than what the Quran is teaching. It is irrational to think that a religion from Allah will come and it will not entail all matters related to life and how to live. What kind of religion comes and just based upon worship.

          All matters of life is related to ibadat (worship). When you treat your neigbour kindly that is ibadat. Ibadat is not limited to mosques. Scholars role in life is not limited to writing books, when their society is messed up they have a duty to try to do something. Otherwise they are just a joke, what use of knowledge when you cannot make a change or 'try' to make a change for the betterment of society.

          There is a clear ayat in the Quran enjoin the good and forbid the evil. Many times it says this, Allah cursed the jews because they abandoned this act. What is the meaning of this ayat, it again goes against your concept of selfishness. Imposing is one thing and making others understand is another.

          You have been imposed many rules in the west, you cannot pass a red light, you cannot park on double yellow line, you cannot drive without insurance. IMPOSED! All rules of lands have to be imposed, otherwise you are living on la la land. Rules have to be imposed otherwise they are not rules. When you go to class a rule is not to talk in class. You want to talk as much as you want, you feel like this is being imposed upon you, but thats the RULE, whether you like it or not, is irrelevant.
          My Blog

          Comment


          • If you cant read all of the above i will summarise in a few sentences.

            If one claims something is superior to the other, you have to prove it. Christians should prove their religion is word of God, Jews also and hindus and muslims. With all these religions debating and challenging one another, at the end of it if everyone is honest one religion can only claim to be superior. Not all will be superior that is impossible.

            Claiming one thing is different than proving one thing!!! So dont tell me about what people claim, that oh my religion is superior bla bla bla.
            My Blog

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MeemWawMeemNoon View Post
              This is your opinion.

              Yes this is my opinion and the readers have the full right to agree or disgree to what I opine.



              I agree.




              How could you say that when the Prophet (saw) started something from scratch and left an empire behind. The Quran says that he (saw) guided by revelation. Further, how can you expect the Quran to say to acquire knowledge but have given you the process before hand. Quran has given all important factors to guide mankind, but has left man to govern for himself. Even the Prophet (saw) was told not to meddle in the lives of people.

              This is exactly what I tried to express in my article. I consider the Prophet to be a Prophet of Islam as a religion as well as a great Arab leader who gave an Arab empire to the Arab Muslims. I agree that Quran does talk of few other aspects of life beyond religion like law, society, culture. science, politics, economics etc but first these few injunctions does not make Islam a complete Political, economic or other system. All these injunctions basically have moral underpinings and Ethics being part of Religion along with faith and worship is well understood. I fully agree with your words that Quran has left man to govern for himself. Even the Prophet (saw) was told not to meddle in the lives of people. This govering for him self or her self is what is not Religion and this not meddling in lives of people is what I call no religion.





              Muslims need to understand how the early Muslims, i.e. first three centuries, practiced Islam. There after it might give away how to survive the 21st Century.

              Beyond the first 30 years of Islam , I dont see any model political or economic or social etc Islam. Umayyads, Abassids etc all in the first 3 centuries were all dictators, corrupt and not practising Muslims even by religion. The only era which can be followed religiously an dnon religiously is upto the last Pious Caliph Hazrat Ali and few years of people like Umar bin Abdul Aziz. But all the reforms for example of Hazrat Umar were both in religion(faith, worship, morality) but also in secular or non religious stuff. What Muslims did in first 3 centuries is not necesarily the religion of Islam. They also did secular or non religious things too and also whatever they did in the first 3 centuries were not all good. they killed each other and practised many other evils too. Yes I salute to the religious scholars like Imam Jafar sadiq, the four Sunni Imams, etc and Sufis but they all struggled in the religious part not in the political or other spheres of life. They were not rulers as taliban want but were religious scholars.



              I disagree. The Quran has given valuable guidance. It has simply pointed to the answer and has left the process at the hands of man to discover.

              Yes as ealier said Quran does give few guidance tips but is not a system. Thats why we have to resort to other sources for guidance as in politics etc. Quran mainly concentrates on religion on beliefs, morality and worship not on politics, economics, society, culture, science etc.
              .


              Is that simply for morality purposes?

              Yes morality is the driving force behind all these non religious injunctions other wise Quran might have covered these secular aspects of life in the samw details as it has covered the religion i.e. faith, morality and worship. If Quran talks of politics its mainly because of the moral part of politics not the technical part of politics or economics.



              How well are you versed with the Quran? I take it that you are, otherwise, you would not make such a statement. That leads me to my second question: how do you want the Quran to answer all of this?

