Afghan-Soviet war

[Catya Sher]

Also, Ulfserker,
were the mock figures in the coffins sent back to the Soviet-controlled countries
used every time?
Or only when there was some cover up like you explained above,
or mutilation or other problem?

So the mock figures were standard?
Were some coffins sent back just empty, do you happen to have heard ?

It's REALLY amazing that they would do that.
Think what the mother would have felt when she saw that.

[Ulfserker]

It would be neat to find him as well and interview him to hear all of the details.

Yes, Afghanistan war veterans have their union in Georgia, so it will be possible to get in touch.

what kind of name is that ? A Georgian one I haven't heard of ?

It has kypchak turkic roots, but quite spread. Possible you heard the name "Jaba", which is derived from Jambul.

What on the tank would have jammed ? The gearshift ? I was IN one of those T-54 tanks but not in action of course, just one that one of the commanders had for show.

No, not tank. It was supply vehicle. Engine was jammed.

My version is, that mujahideen captured both of them, as bodies were not found nearby. They were repairing the vehicle so they were not in combat ready situation and imprisoned in sudden attack. After the mujahideen blown up supply vehicle.

The Mujahideen would have proudly announced about them USUALLY if they had captured them. It was a source of great prestige to capture any of the Shuravi alive.

Yes, but the column do not committed great searches, as in letter Shkvarko writes - local population is extremely hostile, so searches did not give any results.

were the mock figures in the coffins sent back to the Soviet-controlled countries
used every time?
Or only when there was some cover up like you explained above,
or mutilation or other problem?

In some situations, when cover-up was needed, they sent coffins with mock-ups, when body was dismembered or mutilated, they sent body but insisted not to open coffin. (Coffin was also made by the zinc or tin and was hermetically closed)

Were some coffins sent back just empty, do you happen to have heard ?

Just empty coffin would be very easy to expose, because of weight. Soldier was at least 75 kg, so such weight must be placed in.

Now let us move to Tayyar's booklet. It is one chapter named "People, loyal to international friendship"

Interesting quotes:

Friendly afghanistan people and government several times asked sending soviet soldiers to defend them from imperialist mercenary gangsters, who are killing innocents, burning their property, destroying schools and hospitals, want to install inhuman rules and repeat what they have done in Chile.

USSR was unable to reject this pleas and sent limited contingent (Soviet forces in Afghanistan always were called limited contingent) to defend friendly people. But the west spent millions of dollars to defame this aid! They refer to this aid as "Occupation", but as afghan proverb says: "it is impossible to cover sun with hands" (By the way, such proverb exists?) Let us overview what our soldier do in afghanistan. They defend main administrative and production centers, transitions of food, supplies and medicaments. Nearby Islamic republics, Pakistan and Iran, are training and sending thousands of Dushmans in afghanistan, supplied by world imperialist powers by newest weaponry. This is why our limited contingent is forced to intervene.

West claims that "Soviet occupiers razed qishlaqs", (Middle asian villages are called so) But let us see what really happens - soviet personnel saved small girl Zarifa when she set foot on gangster's booby trap! And when soviet soldiers took her to hospital, Andrey Ivanov, soviet surgeon worked day and night to save her life, and he succeeded. After Zarifa was healed, her mother told Ivanov - "Tashakor fezeshke shuravi" (Thank you soviet doctor)

Further quotes will be just as I translate.

Must note, this booklet was good try to turn tide of informational war of soviet bloc countries and wash the blood off from SA.

[Catya Sher]

Ulfserker,
You're great!
That booklet is so funny!
I remember about "the Limited Contingent" now, how they used that term all the time. So comical - 120,000 or so soldiers LIMITED ?
What would a "Full Contingent" have numbered?!

I really laughed at so much of that, like about Chile, their pretense of a humanitarian "aid" operation - the whole thing is hysterically funny.

How they may have made an Afghan proverb - maybe some people here on this Forum will know whether it's a real one or not - it SOUNDS like it COULD be, but also it's too convenient.
Perhaps the writer heard someone say this once and used it to cite as a proverb to make the Soviets sound like they DEEPLY UNDERSTAND Afghan culture and society.
The Zarifa story is so typical of Soviet propaganda, I'm sure.
The gangster term is so funny too for Mujahideen - I can't stop laughing, the whole thing is charming propaganda...

I wonder how many Afghan girls were REALLY taken to hospitals by Shuravi, let alone SAVED by them.
Maybe 4 or 5 - just for the Pravda articles !

