Islam is just a religion like any other religion

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Meemwawmeemnoon,
nearly everybody who has posted here has showed how absurd and deviated Qrratugais view are. Osho just prove that they cant be equal since he chose Islam.

Momin, There is a reason why she is hiding. Not only is it scholarly dishonest but it also means she lacks the ability in defending her stances. I was on vacation in Australia now that I am back she needs to realize she cant just say something without expecting us to challenge her views. If she cant reply back to the refutation that tells us a lot.

Momin think positive maybe she is typing up a reply :D , If she doesnt in a few days it will prove to us that she couldnt back her self up with her ridiculous, "All Religious are equal" line.

Dearest and most beloved sister,

I will not have a problem with Qrratugai or Osho, just as I don't have a problem with my dear sisters, Gulalai, Muhsina, Musafira, my brothers Zalmai and others, if they don't call themselves as adherent of a specific religion.

The second someone says that he is Hindu and says that all religions are equal, I tell him that he is out of his mind. If someone claims to be a Christian and then claims that all religions are equal, I tell him that he is out of his mind. I will do the same to a Muslim who does the same.

If Qrratugai says she is not a Muslim then I will give her stance more value and respect. But as a Muslim she forfeits the right to hold such an opinion.

[Badlun]

Dearest osho, are per your answers, you do agree that Islam has the answer to every aspect of human being's lives. Your concern is, and I am paraphrasing, that it does not go into detail.

Let us do this, choose any topic and let us discuss it. You will see how Islam has the answer to everything.

I believe that Islam gives full details of beliefs, modes of worship and ethics. No need to discuss it here. I dont believe that Islam has the answer to every aspect of human being's life. It only gives few guidelines for other aspects as politics, culture, economics, society, philosophy,etc but these guidelines have moral basis not particular details. For these aspects we need guidance from other sources. For politics and economy we need to follow the developed countries and their systems specially of the G7 countries or G20 countries. For culture and society we have Pashtunwali for Pashtuns and other people or Muslims have their own culture and society and Arab culture in the name of Islam may not be imposed on them. For science we need consulting pure science books and so on .

Now from this if you are not satisfied then lets start discussing each aspect separately. Lets take start from Political system and politics.

As given in wikipedia we can define political system a complete set of institutions, interest groups (such as political parties, trade unions, lobby groups), the relationships between those institutions and the political norms and rules that govern their functions (constitution, election law). Politics is a process by which groups of people make collective decisions. The term is generally applied to behavior within civil governments.

Now please enlighten us that how Islam(only Quran) give us a political system and it tell us in detail how Muslims should practise politics. Why we should not take simple democracy as our model? why we should not follow the developed world in politics and political system?

I said above that only Quran because I want to avoid the discussions on the authenticity of hadiths. I also dont expect traditional answers that Quran tells us about the sovereingty of Allah, principles of Justice, consultation etc as all these fall in ethics not in politics or a complete political system.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

We will stick to the Quran. Insha Allah!

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Now from this if you are not satisfied then lets start discussing each aspect separately. Lets take start from Political system and politics.

As given in wikipedia we can define political system a complete set of institutions, interest groups (such as political parties, trade unions, lobby groups), the relationships between those institutions and the political norms and rules that govern their functions (constitution, election law). Politics is a process by which groups of people make collective decisions. The term is generally applied to behavior within civil governments.

Now please enlighten us that how Islam(only Quran) give us a political system and it tell us in detail how Muslims should practise politics. Why we should not take simple democracy as our model? why we should not follow the developed world in politics and political system?

I said above that only Quran because I want to avoid the discussions on the authenticity of hadiths. I also dont expect traditional answers that Quran tells us about the sovereingty of Allah, principles of Justice, consultation etc as all these fall in ethics not in politics or a complete political system.

Let us begin!

Define "simple democracy," in your own words.

[Badlun]

It will become difficult if we chat in place of discussion in the shape of long posts or artciles. We cant go in a conversation style because I am not here all the time as I am busy in travelling, job and studies. You please reply to my request on the politics and political system as given by Quran. You may take your time and I ll take time to comment on your reply or asking you another question.

If I am not satisfied from your answer then I ll give my alternative and will explain why we should have democracy and not what you tell us the political system of Islam.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

We will post whenever we have time. Let us just do it this way, it would be simpler. Believe me. Let it take as much time as is necessary.

Please answer the above question and we will take it up this thread whenever we have time. No rush.

So, could you kindly describe "simple democracy" in your own words?

[Badlun]

Democracy is to govern a state according to the wishes of the majority of the residents or voters of that state. For me the democracy working in the G7 or G20 countries in whatever shape is a model which we Muslims and Pashtuns should follow in our political system and politics with the only difference that democracy should not be extended to the religion as our faith, worship and part of religious morality should not be decided by the majority decision of our voters or legislators. For example a bill may not be passed in a Muslim parliament that there are two Gods instead of one. religion should not be touched but other decisions may be taken by the democratic ways. As well as culture of Pashtuns if does not clash with human rights may not be goverened by majority rule.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Democracy is to govern a state according to the wishes of the majority of the residents or voters of that state. For me the democracy working in the G7 or G20 countries in whatever shape is a model which we Muslims and Pashtuns should follow in our political system and politics with the only difference that democracy should not be extended to the religion as our faith, worship and part of religious morality should not be decided by the majority decision of our voters or legislators. For example a bill may not be passed in a Muslim parliament that there are two Gods instead of one. religion should not be touched but other decisions may be taken by the democratic ways. As well as culture of Pashtuns if does not clash with human rights may not be goverened by majority rule.