              I have read the Quran many times with translation and exegesis. I have read tafseers like Ibne kasir, Muraful Quran, Tafheemul Quran etc. I understand Arabic and I am fully impressed from the language and message of Quran. Its really a divine book and the words cant be of a human being. I am also impressed from the way Quran has tackled all the religious issues of faith, worship and morality in such a detail and has left other aspects of life to human beings to explore according to the needs of the time. At the same time Quran has given very few very basic rules for other aspects of life for Muslims as limits with moral tinge so that ,Muslims may not transgress these moral values like justice, honesty, etc while devising a political or economic or other system. But for religioous part Quran has given all the details because these cant be made by man. man cant make the beliefs , modes of worship and the religious part of morality.



              I totally disgree. Anything can be taken out of context.

              Can you please tell me why you totally disgree here?




              How do you think other political systems emerged?

              All political system have their own history of evolution. For this we need a separate discusssion or we can read each political ssytem in detail. For me democracy is the best political system and we shall have soon a sepaarte article on democracy for Pashtuns and Muslims.



              Has it ever occurred to you that maybe they are "using" Islam for their own political agendas?

              Exactly. They are using the religion of Islam for their political, economic, cultural , social and other agendas. In this one sentence you have given the epitome of my whole article, I am impressed. They use Islam which is only a religion for politics etc too. Thats why we have problems like taliban and wahabis.


              Again, why do you want the Quran to explicitly answer this? As for zakar, how much do you understand about it?

              Quran has mentioned zakat as it should have mentioned it. Its a moral concept helping out poors by rich. I have studies zakat in detail. We can have separate discussion on it.



              The logical fallacy in your statement is that you have made the Muslims the yard-stick. Are you sure they "practicing" Muslims?

              Some Muslims are not practicing even of the religion but others want them to pratcise islam as a political or other systems



              Well, that is we need to educated people to look at Islam from the eyes of the Prophet (saw) not any Ahmad, Mahmud, Kalbir or Maqsud.



              Again, as you have noted, it is a problem of interpretation and forced following.



              Shariah is not to be practiced by anyone. The Quran guides the Muslims to submit to the law of the land, even if the ruler is not Muslim. Extremist exist everywhere.



              Again, you are interpreting the flaws from the practice of the Taliban. They are not the standard for Islam; they do not have the agenda for Muslims.



              Again, logical fallacy. See above.



              You said it yourself: your logic is feeding off one group.



              Again, you have admitted it yourself: it is an interpretation issue.



              You hit the nail on the head!



              You have canceled your first statement with you last and vice versa. How could it have failed when everything today in based on "ethics" anyway? Hence, it is the people themselves to be blamed, not the teaching itself.




              How can you blame Islam for this?



              Again, where is Islam at fault here?



              This is your opinion. It is not all correct. Why do you clothe yourself?



              Well, you have indirectly said that, because you do not agree with Quranic principles, or it might be that you are not acquainted with Quranic principles for which I can understand your position.



              Word. That is why Islam "seems" to not have the answers and "seems" to be a prehistoric teaching in your eyes.



              How could you blame Islamic teachings on the practice of people?



              I disagree. One question: how much do you know about early Islamic history?

              I have read islamic history in all possible details



              What is the purpose of being good? This question will solve your dilemma.

              Good is what is not bad in the eyes of God, indivisual, society and state. Good is what you as a person feel acceptable, and then as a society , as a state. When you dont violate your religion, your state law and may be your family and society. We can have a separate discussion on this.



              Where did Islam say to leave secularism?

              If islam says not to leave secularism then thats why I wrote in my article. Islam itself promotes secularism.



              The West figured this out in the Age of the Renaissance. However, this has been the guideline of the Quran since 1430. Again, you are basing your conclusion on practice of Muslims and not the Quranic teaching.



              Give me one example. You can't just make a statement without backing it up with an example.
              I ll write on it separately with examples


              Again, your opinion.



              Where does it say in Islam not to separate the two?



              Whose fault is this?



              Again, logical fallacy.

              Remember, the sword will bend will make the head bow, but will not bend the heart.





              This is clearly only your view.



              Again, logical fallacy.



              The more I read the more I am concluding that you are NOT well versed with the Quran.



              I have answered this above.



              You are repeating yourself.



              Where does it say we can't? Again, I think that you have not read the Quran with an open spirit.



              Is morality good? If so, why?
              I have tried to reply to most of the remarks abobe in bold. On some I ll write separately. On some I agree thats why I have left it. Some remarks are repeated like the one that I base my argument on the practice of Muslims not on Islam. Yes this is the main problem. What I write is what the Muslims practice wrongly not what Islam is. Islam is a great religion but we understand it wrong and practise it wrong and thats why I point out these wrong practices.

