Medical Thread

[BarakzaiAbdali]

BarakzaiAbdali,

Unfortunately, even those who are passionate are beginning to see no value in a medical degree. The pain and misery, not to mention outrageous debt, is a big turn-off. That's what I have gathered from my research. Going to school for about 10-12 years, graduating with nearly half a million in debt(on average I assume)is just disastrous and simply unacceptable to most -- to say the least.

STEM majors(Computer Science, EE,CpE)seem to have it way better. Allow me to reiterate, just in case someone misinterprets my post, if someone is interested in becoming a doctor, be my guest. One should however, take into account the amount of financial headaches that comes with it. They should also look into an ABET accredited B.S/B.E degree that head-hunters are going crazy for. New York for instance is having such a hard time filling up Computer Science related jobs, that they are going as far as construction a new graduate university. Recently, Electrical Engineers are struggling as well due to the poor economy. Most EE's end up as investment bankers, unfortunately.

True Admin... the stress of it all has turned the front of my jeeraah gray earlier than my dad's was, lol. I always tell my wife that no one understands qiyamaah like a doctor because you take these random 8-12 hour tests with hundreds of questions and stress for the next 6 weeks wondering where your lot fell (heavan or hell, lol!).

I have to commend my koor walaa for being able to suffer these repeated stresses with me.

But at the end of this process I feel ready for so many challenges.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

An awesome program for New Yorkers:

BS MD Program

Not a bad deal... but there appears to be catch. Is this paid for by the state? The reason being, they make you sign some service contract to be a primary care physician in an underserved area... I dont know how they enforce that though. The down side of that, if they dont cover your tuition would be that would you would have to rely on your primary care earnings to deal with your debt.

Ill read more into this.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Well my Pashtuns,

A colleague directed me to some interesting information that may be of utility of its the loan debt that scares you away from medicine. First and foremost, remember that physicians are amongst the least likely to renege on repaying their loans, and also remember that they also have the capability rapidly deal with the principal.

However, should these issues still concern you or your parents, direct them to this site:

https://www.aamc.org/services/first/...rgiveness.html

Basically:

According to our institution' financial aid advisor, if you remain within the academic sphere for ten years, this is a good program for loans. You pay the minimum payment each month x 10 years, then they forgive the rest.

Remember, at the end of the day the economy will be less likely to impact physicians in the academic arena and should they be in private practice, the mobility to academics is very easy and rapid.

[Admin Khan]

BA,
That link for CCNY that I had posted, is it true that within that program, a student is not required to take the MCAT?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

BA,
That link for CCNY that I had posted, is it true that within that program, a student is not required to take the MCAT?

Salamoona Admin,

There are a number of reserved seat programs like that... such as NEOUCOM in Ohio, Brown Universities MD PhD program, Vanderbilt Universities reserved seat entry from the college level...

I dont know how I feel about that aspect of things because studies show that the MCAT may provide some basis to predict how one will do on their USMLE board exams. Medicine training demands that one understand preparedness of a long gauntlet of exams even into subspeciality training. The idea there is that when its found out that you can keep a patient on for example a drug that controls heart rate and another that thins the blood and the outcomes are the same generally as if you force cardiovert a patient in atrial fibrillation, these exams try to ensure that your doctor knows that science has advanced enough to offer the patient the chance to not be cardioverted and simply rely on medical management.

I think the prestigious Northwestern medical school also has a reserved seat pathway to avoid the MCAT.

That being said, I knew a great friend of mine that was a fellow engineer, got into reserved seat pathway and did so well in med school, without ever having to see the MCAT, that he is a radiation oncology resident now (thats one of the most competitive specialties). So I understand completely if a very sharp person such as yourself, Admin Khan, for instance decided it was not worth it to try and deal with the MCAT (because you probably would have done very well on it as engineers tend to get some of the higher scores due to the fact that we dominate the very curved physics portion). So side stepping this would make your life easier and more enjoyable and allow you to begin working towards what really matters (the USMLE step 1) .

[Admin Khan]

Barakzai Sahab, I appreciate your encouragement. So once you pass the USMLE, you are 'in' or do you have to keep on renewing your physician license(if there is such a thing). You know most ABET-accreddited graduates don't even bother with a P.E(except Civil Engineers) so I'm sort of wondering how the process of USMLE works.

Thanks.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai Sahab, I appreciate your encouragement. So once you pass the USMLE, you are 'in' or do you have to keep on renewing your physician license(if there is such a thing). You know most ABET-accreddited graduates don't even bother with a P.E(except Civil Engineers) so I'm sort of wondering how the process of USMLE works.