Beloved brother, do you really think that there is democracy in the Western world? Does the populace have a say at every junction of political decisions?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Is it democracy or is it a system which works?

[PFgulalai]

First off, Islam is not a new religion. It is the completion of religions.

Religions have been evolving since prehistoric times and they are still evolving.

Secondly, have you read the Quran? What other religious books have you read?

Hmm. I guess I should not answer you again so that you keep on asking me and others this question (atleast you will have some question to ask!!)

Then why do you think religion exists?

Obviously, to control the minds of humans by instilling fear from supernatural beings and to justify and maintain the authority, domination, and command of a group, race, King, Ruler, Shamans, priests etc.

Dearest sister, I am pretty sure that your opinions are not accepted by everyone, as intelligent as you are. What do you do when they are not accepted?

I chillax !!!!

I, personally, don't shove them down peoples' throat and I don't mock them. I let them be. However, when someone claims something that goes against their own beliefs, I will let them know. If they continue to deny it, then I will continue by hook or by crook, until they stop denying or keep quiet.

I found it ridiculously self-contradictiory. LOL

As far as you are concerned, Islam might not be a universal truth, this is something which you have the right to believe in. However, just because you don't see it does not mean that it is not. Before 9/11 many people did not know what Islam was, did that make Islam non-existent?

You are right. After 9/11, they want to forget that they were so ignorant before.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dear sister, if religion to you is a mockery and is only for ignorant people then who am I to argue with you. Obviously, you must know everything: you are only a biologist.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Beloved brother, do you really think that there is democracy in the Western world? Does the populace have a say at every junction of political decisions?

Dearest brother and most honored Khaleel-ul-Rahman, when the population gets to have a say at every junction, it's called 'direct democracy'. It's a very ineffective method of ruling because poor decisions can be made by a manipulated mob (like they banned minarets in Switzerland). Modern democracy works on the basis of the social contract theory. The people give power and authority temporarily to a group of individuals who, within a certain framework (the constitution), rule them, maintain order, take care of their needs and protect them. That is democracy. Democracy doesn't mean that in a state of 320 million people, every person has a say in every decision. That's mob-rule.


Kind regards.


Furthermore, you asked the purpose of religions. Momin-e-azaam. Religions came about when people couldn't answer simple questions - where does fire come from (must be a power of the gods stolen by Prometheus), what are stars (must be gods lulz), what are those voices coming from the woods (must be fairies - virgin fairies - Caucasian virgin fairies - hurs), etc. Religion explained all the phenomena that couldn't be explained by the science back then. As scientific knowledge grew, we realized that all the stuff the religious taught as science was based on ancient fairy tales and that's why we have Muslims like you who have stopped interpretation the Quran literally.


More kind regards.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Dearest and beloved brother,

Dearest brother and most honored Khaleel-ul-Rahman, when the population gets to have a say at every junction, it's called 'direct democracy'. It's a very ineffective method of ruling because poor decisions can be made by a manipulated mob (like they banned minarets in Switzerland). Modern democracy works on the basis of the social contract theory. The people give power and authority temporarily to a group of individuals who, within a certain framework (the constitution), rule them, maintain order, take care of their needs and protect them. That is democracy. Democracy doesn't mean that in a state of 320 million people, every person has a say in every decision. That's mob-rule.

This is not rejected by Quran. The system of Shurah encourages exactly this.

Furthermore, you asked the purpose of religions. Momin-e-azaam. Religions came about when people couldn't answer simple questions - where does fire come from (must be a power of the gods stolen by Prometheus), what are stars (must be gods lulz), what are those voices coming from the woods (must be fairies - virgin fairies - Caucasian virgin fairies - hurs), etc. Religion explained all the phenomena that couldn't be explained by the science back then. As scientific knowledge grew, we realized that all the stuff the religious taught as science was based on ancient fairy tales and that's why we have Muslims like you who have stopped interpretation the Quran literally.

Are you saying that we know everything now?

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Dearest and beloved brother, This is not rejected by Quran. The system of Shurah encourages exactly this.

Not according to the Muslim political thinkers. They call for a Caliph. The parliament shura idea didn't come about until Jamaludeen Afghani (19th century).

Are you saying that we know everything now?

We're pretty close to knowing everything but not everything about everything. The more we find out, the more mysteries begin to unravel. Religions don't know anything except what they learn from scientists and not a single religion has provided anything scientific to man that only a deity could have known. I have to go now but I'll respond to you when I come back 7-8 hours from now. Please pray for my safe journey.

Also, everyday, I've been witnessing dead animals (usually cats) in the middle of the roads and sometimes, there's no choice but to drive over them because only women change lanes without referring to the side mirrors first. Please pray that I see happier things on the way.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

May Allah protect you and may you arrive safe and sound. Take care.