              I am really thankful to Momin for his scholarly comments on my article. He is indeed a very inteliigent, knowledgable and positive minded member of this community.

              Comment


              • Dearest brother/sister,being universal means extending to the entire world or all within the world, affecting all races, groups, situations, purposes, conditions etc. If a religion claims to be universal,then by virtue of that you should accept that all religions/people are EQUAL though not the SAME (how is any religion universal when its followers say that they are the BEST ones? That is messed up). Or to put it into a more simple example: "I am beautiful and I like myself, but I ALSO appreciate the beauty of other people (considering the fact that I have a universal approach) regardless of whatever gender, religion, ethnicity, culture,social class etc people might have."Conversely if you think that you are the most beautiful person and the rest are hideous ogres, you are no more universal but a complete biased person, full of vainglory.

                And here I refute your claim in the most truculent manner: No religion can claim to be universal because of its innate "superiority" aspect associated with it (as has been mentioned bajillion times by YOU, Afghanlady, Shlombay and others..), be it Islam, Judaism, Christianity. The only CONCEPT that has a universal appeal is HUMANITY--that transcends all synthetic barriers and appreciate a person as HUMAN rather than Jew, Hindu, Muslim, deist, athiest, vegetarian, ignorant, or educated etc

                Making claims is one thing; the practical presence and realization of those claims is another and the real absence of those claims just make them flimsy and hollow.


                Originally posted by MeemWawMeemNoon View Post
                Further, Islam is the only religion that claims universality. Show me any other religion that claims universality?
                Last edited by PFgulalai; 07-25-2010, 02:50 PM.
                "O Pakhtuns!, Your house has fallen into ruin, let us rebuild it".
                "I want to see my people educated and enlightened. A people with a vision and a strong sense of justice, who can carve out a future for themselves in harmony with nature".

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Saifullah View Post
                  If you cant read all of the above i will summarise in a few sentences.

                  If one claims something is superior to the other, you have to prove it. Christians should prove their religion is word of God, Jews also and hindus and muslims. With all these religions debating and challenging one another, at the end of it if everyone is honest one religion can only claim to be superior. Not all will be superior that is impossible.

                  Claiming one thing is different than proving one thing!!! So dont tell me about what people claim, that oh my religion is superior bla bla bla.
                  I read both of your above posts and I agree whatever you said except the fact that Islam being only a religion gives you details of beliefs, modes of worship like prayets, fasting, zakat, hajj, and details of morality like not telling lies, respecting neighbours, parents etc but there are no details of politics, economics, culture, society, science, technology , philosophy etc and for these we have to resort to other sources as democracy, capitalism, socialism, natural and social sciences etc not to Quran or hadith. indeed Quran gives us general guidelines which you call rules but these are only moral injunctions not rules or codified laws like penal codes, criminal codes, traffic rules, science laws and formulas, philosophical theories.

                  Islamic scholars should guide us in the matters of beliefs, worship and ethics but not in politics, economics, culture, society, science, technology and philosophy for example. they should not become taliban to rule over us and to become police, judges, administrators etc at the same time.

                  I dont discuss which religion is superior and which is inferior. For me being a Muslim Islam is superior and for another would be his or her religion. This obvious thing was also told by Qrratugai but no body tried to understand her. Some times obvious things become difficult to explain or understand.

                  We should impose religious rules or injunctions on Muslim society as they should believe in one God, they should believe in the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad, they should offer prayers, keep fasts, pay zakat, go for hajj and enjoin on the moral values but you cant impose the politics or economics or culture etc for which you need to seek approval from parliament in a democratic polity, you have to implement economic policies recommended by the modern day economists and you have to preserve the culture of each society and cant impose the culture of Arabs on all Muslims

                  For modern education you have to make universities and not madrassas and for traffic and other rules you may learn from the west and thus you become a developed people not beggers, terrorists, extremists. wahabis, taliban, drugg dealers, poverty stricken down troddden mobs paying thousands of dollars just to enter into the west. If you like the west for yourself also like their system for your whole people.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Toramana View Post
                    Khan Gul, you say Islam is superior because it coincides with the essence of life. Now can I ask you what exactly is the "essence of life" you are talking about and how does Islam coincide it? Please give me a universal definition.

                    Your argument sounds to me like below.

                    "Because I live in this house, so it is the most beautifull of all."

                    This is a childish argument because if all religions claim they are superior to each other, then who is going to decide validity of the claims? Obviously, things will ultimately boil down to either the superiority of one religion over the other is decided ratiobally or all religious people destroy each other in mutual hostility eminating from their hollow sense of superiority.

