When/why did our cuisines diverge so much?

[Midnight_Sun]

Though as much geo-political and cultural divide the border and the British had imposed, there are still lots of interaction and the influences are everywhere.

Now there are Afghan Turcoman rugs sold as Pakistani; Pakistani restaurants making Mantu and Qaboli, and Afghan restaurants making spicy Biryanis and Indian/Pakistani curries.

It just shows that eventually, when these wars subside and a sense of relative peace arises, the Pashtuns could play a potential role in uniting Afghanistan and Pakistan culturally.

[Khostai]

Thats a good question. And saying that mantu and qaboli palouw are "persian"or tajik/uzback dishes is also not realy convincing. Becouse in Tajikistan and Uzbeckistan peopel don't eat those disches.....Or am I wrong?, last time I checked bolani is also not eaten in the other so called "persian" countries. Afghanistan is the only place were it is served.

Altough the influence of Indian and Persian food is evident, but it is not like a 100% copy, Afghans have made it difrent somehow.....

[DaZahroJaam.]

the stuffed parathas of india and pakistan are quite similar to the bolani.

[Pukhtoon]

Thats a good question. And saying that mantu and qaboli palouw are "persian"or tajik/uzback dishes is also not realy convincing. Becouse in Tajikistan and Uzbeckistan peopel don't eat those disches.....Or am I wrong?, last time I checked bolani is also not eaten in the other so called "persian" countries. Afghanistan is the only place were it is served.

Altough the influence of Indian and Persian food is evident, but it is not like a 100% copy, Afghans have made it difrent somehow.....

To be fair, speaking specifically to Mantoo or Qabili, their definitely from Uzbek/Bukhara origin. You see similar dishes in Uzbek cooking who are lauded for their cooking (historically many of the royal court cooks were taken from these people and slowly these regal dishes made it to the mainstream). However, the Aushak variant is a Kabul thing which is just a different filing. But your right, we have our own variations on things and many dishes have become distinctive and unique to us now like many of our different rice dishes like zamarad pallow, yaqood pallow, narenj pallow, sholah. Certain dishes also just because their similar may not be of borrowed origin like a bolane for example or kebab.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

They serve mantu even in china. Not just central asia. Uzbeksceat uzbeki palow. Qabeli is typical for Tajik in Afghanistan.

[Karachi]

Though as much geo-political and cultural divide the border and the British had imposed, there are still lots of interaction and the influences are everywhere.

Now there are Afghan Turcoman rugs sold as Pakistani; Pakistani restaurants making Mantu and Qaboli, and Afghan restaurants making spicy Biryanis and Indian/Pakistani curries.

It just shows that eventually, when these wars subside and a sense of relative peace arises, the Pashtuns could play a potential role in uniting Afghanistan and Pakistan culturally.

Yup I noticed that in my last trip to Pakistan

[Pukhtoon]

They serve mantu even in china. Not just central asia. Uzbeksceat uzbeki palow. Qabeli is typical for Tajik in Afghanistan.

Yes, although when I mentioned it was of Uzbek/Bukhara origin I meant in terms of how it got to us in Afghanistan. I think Mantoo might come from "Mantow" (sp) which is a dumpling dish served in Korea - it may have its roots there at least with the Mantoo that came to us through the Uzbeks. Although I think Qabili is also Uzbek from everything I have read and heard - most of our foreign dishes are probably from Turkic origin rather then Tajik, I haven't heard of any per-se Afghan Tajik dishes.

[Badlun]

Afghan food is listed below copied from midnight -sun post
1) Nan (bread)
2)Shorba (Shorwa)
3)Qorma (described as meat fried with butter, curry, onions, and flavours)
4) Kofta(round balls of minced meat fried in butter)
5) Shami Kabob (flat minced cakes with layer of slices of ginger, mint, etc)
6)Biryani Palow (rice boiled in meat and steamed)
7)Zarda Palow (rice, sweetened, boiled and steamed, currants (tiny berries), almonds, colored with saffron
8)Rice pudding
10Maghut (sweet jelly dish) I think he is referring to Firini
11) Shir Mal (round flat cakes, slightly sweetened)

All these except Mantu & Qaboli are also Indian/Punjabi or Pakistani dishes. It means Afghanistan(non Pashtun part) has similar dishes as found in South Asia. This is because of the interaction of Afghans with India and Pakistan in past.

Pashtun being mainly tribal and rural people never had such elaborate dishes on both sides of the Durand line. Pashtuns never had restaurants as hospitality was always at home. Even emergence of hotels in Pashtun areas is a recent phenomena.

I have been to Pashtun homes on both sides and their food in rural areas is almost the same. In cities in Afghan part you see influence of Tajik or Central Asian food and in Pakistani part you have influence of Indian/ South Asian food.

Thus this thread has no base to discuss that how Afghan food did not reach Pakistani side of Pashtuns. On both sides Pashtuns still have similar food except in commercial and urban venues.

[Pukhtoon]

Afghan food is listed below copied from midnight -sun post
1) Nan (bread)
2)Shorba (Shorwa)
3)Qorma (described as meat fried with butter, curry, onions, and flavours)
4) Kofta(round balls of minced meat fried in butter)
5) Shami Kabob (flat minced cakes with layer of slices of ginger, mint, etc)
6)Biryani Palow (rice boiled in meat and steamed)
7)Zarda Palow (rice, sweetened, boiled and steamed, currants (tiny berries), almonds, colored with saffron
8)Rice pudding
10Maghut (sweet jelly dish) I think he is referring to Firini
11) Shir Mal (round flat cakes, slightly sweetened)

All these except Mantu & Qaboli are also Indian/Punjabi or Pakistani dishes. It means Afghanistan(non Pashtun part) has similar dishes as found in South Asia. This is because of the interaction of Afghans with India and Pakistan in past.