Thanks.

Salamoona My Respected Pashtun Brother, May God keep you happy.

So the deal with the Step 1 of the USMLE, (there are 3 steps in total) is that you take it after your 2 basic science years of medical school where they teach you the pathological basis of disease in relation to genetics, biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, etc. That single test determines what speciality you can hope for. There are exceptions of course where folks with the right amount of research and the right connections can overcome a luke warm score. However, that is rare because the meritocratic part of the American's process is that they have guys like you designing computerized filters that auto weed out folks below a certain threshold score.

The Step 2 is divided into 2 parts. The first is similar to the Step 1 but tests clinical diagnosis and the second tests your efficiency with interacting with 12 simulated patients. You must take this around the end of med school.

The Step 3 is generally taken as an intern resident.

So out of all of these, the step 1 matters the most to those folks that want to apply for the lucrative and "easy" living subspecialities of radiology, opthalmology, dermatology, radiation oncology. Future budding Orthopedists also have to do very well.

Once you pass these series, your next test is your board certification in your specialty. If you do general surgery or internal medicine as a gateway to subspecialization you get board certified in either of these and then you also test in your subspeciality. Then, to get certification in the sub sub speciality you also have to board certify).

So here is a practical write up of it for generalists:

Med school years1/2 ---> Step 1
MEd school years 3/4 --> Step 2 (both components)
Internship ---> STep 3
End of residency ---> Board certificaiton in speciality
Subspeciality ---> Board certification
----> Sub sub speciality ---> Board certification

Subsequently: easy to do recertifications that are supplemented by continuing medical education credits.

I pray God give me the strength to pull my people into this field in the droves. Im still young and trying to establish myself in due time. But this is our goal. We Pashtuns must out do the Iranians and the Jews in our loyalities and abilities. Then, we must take this knowledge back to our land and build strong links on a solely civilian and nongovernmental basis between Pashtuns in the West and the East. If the Israelis could build the Technion with help from their brethren, we too can make sure the heart of Pashtun country, Kandahar becomes an oasis of knowledge.

The Pashtuns in Peshawar are already doing this:

http://www.rmc.com.pk/rmc2/index.php...=87&Itemid=171

A few of these faculty names are of people that have passed through the States and I encountered them. They are setting up contacts with Pashtun radiologists, specialists etc. to augment this new experimental brainchild of western trained physician-Pashtuns.

I love my brothers across the line, but Allah says to compete in good things... so our goal should be to compete with our brothers in a healthy way. I dont see this as problematic as Harvard and Yale and Princetone are alway privately competing. Realistically, it may take 75 years... but it can be done. So I think its high time that the basis be laid out for Kandahar to give Peshawar some healthy medical competition.

[Admin Khan]

Respected BarakzaiAbdali sahab,
I appreciate your response. In fact, one of my friends has been following this thread for a while -- and he should be joining in a few days to privately message you for advice. He is presently pre-med, and wants to become a doctor. We were driving in Long Island just the other day, and I told him you can serve as a great e-mentor for him.

As far Technion goes, they recently got the contract to build a high-tech graduate school in NY, which will make NY in direct competition with California. As of now, New York is the financial leader of the world, but in terms of tech-startups, Bloomberg Khan wants to attract those young entrepenours who presently run to Cali to build start ups. Technion and the boys assume that by building this grad school, they will be able to graduate top class Ph.Ds in CS,EE,CpE,etc. Also, Cornell has partnered up with them. I believe they were competing against Stony Brook University, Stanford University, and a few others who have top notch Tech programs.

Thank you once again graana for your precious response.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

For those in high school that are interested in medical research and ways to link your goals in medicine to Afghanistan.. here is an opportunity at Yale in the Ob/Gyn department. Remember, just because you do research in Ob/Gyn, it doesnt obligate you to enter that field in the future. It is a way to get involved and can expand your mind and your CV:

http://medicine.yale.edu/obgyn/research/labs/immunology/intern.aspx

http://medicine.yale.edu/obgyn/image...cm87-13530.pdf

It looks like there are various highs schools that apply to become involved. Perhaps a guidance counselar can be coaxed into trying to apply for your high school to be involved in this. For those here with relatives involved in high schools in Afghanistan, Yale is EXTREMELY receptive to that particular country. It would be nice if someone here could get word back to some local high schools (secondary schools) in southern Afghanistan. My strong preference would be that real locals whose parents are not government affiliated, who have no links to the US emigre elite/international elite, and who derive from the impoverished and down trodden villages, but who are motivated get word of this. Lets create a meritocracy in Afghanistan.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Folks pmed me asking about specific opportunities to augment the CV and get experience in academic medical research as a prelude to applying to med school. Here is a great webpage put out by the AAMC for such a purpose:

https://www.aamc.org/members/great/6...mmerlinks.html

The Mayo and Harvard programs are pretty appealing in that folks from other universities can apply to go to these places and pursue a defined research project.