                    That is secularism has been chosen which says "keep it in personal domain".
                    What would be the yard-stick you are looking for, dear brother, to prove one being superior over the other?

                    Again, in the eyes of someone who is a non-believer in religion, all religions are equal. But the fact of the matter is, and this is what you have mentioned, that every religion claims superiority. Hence, they can't be equal.
                    Islam will prevail, a promise made by the Creator of this universe:

                    [61:8] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

                    [61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by osho View Post
                      As for as I know Qrratugai is one of the most intelligent, knowledgable , positive minded and honest member of this site. Look at her greatness that insoƧpite of being a Muslim she give due respect to all other religions of the world. This superb tolerance and intellectual honesty should be appreciated. In spite of all counter arguments, discouraging remarks, fatwas, and opinions of indoctorinated people, she is still there like a rock defending what she really believes in.

                      At the same time she is reconciliatory and give due attention to any reasonable point rasied by any other member. Compare the way she takes the argument and the manner some members with their bulleying attitude , obscurantist ideas, approach of bigots and rigid behaviour. Qrratugai is no doubt a shining star of this site and all of us must be proud of this brilliant genius , a role model for Pashtun women and men at the same time. I dont feel hesitation to express this openly that so far I have not seen a great Pashtun wpman like her at least in the virtual world of Internet.

                      You are entitled to your opinion, and I agree with most of what you have said about her; however, she does not answer questions which will make the issue clear. She avoids them. Why?

                      This is intellectual dishonesty.
                      Islam will prevail, a promise made by the Creator of this universe:

                      [61:8] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

                      [61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

                      Comment


                      • qrrtgai jawab wley na war kaya? berezha mah.


                        din

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by osho View Post
                          About the topic , as I explained earlier , the issue is not that Islam is superior or inferior to other religion for all the human beings.For all the believers in their respective religions , their own religion is superior to the other an dthats why they believe in that particular religion other wise all the believer human beings would be all Muslims or Chritians or adherents to other world religions.

                          The question is Islam is a religion like any other religion BEING A RELIGION and is not a complete system which give us guidance in other spheres of life beyond beliefs, worship and morality. Islam has no political, economic, cultural, scientific, social, philosophical etc guidance like a complete system and for this matter we have to seek guidance from other systems like democracy etc. If we separate religious from non religious then taliban like people wont be our rulers but their role will be limited only to religious part of our lives. They wont be our rulers, economists and wont impose their culture , social values and education system on us.

                          Yes for me being a Muslim islam is the best of all religions thats why I am a Muslim otherwise I should not call my self as a Muslim but at the same time I give the right to a Christian for example to consider his or her religion as the best for him or her. I cant impose on non Muslims that they must call islam the best Religion for them too. As Qrratugai well said all this is normative, personal, subjective , private and not a scientific fact.
                          Osho, dearest brother, the fact that you have chosen Islam over any other religion and as you mentioned that it is the "best" religion proves that all religions are not equal.

                          As far as other religions are concerned, we maintain that the fact that they claim superiority is a fact that no religion is equal. Otherwise, why invite people towards a particular religion?
                          Islam will prevail, a promise made by the Creator of this universe:

                          [61:8] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

                          [61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by osho View Post
                            I have tried to reply to most of the remarks abobe in bold. On some I ll write separately. On some I agree thats why I have left it. Some remarks are repeated like the one that I base my argument on the practice of Muslims not on Islam. Yes this is the main problem. What I write is what the Muslims practice wrongly not what Islam is. Islam is a great religion but we understand it wrong and practise it wrong and thats why I point out these wrong practices.

                            I am really thankful to Momin for his scholarly comments on my article. He is indeed a very inteliigent, knowledgable and positive minded member of this community.

                            Dearest osho, are per your answers, you do agree that Islam has the answer to every aspect of human being's lives. Your concern is, and I am paraphrasing, that it does not go into detail.

                            Let us do this, choose any topic and let us discuss it. You will see how Islam has the answer to everything.
                            Islam will prevail, a promise made by the Creator of this universe:

                            [61:8] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

                            [61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by gulalai View Post
                              Dearest brother/sister,being universal means extending to the entire world or all within the world, affecting all races, groups, situations, purposes, conditions etc. If a religion claims to be universal,then by virtue of that you should accept that all religions/people are EQUAL though not the SAME (how is any religion universal when its followers say that they are the BEST ones? That is messed up). Or to put it into a more simple example: "I am beautiful and I like myself, but I ALSO appreciate the beauty of other people (considering the fact that I have a universal approach) regardless of whatever gender, religion, ethnicity, culture,social class etc people might have."Conversely if you think that you are the most beautiful person and the rest are hideous ogres, you are no more universal but a complete biased person, full of vainglory.
                              First off, Islam is not a new religion. It is the completion of religions.
                              Secondly, have you read the Quran? What other religious books have you read?

