Evolution theory contradicts the Quran and Hadiths

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Scientific theory is something good for scientist to waste alot of public tax money to do goose chasing while at it getting filty rich.

If you know enough about science to reject scientific theories; then you should know the difference between the common usage of the word "theory" and the Scientific usage of "Theory".

Please give us the proper Scientific definition of theory if you know enough to reject it.

[کیش]

If it's "man's science" how is it that it works independently of human influence, how do computers and electricity work? How is it most of the theories of literal interpretations have been proven completely false and inaccurate BY science. Not just the idea of humans being made by clay, but things such as the Earth being held up by invisible pillars; if we took it as being literal, would be completely wrong.

If you think science is an "intermediary", then why did God send Prophets, are they also not intermediaries BY DEFINITION, since it's not God "directly" corresponding to mankind? and isn't science merely just studying Nature ...and how Nature works...and isn't God responsible for the functions and operations of Nature?

the problem with your argument is that it seems ignore these important questions and fall into many internal contradictions as a result,

Okay buddy, enjoy science. You are smart cause of it.

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^^^

Stephen Hawkings did not say that, he said that there is no scientific evidence of god. Also, how the big bang created itself and not by god.

So we should reject scientific evidence because a scientist has an opinion on something contrary to some dogma you hold. Bear in mind even if Stephen Hawkings doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean he used science to disprove God.

Him saying that "science has no evidence of God" is exactly that; science is about testability, beyond the Quantum scale of magnitude things become no longer measurable and thus not testable. Science can only operate on the scales of measurability, thus the issue of God's existence is not a scientific matter.

You can't pretend the real world around us is not actually happening; that the DNA of humans shows links with the DNA of other apes. That we do not possess any markedly high degree of Silicate Polymers, something which would show if humans or any other animal were actually LITERALLY made from clay.

You see these Science men are wasting their time. What's the point of all this if you ain't got no Deen in you?

It helps humanity understand what is going on around them. Call me crazy but knowledge generally helps people.

Why would god waste his time and mentioned "created from clay" close to a dozen times in the Quran? Where does it say to ignore some parts of the Quran, and follow the other?

Why would God create nature in a way which shows we're not actually literally made from clay if he meant created from clay Literally? Why would he made DNA look like Polymerized Amino Acids as opposed to Polymerized silicates (i.e. literal clay)?

Do you like to make a scientific interpretation if god's verses, when god is the only one who knows the true meanings?

If God is the only one who knows the true meanings; then you're admitting that many parts of the Qur'an are not actually literal and that there are alternate meanings.

By logic if God is the "creator" then God is responsible for Nature; and science is just the study of Nature, therefore isn't the Evidence from Nature just another way God is showing us what he means by the verses?

Let's look at the verse itself; since you don't know Arabic I'll just focus on translation

Surah Imran 3:7:
"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."

the verse is referring to those who use the allegorical to stir DISCHORD, meaning create problems between Muslims; this could apply to people who reject science or Naturally verifiable evidence to keep Muslims from empowering themselves. This would also apply to people who try to say Qur'an is not applicable at by claiming it's all allegory, which is just as extreme a position as literalism.

But what we can grasp here is that there are IN FACT Allegorical verses, and that they're knowable by men otherwise knowledge of their existence would not be discerned as indicated in the verse.

Also it's referring to "hidden meanings" meaning meanings of the Ghaib, Science isn't "Ghaib" it's "dhahir" which means it's knowable apparently.

and lastly it says "and no one comprehends except men of understanding" in Arabic وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

it uses the word yadhakkaru, which refers to knowledge or comprehension, which comes from the word Dhakkarah which means recollection, rememberance, and oloo refers to men/humanity/people but the final word is "albabi" the word in Arabic comes from the word Labab, which literally means the Stem or core of the Brain, which refers to the Mind and Intellectual capacity of a human being.

The verses have to be read in the right context, it doesn't mean humans cannot understand the allegories; it means God only grants this to people who seek knowledge.

I love how you and the others bring the Quranic verses, which refers to The all-Mighty sitting in his throne. You clearly deny that and say it's false.

