Erdogan says New Zealand attack shows growing hostility to Islam

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I said Western military intervention. Europe has been following US into wars for decades. NATO is in Afghanistan or are you not aware of that?

France and Britain joined US for the anti-ISIS campaign which is still going on in Syria or are you unaware?

Okay so France and Britain , don't say "Europe" say France and Britain.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Why is France in Chad?

Residual what? Break it down by numbers LOL

Muslim world, Middle East, Greater Middle East, Central Asia.

Are you really this anaaal?

Chad is not the Middle East though.....which was your original point.


Yes break it down by numbers the # of troops from each country.

[khushal]

Obviously, but Insight is saying Europe is somehow culpable for U.S. escapades. