Nato kills 6 Afghan policemen

[Shayesta]

Though this may sound cold, I do not want abominations born, so I think when a girl finds out she is pregnant with a pigs child, she has made the right decision to commit suicide and ask Allah(swt) for forgiveness.

Why don't Afghan men who have big talks start being a man by acts and not just words and kill the criminal/pig instead of wishing death for the victim? How can you even justify suicide while in Islam, the religion you follow oh-so blindly, is strongly against committing suicide under any circumstances!? A woman has suffered so she should be the one to pay as well!?

Since I am not Tajik, Hazara, or Uzbek, I can not speak for them, and do not know what they would do in that situation. I assume they would too commit suicide then do that.

No, majority of them have learnt to fight for justice because even if they get killed then they are however dead anyway! It's just us Pukhtoons taking pride in an oppressed female soul.

I don't want filthy blood with us, in our pool.

You are right, our own 'pure' blood is already so filthy that we need no more of it!

The only time where there was relative security and this didnt happen as often was during the taliban rule.

How are you so sure of this? During the Taliban regime there was no police you could complain/report to, no judge to demand justice in front, no source which can back up any claims of back then, nothing. So how can you be so sure it was at it's lowest peak back then?

This is the reason why the taliban have been gaining stregth not just in the south and east but also in the north.

Are you kidding me!? Northern Alliance and it's supporters literally slaughtered Taliban members and their supporters and as reason they gave oppression, rape against 'minorities' in North, force, etcetera! I am not saying they are telling 100% the truth, but their so-called power was forced upon the Northerns which caused another ethnic tension.

[Saeed Khan]

Man, better said than acted upon. Why don't you yourself come out and taste what you longe for i.e., martyrdom to earn 72+ hoors and ghilman in jannah.

Cateya Sher can also donate her son or daughter for the holiest cause of suicide bombing and earn herself a place in a corner of Jannah alongside ghilman.

It is ironic that you are instigating sentiments here.

Toramanay stade mashe,

Well I am not Brutus in Shakespear's play to play with the sentiments of PF members or instigating them nor do i have an evil plan to snatch the green gown and qaraqul from Admin Khan..lol.. Your blind hate sees no bound when it comes to religion, see everything under its prism, ultimately lead you to wrong conclusion.
I think you justify such acts and want me to keep my mouth shut or deprive me of my right of free speech after coming across such heinous acts. I think you also suggest that all those Americans, Westerns, Human rights activists and other that oppose war and such crimes need to turn suicide bombers or join Taliban. Btw one must not be so selfish that his/her speech or act for noble cause tend to gain something out in any form.
Your post surprised me. But i am equally suprised that why my neutral and innocent post shaken your atheistic beliefs, compelled you to ridicule the religion which is practiced by majority here. On the other hand your post testify the correlation between believing and power to discriminate in right and wrong. I am afraid your post may have put you in a league of those who are committing such crimes or support it.

[khushal]

How are you so sure of this? During the Taliban regime there was no police you could complain/report to, no judge to demand justice in front, no source which can back up any claims of back then, nothing. So how can you be so sure it was at it's lowest peak back then?


Are you kidding me!? Northern Alliance and it's supporters literally slaughtered Taliban members and their supporters and as reason they gave oppression, rape against 'minorities' in North, force, etcetera! I am not saying they are telling 100% the truth, but their so-called power was forced upon the Northerns which caused another ethnic tension.

[/QUOTE]

Shayista calm down,
The facts are that the taliban brought security to the country. In most of the country there was police, there was a vice and virtue squad, there was a court, the punishments usually were done in public. There was a jail. I had cousins that served jail time for having a short beard. You could walk down the streets of kabul having a milion dollars on you and no one dared touch you. In my village people were killing each other because of badi and badal, it was the Taliban that came and put a stop to it. People were addicted to the opiates and it was them that stopped all the people from growing poppies. You call that the low point
This was not the low point. The low point in afghanistan happened from 92 when the government collapsed to about 96 when the taliban took over and brought security. That was the time when there was no police, there were only militia roaming the streets and they were the ones doing the crime against the people.
Even today in most of afghanistan there is no police you could report to. even if there is, they are so corrupt, they dont really follow through with anything. The taliban have set up courts through out the country and they are the ones that resolve disputes and they punish the criminals, not the government in kabul. Do you beleive that the taliban have reemerged because of some black magic. no there is a rational reason why they have reemerged, they are getting support from the locals because the people want some sort of justice vs no justice.
YouTube - PBS - FRONTLINE "Behind Taliban Lines" Part 1 of 4

When you talk about the slaughtering of people, you have to know the history of what happened in the north. The taliban took control of the south, west and the east and the city of kabul with virtually no resistence or very little.
The two biigest resistence happened in panjshir and Mazar. In mazar there was many bloody battles on both sides. The surrender of the city was negotiated and a truce was reached, the taliban went into the city and 3000 taliban men were surounded and basically butchered. When the taliban took the city the second time, they in turn did the same to the uzbek, massacred many of the uzbek and hazara men.
The US invasion of 2001 happened, the uzbeks were going to get their turn again. When the northern taliban forces were trying to negotiate a surrender, they insisted they will surrender to the UN or Nato forces but they refused to surrender to the Uzbek forces because they knew exactly what was going to happen, that they will get tortured and then massacred.

[Shayesta]

The facts are that the taliban brought security to the country.

Entire country? If yes then why don't the Northerners agree?

In most of the country there was police, there was a vice and virtue squad, there was a court, the punishments usually were done in public.

Did that exist for the Taliban members themselves as well?

You could walk down the streets of kabul having a milion dollars on you and no one dared touch you.

That's funny because many rich people fled back to their villages, towns, etcetera with arrival of Taliban........

That was the time when there was no police, there were only militia roaming the streets and they were the ones doing the crime against the people.

And this is, once again, what Northerners claim Taliban were doing. Thus their overwhelming hatred towards Pukhtoons right after the fall of Taliban.

Even today in most of afghanistan there is no police you could report to. even if there is, they are so corrupt, they dont really follow through with anything.

Even if nothing is done with the reports, the reports are at least there. The cases are there.

there is a rational reason why they have reemerged, they are getting support from the locals because the people want some sort of justice vs no justice.

Justice against what exactly are they waiting for? Evil versus less evil? Because if Taliban brought security 'to the entire nation', the current regime brought infrastructure, education, reconstructions, etcetera to the country.

When you talk about the slaughtering of people, you have to know the history of what happened in the north.

As far as I know, in the North it all started when Pukhtoon army 'invaded' the North? Wasn't that how ethnic tension gradually started off? If you are trying to get at something else then please clarify.

The two biigest resistence happened in panjshir and Mazar. In mazar there was many bloody battles on both sides.

I am aware of that and also that Panjsher was the sole province which wasn't 'occupied' by Taliban, and that also because many Panjsheris suspected the Taliban of being Pakistanis.

The surrender of the city was negotiated and a truce was reached, the taliban went into the city and 3000 taliban men were surounded and basically butchered. When the taliban took the city the second time, they in turn did the same to the uzbek, massacred many of the uzbek and hazara men.

Links would be appreciated because as far as I know, this happened after the fall of Taliban?

[khushal]

[QUOTE]

Entire country? If yes then why don't the Northerners agree?

The northerners dont agree because of the ethnic hatred and killing that was going on. When ever a society is facing ethnic killing, you automatically are going to side with your own ethnic group. that is human nature to survive.

Did that exist for the Taliban members themselves as well?

I dont know, usually the ones in power are immune to prosecution

That's funny because many rich people fled back to their villages, towns, etcetera with arrival of Taliban........

No they did not, there was no oppertunity. Most of the rich people left after the government fell in 92 and thats when the ethnik killing actually began, it didnt begiin when the taliban invaded the north

And this is, once again, what Northerners claim Taliban were doing. Thus their overwhelming hatred towards Pukhtoons right after the fall of Taliban.

The hatred of the different ethnik groups began when masood, hekmatyar and dostom where competeing for power in kabul. You are reading too much into the western propaganda. That is not the truth. Read about what happened when the governemnt fell in 92, what happened after that.

Even if nothing is done with the reports, the reports are at least there. The cases are there.

Who cares if the case is there when the criminal is free

Justice against what exactly are they waiting for? Evil versus less evil? Because if Taliban brought security 'to the entire nation', the current regime brought infrastructure, education, reconstructions, etcetera to the country.

The current regime has brought nothing but looted the country once again, just like they did from 92-96, remember these are the same people. It is the americans that have brought the infrastructure and etc to the country. Most of that money which was intended for the rebuilding of the country has been stolen by the regime you speak of.

As far as I know, in the North it all started when Pukhtoon army 'invaded' the North? Wasn't that how ethnic tension gradually started off? If you are trying to get at something else then please clarify.

You are wrong, the ethnik tension started when the government fell in 92, like i stated before, It started with Hekmatyar, Dostom, and Masood as the main players competeing for power. Alot of Hazaras were killed during this time by Masood forces and Sayafs forces. I have to search for articles , I will try to find them for you, just give me some time

I am aware of that and also that Panjsher was the sole province which wasn't 'occupied' by Taliban, and that also because many Panjsheris suspected the Taliban of being Pakistanis.

They were all pakistani proxies at one time or another

Links would be appreciated because as far as I know, this happened after the fall of Taliban?