Obviously, why would a being that is beyond mortal comprehension need a throne, which Mortal beings sit on because they're tired; a thrones are where Kings recline. God doesn't tire, as he says in Ayatul Kursi

"La' Takhuthuhu sinatun wa la' naum"

Whether its the truth or false, your still making a unique interpretation of the Quranic verses. Which makes it suitable for you, and that is what God talks about in 3:7. Seeking it's Allegorical interpretation, while you do not know it's true interpretation as the knowledge is only with god

Not at all, we're using other verses of the Qur'an and also Nature' were not just arbitrarily taking our own meanings, we're using the meanings Allah(swt) gives in the Qur'an; if God says he can't tire, then no way that sitting on a throne would be literal; it must mean his Power. If God developed Nature, then there's no way he made man from clay in the literal sense, because Nature shows we're made of proteins and amino acids, which are totally different composition than silicates (literal clay) because. Everything we're referring to in essence comes straight from God's signs.

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Okay buddy, enjoy science. You are smart cause of it.

Let's use reason here.....how do you explain human tissue is composed of things totally different than the compounds that make up clay if God was literally meaning clay as opposed to earthly materials in general?

[کیش]

God knows best.

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Khusal

I havent been refuted, but people like you Scmitar and have been proved to not belief in certain parts of the Quran as it doesn't come in terms with your Scientific "Beliefs"

That's not true, we believe in ALL of the Qur'an; just not certain types of interpretations.

We have to make that distinction; in fact it is because we believe in all of the Qur'an that we don't follow the interpretation that you and others seem to follow.

Here's are some verses i want you to examine.

Surah Al-Jathiyah verse 3-5
إِنَّ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ لَآيَاتٍ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ
وَفِي خَلْقِكُمْ وَمَا يَبُثُّ مِن دَابَّةٍ آيَاتٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُوقِنُونَ
وَاخْتِلَافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ وَمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مِن رِّزْقٍ فَأَحْيَا بِهِ الْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا وَتَصْرِيفِ الرِّيَاحِ آيَاتٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

As you can observe from the subject of the verse/context it's referring to studying and observing Natural Phenomenon; in Islam we to evidence that God sends mankind as signs, observe here that the verse is referring to Nature and aspects of Nature as "signs". When people are understanding science they're using signs that God as the Developer of Nature has imprinted. So in actuality we're studying what Qur'an has suggested to understand what the Qur'an actually means.

Obviously a materialistic atheist like LZ will belief in Anything nonsense presented too him, perhaps your an atheist too. If you are an Atheist, then I apologize if I assumed you were a Muslim.

This is a logical fallacy, you don't become an Atheist because you are intellectually convinced of how science describes the processes and phenomenon of our universe.

Nor does being an Atheist necessarily entail being based on scientific grounds. The two are not necessarily linked together.

PLEASE

Show me Islamic sources which says Muslims should not follow half the Quran? As what you losers say. Please do. Their is none, so good luck. Even if the lord says allegorical, where does it say not to belief in his words?

It's you who are actually following the Qur'an partially I just demonstrated that the Qur'an itself tells us to examine what's in Nature to see God's signs and understand what he is teaching us.

Like I said last thread, Stephen Hawkings is notably the "Smartest man in the world" and he doesn't belief in god, cause their isnt any "scientific evidence" of his existence. That is where your going to be headed.

Who cares; you need to separate between commentaries and evidence. That's your problem, you're blinded by ignorance of your emotions, instead of knowing how to address the subject clearly and make a clear distinction you start to panic, because a scientist made an opinion. If anything Stephen Hawkings appears to be denying the traditional Theological ideas of God as being some person who sits and tinkers with things to cause them to happen.

The issue of God' existence and the issue of evolution are EXCLUSIVE topics.

In my opinion your insistence on absolute literalism; even when you acknowledge the Qur'an indicates the existence of allegory within the Qur'an is similarly to Christianity: this is how the Jews and Christians went. I would argue you're heading to becoming a Christian, not us becoming Atheists.

Also,

After answering my above questions, please show me how Hanuman the Gorilla father of mankind will help the plight of Muslims. Your assaults and emotional blackmailing is not an answer.

Well easy because of people rejecting the study of evolution; many important medical breakthroughs and studies are being hindered, this makes us perpetually dependent on western societies for medicine and supplies rather than breaking free from their control and independently developing our own. This allows Imperialists a way to push their culture on us and in turn causes people to think that they cannot find solutions in Islam; which will eventually defeat your whole agenda to keep Islam and Muslims pure from corruption anyways; In fact it will set it up to take precedence. The study of evolution is crucial because we can study how our genetic and biochemical make up developed and that way isolate precisely the mechanisms that operate them.