Pashtun being mainly tribal and rural people never had such elaborate dishes on both sides of the Durand line. Pashtuns never had restaurants as hospitality was always at home. Even emergence of hotels in Pashtun areas is a recent phenomena.

I have been to Pashtun homes on both sides and their food in rural areas is almost the same. In cities in Afghan part you see influence of Tajik or Central Asian food and in Pakistani part you have influence of Indian/ South Asian food.

Thus this thread has no base to discuss that how Afghan food did not reach Pakistani side of Pashtuns. On both sides Pashtuns still have similar food except in commercial and urban venues.

I wish people would read a post before responding to it with such strong responses and conclusions. It comes off as silly when someone makes a hard conclusion about something but have failed to even understand the central point of the thread.

The thread admits that the current cuisine considered as Afghan amongst Pashtoons has borrowed elements - the actual point of the thread was about why those borrowed elements did not make it to the other side of the Durrand given our being one country at one time while it made it to areas of current Afghanistan much farther away from Turkic and Tajik peoples then other areas in KPK like Pekhawar. Thus, there is a basis to discuss this issue but there is no basis for your conclusion that there is not based on the topic of the original post.

[Admin Khan]

[MENTION=15589]Pukhtoon[/MENTION]

I think it has to do with the fact that Pashtuns are a big minority in Pakistan. It is hard to influence others, and generally Pashtuns are not influential. Pashtuns are known to quickly drop their culture and assimilate. Due to the fact that Punjabis are the majority in Pakistan, it is no surprise that some Pashtuns of Pakistan have embraced daal over the aforementioned meals.

Best,

[Pukhtoon]

@Pukhtoon

I think it has to do with the fact that Pashtuns are a big minority in Pakistan. It is hard to influence others, and generally Pashtuns are not influential. Pashtuns are known to quickly drop their culture and assimilate. Due to the fact that Punjabis are the majority in Pakistan, it is no surprise that some Pashtuns of Pakistan have embraced daal over the aforementioned meals.

Best,

I guess what your saying would make sense if we never existed together as a country. My whole point is that the borrowed cuisine spreads to other areas and we took it as our own now, and it did so into areas of modern Afghanistan farther away from the source of these Turkic dishes, i.e., the North then other areas of KPK closer to them like Pekhawar. So whether Pashtoons are a minority now I don't think is relevant to a cuisine they could have adopted hundreds of years ago when we (Afghanistan and KPK/FATA) were a common country.

I believe it comes down to one of a few factors:

1. KPK and FATA were always as distant from Afghanistan as they are now and the creation of Pakistan really didn't change anything as far as our ties go.

2. We did have strong ties on both sides of the Durrand before its implementation but, the cuisine we now consider "Afghan" staples were adopted during the different British incursions and our contact was limited so the cuisine didn't spread and eventually the creation of Pakistan nipped in the bud completely any chance of it spreading.

3. The modern cuisine adopted in Afghanistan, Pashtoon and non-Pashtoon alike, is a recent phenomenon, i.e. post-Durrand and therefore had no chance to spread to the Pakistan side.

Or a combination of the three or some other factors as well.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

The whole idea of dhaal being a Pakistani staple food is bogus. I am from Kabul and i csn tell you we Kabulis eat allot dhaal, mash, baquli and chick peas. Its tasty nutricious food for the poor. Mocking people for eating is just plain stupid.

[Karachi]

daal/dhaal was eaten everywhere in south asia, it has been there for thousands of years as a food. Even though I dont eat too much Dhaal, but whenever Dhal/Chawal(rice with Dhaal) is cooked, it is delicious

actually lentil soup is eaten everywhere, Iran, Middle East, Europe etc...

[Kushan Prince]

Well i disagree. Pashtun culture and cuisine are very unique.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_cuisine

Did you know Turwey is a pashtun drink that was was still drinked in ancient times?

[Badlun]

I wish people would read a post before responding to it with such strong responses and conclusions. It comes off as silly when someone makes a hard conclusion about something but have failed to even understand the central point of the thread.

The thread admits that the current cuisine considered as Afghan amongst Pashtoons has borrowed elements - the actual point of the thread was about why those borrowed elements did not make it to the other side of the Durrand given our being one country at one time while it made it to areas of current Afghanistan much farther away from Turkic and Tajik peoples then other areas in KPK like Pekhawar. Thus, there is a basis to discuss this issue but there is no basis for your conclusion that there is not based on the topic of the original post.

I have read the thread very well and still my opinion is that on both sides Pashtuns still have similar food except in commercial and urban venues. In kandahar you may have the so called Afghan food in restaurants but at homes mainly people have traditional food. The same is true for any Pashtun village any where in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

On commercial level you will very much find Afghan food in Peshawar, Islamabad, Quetta, Karachi even Lahore in the same way you find it in Kandahar, Jalal Abad or Kabul. There is no as such any Afghan food. It is the same central Asian food which you also find in India with addition of few other dishes mainly of lentils and pulses.

To summarize Pashtun on both sides of the border have similar food at their homes and rural areas. In commercial places you have Afghan food which is almost the same you find in India and Pakistan. The origin of this elaborated food is Central Asia not Afghanistan.