Enjoy.

[Ahmad Walid]

Salaam Alaikum to everyone.

In need of some advice relating to Medical School.

So far I am in my second semester of Sophomore year and at the the end of this semester I will be finishing my pre-reqs.

My question is should I spend the three months during my summer (Start May 14-August 12, MCAT on August 16) to study for the MCAT only and do some clinical volunteering.

or

Study for MCAT during the summer and take a physiology, beginner research course (6 hours total) and volunteer and then study for one month during December also and take the MCAT in January of my Junior year? Also I will be taking a Biochemistry I and Microbiology course during the fall.

I feel like if I find out that I made a good score on the MCAT, I won't major in BCMB and rather go with something easier to keep my gpa high. Most people in BCMB in my university say they hate it. But if it really helps during medical school or admissions I am willing to go through with it.

BTW I plan on using the 3 month plan posted by one of the users on Student Doctor Forums.

[Al Hanif]

I have TWO cousins in Morocco who did their medical studies in Ukrain. Back in the time, it was part of the Soviet Union.

The problem is that they got their Ph D (General Practitionner) but surprisingly, they didn't do any thesis !

( I'm guessing because as commies, ukrainians wanted to form as many Physicians as possible for 3rd / 2nd world countries )

Here's my question : are they as qualified as an average American / French Physician who sudied in the west ? Or are they less qualified ?

Also, was it common to not do a thesis in the Soviet Union or was it widespread among foreign students ?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Salaam Alaikum to everyone.

In need of some advice relating to Medical School.

So far I am in my second semester of Sophomore year and at the the end of this semester I will be finishing my pre-reqs.

My question is should I spend the three months during my summer (Start May 14-August 12, MCAT on August 16) to study for the MCAT only and do some clinical volunteering.

or

Study for MCAT during the summer and take a physiology, beginner research course (6 hours total) and volunteer and then study for one month during December also and take the MCAT in January of my Junior year? Also I will be taking a Biochemistry I and Microbiology course during the fall.

I feel like if I find out that I made a good score on the MCAT, I won't major in BCMB and rather go with something easier to keep my gpa high. Most people in BCMB in my university say they hate it. But if it really helps during medical school or admissions I am willing to go through with it.

BTW I plan on using the 3 month plan posted by one of the users on Student Doctor Forums.

Salamoona Ahmad Wrorre

Its been a while since I took on that beast of a test. What I would say is that over time I have come to realize

1. You need the baseline indicators to get in somewhere (you have to achieve a reasonable GPA and you must have an MCAT that is competitive). IT doesnt mean that your MCAT has to be 40. The average does go up year after year, but the way recent folks have told it to me is that 30 keeps the door open but to state schools and smaller schools if the rest of your package is good. 32 starts to open the door to the middle tier schools that are respectable in rank/some private institutions. 34+ opens the door to top 10 schools.

2. The rest of the application is important but you need at least teh baseline indicators as per above.

I can tell you about my approach or what I did. I entered college hunting for research positions. I approached labs with the line that if they hired me via federal work study the government pays half my pay. That worked... but I never slept. It involved hours of studying to keep up on the grades but I sort of was able to inch along and accumulate research throughout the years I was there in many different fields because I did work in a new lab each year and basically had 4 research projects in 4 different fields as I went along.

My colleagues did it the way you are talking about and it worked out for them as well. One way to do it is the way a dear old friend of mine did. He got ahold of a q bank of some sort and did 10 questions every day for the year. That meant that no matter what, he would do at least 10 questions and maybe a few more on weekend days/day. So by the end of the school year he had done a huge amount of that question bank. Then he ramped up the studying for a good 2 months hitting it hard 8 am to 8 pm with one day a week to decompress.

My approach gave me the chance to use one whole summer since I had a lot of extracurricular and research stuff from the year going on.

I believe you would apply summer junior year... so if you do so you can do it either way.

One approach might be to line up a research project (I provided some links here) during this summer and start doing what my friend did with some regular but light studying. Then pick up the tempo. Junior year may be hard and the issue may be that you dont want to feel a time crunch, which I understand.

