Islam is just a religion like any other religion

[Saifullah]

~sighs~ Good God, we're going around in circles and going nowhere. This is a headache.

Equal in what? Equal to each other? If so, one doens't have to be a genius to know that that's not true; it's a big lie.

But by equal, I've said over and over and am clearly not tired of repeating it, I mean that ALL religions are of equal value and merit; ALL deserve equal respect and equal right to existence and appreciation and tolerance and so forth.

If one can't realize the above statement, it'll just have to take time. Because, in all honesty, I find this discussion as nugatory as it could get (since people are saying the same thing, giving the same claim over and over without proving it) -- especially when I've a ton of other, more important things to be doing right now than to be talking to people who believe that just because Islam is the correct religion, it means all other religions don't have equal right to exist or be appreciated or respected. --> This is the definition of "equal" that I've given in every post so far.

All newcomers are requested to read the thread before asking more questions because everyone's ssaying the same thing (i.e., equal = sameness).

Please re read what you are write. You seem to be going in circles. Why do u have to show us your own unique definition of equal, cant u just say what you believe....equal rights is not true either...a non-muslim man cannot marry a muslim woman. Here equal rights means he should be able to..There is plenty of things similar to that....but yes dont insult them and respect their beliefs...no need to even use the word equal.

[Saifullah]

Respect is one thing, which by the way ONLY Islam teaches towards other religions; to be equal, though, is a different issue. They are not the same.

I dont know how more obvious you can make this issue....equal is not the word to use.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Qratugai seems to be equating respect to meaning all things are equal. Just because i tolerate others, respect their right to believe in what they want (surah al kafirun) and dont insult their religion/God, does not in any way mean all religions are equal.

Actually, that is not correct.

Alah describes the polytheists as filthy because they commit the worst sin of all. And elsewhere Allah calls the Jews as the Zaalimoon. The wrongdoers. Likewise there are many passages where Allah speaks of the non-Muslims. And no where are they described in a positive sense.

So we should not respect them for what they believe in. We respect them and treat them well because they are human beings. And because treating others well is an aspect of Islamic character.

But in no does this mean we accept their false deities or their false religion nor should we ever become lenient towards them.

[Musafira]

Qrratugai indeed we are all going round and round in circles because most of us are not objective when it comes to our religion. The very belief in superiority to a certain faith is usually part of what defines us as a follower of that particular faith.

Qrratugai I see your point and if one does look at all religions objectively (uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices) they are indeed of equal value. Most people here, as I'm sure you have noticed, are incapable or unwilling to look at things objectively

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Qrratugai indeed we are all going round and round in circles because most of us are not objective when it comes to our religion. The very belief in superiority to a certain faith is usually part of what defines us as a follower of that particular faith.

Qrratugai I see your point and if one does look at all religions objectively (uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices) they are indeed of equal value. Most people here, as I'm sure you have noticed, are incapable or unwilling to look at things objectively

This is not a fair assessment and very arrogant of you to say.

Are you a Muslim, if not, what is your faith? let us start with this statement.

[Musafira]

I think it's rather sad that as soon as someone here tries to explain or point things out in an objective manner that they are immediately attacked. Talk about arrogant lol.

I stand by that statement "Most people here, as I'm sure you have noticed, are incapable or unwilling to look at things objectively".

I myself am not objective when it comes to certain things and nor did I ever claim to be. My faith is irrelevant to this discussion but yes I am a Muslim and I do believe in it being the correct path. Does that mean I have to disrespect other religions or opinions?

I also said The very belief in superiority to a certain faith is usually part of what defines us as a follower of that particular faith and I believe for most of that is true.

I don't know why it is so hard to grasp the concept that objectively all religions have an equal value to their followers. This is a pointless argument and I'm done

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Momin, it doesn't matter what her faith is. The fact is that through the eyes of a neutral spectator, all religions are the same. They are unverifiable beliefs at best and I see no reason why a person looking in from the outside should prefer Islamic and Jewish monotheism over Christian Trinitarian monotheism, Hindu Polytheism over Nordic Paganism or native American Shamanism/Pantheism over Salafism. For him, they're all sets of beliefs that people may or may not choose to believe.

However, for the follower of each religion, his or her God would be greater than all the other Gods. One Germanic tribe adopted Christianity because they learned that the Christian God died and came back to life. They believed that having such a powerful ally would be of great benefit to them. Anyway, this was at least true before Christianity became widespread. Post-Christian thought dictated that your God was true and the rest of the Gods were mere idols. Religious absolutism began here. "THIS is the truth, the rest is falsehood".

[Saifullah]

I think it's rather sad that as soon as someone here tries to explain or point things out in an objective manner that they are immediately attacked. Talk about arrogant lol.

I stand by that statement "Most people here, as I'm sure you have noticed, are incapable or unwilling to look at things objectively".

I myself am not objective when it comes to certain things and nor did I ever claim to be. My faith is irrelevant to this discussion but yes I am a Muslim and I do believe in it being the correct path. Does that mean I have to disrespect other religions or opinions?

I also said The very belief in superiority to a certain faith is usually part of what defines us as a follower of that particular faith and I believe for most of that is true.