No, it happened after the fall of najibs government in 92. I will try to get you links. There were also reports that alot of arabs commited many atrocities in the north especially against the hazaras because of them being shias, that is the reason why the NA took no mercy on the arabs

I am no fan of the taliban, but the truth is the truth

[khushal]

Shayista,
i know some people dont like wikipedia but here is a discription of the battle for mazar in 97-98, this is pretty accurate from what I remember from hearing the news and reeading about it during the time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles...arif_1997-1998

[khushal]

This is the discription of the ethnik cleansing of pashtuns after 2001 in the north
http://www.hewad.com/news2.htm

Here is the human right watch report on afghansitan that details what happened after the fall of the najib government
http://www.hrw.org/en/node/11668/section/3

In 93 I was in parachinar and refugees of pashtuns, tajics and hazaras came and i talked to them and I couldnt beleive the atrocities they told me of what the militias were doing and I want to remind you these are the same people in power today in kabul

YouTube - malalai joya[/URL]

See what happens when she tells the truth to the criminals, they attack her, you think these criminals have brought hope to the country, they are the very reason that misery exists in afghanistan now and in the past 3 decades

[Shayesta]

The northerners dont agree because of the ethnic hatred and killing that was going on. When ever a society is facing ethnic killing, you automatically are going to side with your own ethnic group. that is human nature to survive.

So you are actually admitting that ethnic killings did take place during Taliban regime?

No they did not, there was no oppertunity. Most of the rich people left after the government fell in 92 and thats when the ethnik killing actually began, it didnt begiin when the taliban invaded the north

Yes there was, my own relatives in huge numbers fled to Laghman right after Taliban's arrival in Kabul and same-wise huge number of (rich) Panjsheris also fled to Panjsher.

The hatred of the different ethnik groups began when masood, hekmatyar and dostom where competeing for power in kabul.

Massoud had Pukhtoons in his group, Dostum had Tajiks in his groups, and so did Hekmatyar. The fight between the Mujahideen wasn't for ethnic power, it was more about individual power.

Who cares if the case is there when the criminal is free

That's not what we were discussing, we were discussing about the number of cases. And today it's the warlords who are committing crimes but are immune to punishments, same-wise were the Taliban during their era.

The current regime has brought nothing but looted the country once again, just like they did from 92-96,

And what did Taliban bring to let it loot in first place? Absolutely nothing! At least now we are progressing per education, per infrastructural, per international investments, per progress towards technology, and you name it. And moreover, after a very long time no ethnic is being massacred since last three decades, for a change!

remember these are the same people.

I know, and I also know that they by far aren't bringing the same destructions again. I am aware about the stories how Mujahideen hizbs were destroying each other in the name of power, but the reason I can name for a much better handling by them is that the hizbs are gone. Now they are all under the same rule; Northern Alliance.

It is the americans that have brought the infrastructure and etc to the country. Most of that money which was intended for the rebuilding of the country has been stolen by the regime you speak of.

Do you even know that Americans equally loot the very same money? And money is even looted by individuals like engineers, doctors, architects and etcetera who receive the money to rebuild their nation, indeed, but it ends up in their own individual pockets. It's not that no pennies gets to the individuals, it's the individuals who snatch very little that is left by foreign workers and the politicians.

You are wrong, the ethnik tension started when the government fell in 92, like i stated before, It started with Hekmatyar, Dostom, and Masood as the main players competeing for power. Alot of Hazaras were killed during this time by Masood forces and Sayafs forces.

And once again, they were individuals hungry for power, none of them gave a damn about their ethnics. Maybe except for Massoud who defended Panjsher first and foremost. And same attitude towards Hazaras was put on by Taliban as well by the way, regarding the Hazaras themselves.

i know some people dont like wikipedia but here is a discription of the battle for mazar in 97-98, this is pretty accurate from what I remember from hearing the news and reeading about it during the time

I thought you were gonna give me links of fights between ethnics before Taliban rule? And moreover, the Taliban interference with Hazaras wasn't just limited to Mazar, it also involved Ghazni in Jagouri district. In fact, in Laghman there were no Hazaras but yet tensions were created between Pukhtoons and non-Pukhtoons; Indeed during Taliban regime. In Mazar it weren't just the Hazaras who were attacked by Taliban, have you ever wondered by Uzbeks hated the Taliban much more than Hazaras ever could?

In 93 I was in parachinar and refugees of pashtuns, tajics and hazaras came and i talked to them and I couldnt beleive the atrocities they told me of what the militias were doing and I want to remind you these are the same people in power today in kabul

And once again, those very same people haven't got the same policy as before any more as this time they are united through Northern Alliance and those hizbs they were fighting under, has vanished.

See what happens when she tells the truth to the criminals, they attack her, you think these criminals have brought hope to the country, they are the very reason that misery exists in afghanistan now and in the past 3 decades

And yet people keep ousting their opinion regarding the government while all the government can do is exchange words with them. Now they at least have a chance of speaking out while during Taliban regime you didn't get that opportunity. Don't forget that if Taliban was still in power she wouldn't be where she is today.