Man, you're making me jog my memories for all those sleepless merciless nights lol.

I look forward to working with you and talking to you about this. I will talk to my kid sister who just matched in optho and is a bit closer to the procecss to ask her what her rigorous regimen was.

She used a series called the exam crackers and really smacked the heck out of the exam.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Salaam Alaikum to everyone.

In need of some advice relating to Medical School.

So far I am in my second semester of Sophomore year and at the the end of this semester I will be finishing my pre-reqs.

My question is should I spend the three months during my summer (Start May 14-August 12, MCAT on August 16) to study for the MCAT only and do some clinical volunteering.

or

Study for MCAT during the summer and take a physiology, beginner research course (6 hours total) and volunteer and then study for one month during December also and take the MCAT in January of my Junior year? Also I will be taking a Biochemistry I and Microbiology course during the fall.

I feel like if I find out that I made a good score on the MCAT, I won't major in BCMB and rather go with something easier to keep my gpa high. Most people in BCMB in my university say they hate it. But if it really helps during medical school or admissions I am willing to go through with it.

BTW I plan on using the 3 month plan posted by one of the users on Student Doctor Forums.

Btw you are 100% correct in terms of the weight the schools may give to the process now with the applicant pool dramatically increasing. The weight falls on the MCAT.

In the year I was admitted, the top two majors, per the dean from what he told me, were Biomedical Engineering and American History lol. That goes to show that GPA plays a role but its science GPA that is more weighted and the degree itself can be in about anything, though the MCAT needs to be taken seriously.

If you come from a state school you want to shoot for a 34+ if you want to go private. I think you are at UT if I remember correctly. Being a southerner myself I can offer the examples of Emory and Vanderbilt which will interview a 3.7 GPA candidate with a 32, but are more likely to admit a 33 or 34.

One other way for you might be to knock the test out this summer and and then go help out in an Afghan refugee camp for a few weeks. It will link you to your people, give you insight, allow you to see your ancestoral homeland potentially, and shape you into the type of candidate Vandebilt wants to meet.

Then, find a research project to devote some time to as a juniour and build upon it during the year and the summer before medical school.

[Ahmad Walid]

Btw you are 100% correct in terms of the weight the schools may give to the process now with the applicant pool dramatically increasing. The weight falls on the MCAT.

In the year I was admitted, the top two majors, per the dean from what he told me, were Biomedical Engineering and American History lol. That goes to show that GPA plays a role but its science GPA that is more weighted and the degree itself can be in about anything, though the MCAT needs to be taken seriously.

If you come from a state school you want to shoot for a 34+ if you want to go private. I think you are at UT if I remember correctly. Being a southerner myself I can offer the examples of Emory and Vanderbilt which will interview a 3.7 GPA candidate with a 32, but are more likely to admit a 33 or 34.

One other way for you might be to knock the test out this summer and and then go help out in an Afghan refugee camp for a few weeks. It will link you to your people, give you insight, allow you to see your ancestoral homeland potentially, and shape you into the type of candidate Vandebilt wants to meet.

Then, find a research project to devote some time to as a juniour and build upon it during the year and the summer before medical school.

Thanks for the advice Barakzai brother. I really appreciate it.

Yes, I will probably rent an apartment near the university and the hospital for this summer. Just in case I get stuck with concepts, lots of grad students/former professors here to help me and I well try to do at least 10 hours of clinical volunteering a week.

Here is the 3-month strategy that one of the Med. School students posted on student doctor network. It seems very detailed

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=623898

My GPA isn't that exciting at all. I will need to raise my science gpa to a 3.7 since that is weighted more I assume, so I will most likely major in BCMB or some easier science.

Working in Afghan refugee camp sounds great and I would assume it would put me on the top of the list after MCAT and GPA, but I can't afford the travel costs, even though I would enjoy it very much.

Research sounds great, but I don't think I will be able to do more than 1 summer worth (During the summer I apply for Med.School). A lot of people have told me that volunteering is a lot more important then research.

Anyways, if I manage to score somewhere in the 30-35 range in Practice MCAT exams, I am going to assume I am ready and will go ahead with it but if I score in the 25-30 range I guess I will leave it to January of my junior year. (You think this is a good idea?)

One more question: Some of the former Med.School students recommend the New Yorker, Wall street Journal, the Economist as preparation (just practicing speed reading) for the Verbal part? Have you come to this conclusion? I was able to easily read and understand the Economist back in 10th grade so I don't understand how this prepares you.
Thanks again!