[Catya Sher]

Is the reunion of Afghan Veterans each year ?
Are you going to be there any year?
I think it would be the most fascinating subject to ask
Archil - [I didn't know the name was from a Georgian King-Poet, thanks!
I like Rustaveli by the way with his concept of Chivalry]
LOTS OF QUESTIONS about his captivity.
It would be SO INTERESTING.
Probably a lot of his days were very dull, but still just to see how he
was treated by the Mujahideen.

I'd like to know WHICH PARTY [Hizb] Fazluddin was in, or if not, about his
background and whether he is alive today and WHERE - in Afghanistan, fighting with
resistance, or went with Kabul govt, or not even alive?

About the other two, do you think they were killed after capture by Mujahideen?
I would be sorry for that : they should have bargained and gotten some exchange for the two.

I guess there's a tiny possible scenario that they stayed living in Afghanistan.
But surely they would have sent word to families or tried to escape during the chaos after 1992 fall of the Najib Communist regime?

[Catya Sher]

Thanks for clarifying the other questions, too, even about the Kipchak Turkish roots of the guy's name !
I've heard of Jaba yes, but not the full name.
I like to learn !

Final point about the coffins: I had thought they were ALL hermetically sealed.
That's why I was surprised about the mother who able to pry it open.
Maybe that was in the first days when the Soviets didn't realize
that families would try to do that and thus discover the truth, then word would get out and scare the population into questioning the Soviet "aid mission" in Afghanistan.

Who was Tayyar, by the way?

[Ulfserker]

Is the reunion of Afghan Veterans each year ?

No, I mean that Veterans of afghan war have their organization.

The Zarifa story is so typical of Soviet propaganda, I'm sure.

Yes, in several different occasions I read such stories about civilian going in field and is wounded by booby-trap of Mujahideen.

Probably a lot of his days were very dull, but still just to see how he
was treated by the Mujahideen.

There was two periods - first he seems to be treated not bad, because he survived malaria and if he was ill-treated, he could not. And after he tried to escape treatment worsened.

I'd like to know WHICH PARTY [Hizb] Fazluddin was

Question is bit difficult to answer. Archil mentioned the Fadhl al-Din organization as "Baslam", What is Baslam? I think it is misspelled Hezb e-Islami.

About the other two, do you think they were killed after capture by Mujahideen?

Possible not immediately after capture, but some afterwards, or they died themselves by some reasons.

Who was Tayyar, by the way?

Orientalist historian. He also has book named "Conflicts between Iran and Ottomans and their boundaries". Surname is not Georgian, so I think he is from one of ethnic minorities, as in his booklet calls Georgia as "Our republic" (Example: Our republic sent there aid and other such nuances).

[Catya Sher]

Did you get to speak to Archil, then?
Baslam doesn't mean anything that I happen to have heard.
It does sound like Islam and Hizb run together...
I surely would like to know, and even track down this Fazluddin or see if still alive today
Wouldn't it be a nice documentary to interview both of them ?!
What would he have done if he escaped, anyway ?
By himself, an obvious foreigner, he presumably would not have been able to go very far. it was in Baghlan right?
How did Archil get out? Were the guards sleeping and he ran past them, which sometimes has occurred?

[Ulfserker]

By himself, an obvious foreigner, he presumably would not have been able to go very far.

Besides this, he also was sick with malaria so the guards did not pay great attention, hoping that he will not escape. This allowed him to get away, but pursuers found him after almost 2 hours.

it was in Baghlan right?

He was captured in Baghlan wilayah near Khinjan, but then he was moved to different location.

[Ulfserker]

YouTube - ‫افغانستان ١٤Ù*Ù¦ ავღანეთáƒ

[Catya Sher]

Ulfserker,
that's amazing: who made this in Georgia or Georgian script?
You might want to post somewhere else where people will see better.
This thread gets confusing with so much else that none may have seen
your question about the video.

I would be curious to hear about your background and experience.
Are you temporarily or permanently in Lebanon ?
Is it nice ?
Do you miss the mountains of Georgia ?!

But don't worry if you wish to keep that to yourself.

How did Archil recover from malaria - because Mujahideen didn't have
much in the way of medical supplies.
Did they give him quinine tablets, or - ?

it must have been MISERABLE to be away from home, all by himself, no one to speak to - [did he learn any Pashto or other language during his captivity?]
and THEN to get sick on top of THAT feeling of being abandoned.

What is he doing with his life now?
Does he go to Church, I wonder, with the revival of the Georgian Church?