I don't know why it is so hard to grasp the concept that objectively all religions have an equal value to their followers. This is a pointless argument and I'm done

You made the point yourself.....equal value to their followers! WE are muslims and we dont follow christianity that we are then to believe it has equal value to islam.

Why are you guys even wasting your time on this? Its unbelievable. Why do you guys love stating the obvious. Lewanay saying a christian for him christianity is the best. The humans are free to believe what they want, Allah doesnt need followers. Yes we are allowed to question what we believe in. Ibrahim (as) questioned the creation around him and that enabled him to reject the religion of his forefathers..

[Khan Gul]

Qrratugai,
Khwarzey, In order to put an end to this wrangling, the Qur'aan says: "Behold, God has bought of the Faithful their persons and their possessions, offering them Paradise in return...Rejoice, then, in the bargain you have made, for this is the triumph supreme." And the essence of Muhammad's (pbuh) prophetic mission was that: "I am only a mortal man but He who has created the universe has bidden me to bear His Message to you. In order that you might live in harmony with the plan of His creation, He has commanded me to remind you of His existence, omnipotence and omniscience, and to place before you a program of behavior. If you accept this program, follow me."

Not that I don't respect your views about the equality of all religions, however, in the light of this verse from Qur'aan and the message delivered by the Prophet (pbuh) let me ask you a simple question:

Do you as a Muslim believe that the followers of all other religions, by following their own religions, will earn them this "triumph supreme" (Paradise) after death? If your answer is a positive assertion, i.e., yes, then I am afraid, either you or I have not understood the message of Islam correctly and we need to delve deeply about what we believe. Of course, God does not call for blind subservience on the part of human being but rather appeals to his intellect, so I think, this question, is necessary, so that an integrated image of Islam emerges in its finality in our minds.

[Saifullah]

That is what everyone is forgetting these ayats where Allah is challenging and questioning believers. We dont need others to tell us how to treat religions when our Quran has clearly outlined all these things for us.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I think it's rather sad that as soon as someone here tries to explain or point things out in an objective manner that they are immediately attacked. Talk about arrogant lol.

I stand by that statement "Most people here, as I'm sure you have noticed, are incapable or unwilling to look at things objectively".

I myself am not objective when it comes to certain things and nor did I ever claim to be. My faith is irrelevant to this discussion but yes I am a Muslim and I do believe in it being the correct path. Does that mean I have to disrespect other religions or opinions?

I also said The very belief in superiority to a certain faith is usually part of what defines us as a follower of that particular faith and I believe for most of that is true.

I don't know why it is so hard to grasp the concept that objectively all religions have an equal value to their followers. This is a pointless argument and I'm done

You have proven our case.

No one is disrespecting any other religion, God forbid.

What we are saying is that ALL religions are not equal. If they are then it would be wrong associate yourself with one and not the other. Qrratagai, is saying that ALL religions are equal then she claims to be Muslim. There is a clear contradiction in her practice versus her preaching.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin, it doesn't matter what her faith is. The fact is that through the eyes of a neutral spectator, all religions are the same. They are unverifiable beliefs at best and I see no reason why a person looking in from the outside should prefer Islamic and Jewish monotheism over Christian Trinitarian monotheism, Hindu Polytheism over Nordic Paganism or native American Shamanism/Pantheism over Salafism. For him, they're all sets of beliefs that people may or may not choose to believe.

However, for the follower of each religion, his or her God would be greater than all the other Gods. One Germanic tribe adopted Christianity because they learned that the Christian God died and came back to life. They believed that having such a powerful ally would be of great benefit to them. Anyway, this was at least true before Christianity became widespread. Post-Christian thought dictated that your God was true and the rest of the Gods were mere idols. Religious absolutism began here. "THIS is the truth, the rest is falsehood".

Being neutral does not qualify one to have a solid opinion. One must take a stance. That stance must first be with respect to which is God is the True God. Thereafter, let the discussion start. You can't claim that ALL gods are right. Now can you?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Why? I think the Hindu God is a better definition and a better attempt at the rationalization of the concept of 'God'. The Hindu God/Idol actually has a form and is substance. The Moslem/Abrahamic God is merely a thought. Nothing more. A Trimurti or Ganpati is more likely to be the Creator and has a better chance of being potent than Allah/Yahwe/Father.
Secondly, the definition of Allah is not the sole descretion of the Mohammedan faith. For example, I can claim with as much certainty, reasoning and evidence, perhaps even more, that, for example, I, or my laptop or my mobile phone, or the Three of us, is/are the God.

Perfect!

Whether you are right or wrong is not the question to be debated, however, you have just proven our case. The two religions are different, hence, not "equal."

Thank you!

[muhsina]

The philosophic source of all religions is the same [revelation - whatever it is and the people who claimed to have received it]. The various versions of religions are just various forms of "organised religion" which the clergy have devised to earn their living by exploiting the poor and ignorant masses.

If muslims claim that their religion and hence their prophet is superior to others then this is against quran itself which says:

"la nufariqu bain ahadam minhum" [translation: we do not discriminate among any of the prophets].

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Being neutral does not qualify one to have a solid opinion. One must take a stance. That stance must first be with respect to which is God is the True God. Thereafter, let the discussion start. You can't claim that ALL gods are right. Now can you?

Unfortunately, the evidence suggests that all of them are equally false. At least that's what al-Razi said.