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God knows best.

and you say you don't have blind faith?

[کیش]

and you say you don't have blind faith?

Wow, we have modern-day Musaylimah here.

Fine, let me rephrase that for you, cause you have the same knowledge as God.

Mahmoud knows best.

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isn't this an attempt at emotional blackmailing? evolution is a THEORY not necessarily a FACT. it might be true, i don't know but it hasn't been proven to my satisfaction.
i don't believe in it and i don't want to burn anyone at the stake either.

actually Evolution is a Theory and a Fact; the word Theory doesn't mean "guess" . Theory in science means principles which govern certain phenomenon

for example there's a "theory of electromagnetism" would you deny that electromagnetism exists because the word "theory" is used?

This is how theory is used in respects to evolution. So it's not "Just theory"; it's a reality with TONS of evidence to support it.

Where is your evidence that this evidence is false?

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Wow, we have modern-day Musaylimah here.

Fine, let me rephrase that for you, cause you have the same knowledge as God.

Mahmoud knows best.

What about when God tells you directly in the Qur'an, that he leaves his signs in Nature.

is that claiming that you have the same knowledge as God?

You people use the lamest scapegoats, very cowardly.

[کیش]

Mahmoud Musaylimah knows best.

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can you show us some evidence and why would people waste time on a theory if they know it is false from beginning?

How do you know it's false from the beginning when you don't study or research it. You're basically admitting to relying on ignorance.

why havent the fish changed.

Evolution happens due to environmental influence on Natural selection; species that reach a niche, don't show much evolutionary changes because the environment is viable enough for them that natural selection allows most genomes to perpetuate. and thus the net change remains the same. This happens to varying degrees based on multitude of environmental factors and different rates of gene propagation.

but you're actually wrong; some fish have evolved other species. We can observe this by studying their genetic markers and their chromosomal compatibility.

Evolution in the Deepest River in the World | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine

i can understand you guys have had Biology at your schools which taught you evolution theory and i had the same education.

Most of us have a college education; and many of us have advanced degrees in various sciences, we're not merely filled with propaganda posters. You can't get a degree unless you have HANDS ON experience in some subjects.

I have an undergraduate degree in Environmental Science, and doing a Graduate Degree in Applied Mathematics (Modeling of Physical Systems). Part of our curriculum in Environmental Science is Ecology, this is the study of Organisms and their relationship to their Environment; one of the subjects we dealt with was with HOW species acquire new genetic traits to such a degree they become genetically incompatible with the species they came from. This indicates becoming a new species.

btw who said evolution theory has a monopoly on science or the people who dont believe in allah have monopoly on science?

The fact that every serious accredited scientist whether atheist or non-atheist acknowledges it.

Sure you may find creation science people who reject it, and sure many of these people MAY have degrees, BUT They have done ZERO ACTUAL Experimental Research; if anything it's their arguments which are based on guesses, poorly supported guesses at that.

as far as i know science comes from religion and not from lack of it.

It comes from studying things and keeping an open mind and actually GOING OUT and doing experiments to test your hypothesis. I.e. the scientific Method

Not "Mullah sahib said so"

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Mahmoud Musaylimah knows best.

i like how you ignored the fact I pointed out what the Qur'an says

so much for you actually caring about following the Qur'an....looks like you're in fact guilty of what you accuse Khushal and I of.....ignoring the verses that don't serve your agenda.

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^^^^

Are you seriously comparing a Donkey-Kong theory, to suicide bombing.

Just saying, I could care less what you dudes belief in anymore.

No what he's saying that our lack of scientific development; and ignoring evidences we can observe in Nature just to maintain some false Blind faith in some superficial interpretation, prevents us from applying knowledge which can help us effectively defend our societies from Kufar and keeps us vulnerable to them and thus leads to using desperate tactics as suicide bombing

this Logical Fallacy of "Donkey Kong" theory is nonsense since Evolution doesn't say Monkeys or Gorillas are our ancestors; but that we share a Common ancestor with all other currently existing primates.

If you're going to ridicule something, you should do it accurately ...because let's face it you're arguing the same ideas as CHistians do.

[کیش]

Sure buddy, yes I am aware of those verses. It's the reason why I have changed my major from Business Adminitration to Biological sciences. I would like to know what these uncle-tom's are coming from.

Until then please educate us, on Evolution your majesty (am serious, the stage is yours)

Also on how Evolution theory can rise muslims like a Pheonix.