                              Originally posted by gulalai View Post
                              And here I refute your claim in the most truculent manner: No religion can claim to be universal because of its innate "superiority" aspect associated with it (as has been mentioned bajillion times by YOU, Afghanlady, Shlombay and others..), be it Islam, Judaism, Christianity. The only CONCEPT that has a universal appeal is HUMANITY--that transcends all synthetic barriers and appreciate a person as HUMAN rather than Jew, Hindu, Muslim, deist, athiest, vegetarian, ignorant, or educated etc
                              Then why do you think religion exists?

                              Originally posted by gulalai View Post
                              Making claims is one thing; the practical presence and realization of those claims is another and the real absence of those claims just make them flimsy and hollow.
                              Dearest sister, I am pretty sure that your opinions are not accepted by everyone, as intelligent as you are. What do you do when they are not accepted? I, personally, don't shove them down peoples' throat and I don't mock them. I let them be. However, when someone claims something that goes against their own beliefs, I will let them know. If they continue to deny it, then I will continue by hook or by crook, until they stop denying or keep quiet.

                              As far as my sister Qrratugai is concerned, she believes that Islam is correct. That revealed, how on earth can she claim that Islam is equal to any other religion when she has chosen Islam as her faith? How can she claim that Islam is equal to any other faith when Islam denies the existence of any other god but Allah?

                              As far as you are concerned, Islam might not be a universal truth, this is something which you have the right to believe in. However, just because you don't see it does not mean that it is not. Before 9/11 many people did not know what Islam was, did that make Islam non-existent?
                              Islam will prevail, a promise made by the Creator of this universe:

                              [61:8] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

                              [61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by osho View Post
                                I read both of your above posts and I agree whatever you said except the fact that Islam being only a religion gives you details of beliefs, modes of worship like prayets, fasting, zakat, hajj, and details of morality like not telling lies, respecting neighbours, parents etc but there are no details of politics, economics, culture, society, science, technology , philosophy etc and for these we have to resort to other sources as democracy, capitalism, socialism, natural and social sciences etc not to Quran or hadith. indeed Quran gives us general guidelines which you call rules but these are only moral injunctions not rules or codified laws like penal codes, criminal codes, traffic rules, science laws and formulas, philosophical theories.

                                Islamic scholars should guide us in the matters of beliefs, worship and ethics but not in politics, economics, culture, society, science, technology and philosophy for example. they should not become taliban to rule over us and to become police, judges, administrators etc at the same time.

                                I dont discuss which religion is superior and which is inferior. For me being a Muslim Islam is superior and for another would be his or her religion. This obvious thing was also told by Qrratugai but no body tried to understand her. Some times obvious things become difficult to explain or understand.

                                We should impose religious rules or injunctions on Muslim society as they should believe in one God, they should believe in the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad, they should offer prayers, keep fasts, pay zakat, go for hajj and enjoin on the moral values but you cant impose the politics or economics or culture etc for which you need to seek approval from parliament in a democratic polity, you have to implement economic policies recommended by the modern day economists and you have to preserve the culture of each society and cant impose the culture of Arabs on all Muslims

                                For modern education you have to make universities and not madrassas and for traffic and other rules you may learn from the west and thus you become a developed people not beggers, terrorists, extremists. wahabis, taliban, drugg dealers, poverty stricken down troddden mobs paying thousands of dollars just to enter into the west. If you like the west for yourself also like their system for your whole people.
                                We respect all religions. We have all accepted that ALL religions claim superiority. If they are equal, they are equal only in the sight of those who right out deny religion as a truth.

                                If they are equal in the sight of religious people then it means that they can be a Muslim today and a Jew tomorrow and a Hindu after tomorrow, because despite being different would all bring them to the same level of spirituality.

                                This cannot be.

                                The main base of religion is the existence of God. Each religion has a different understanding of God. Therefore, how could all religions be equal when their understanding of God and His worship are different?

                                Hence, a person cannot pick and choose a different religion everyday, for it would pull him in different directions and confuse the hell out of him.
                                Last edited by MeemWawMeemNoon; 07-26-2010, 02:06 AM.
                                Islam will prevail, a promise made by the Creator of this universe:

                                [61:8] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with the breath of their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, even if the disbelievers hate it.

                                [61:9] He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, even if those who associate partners with God hate it.

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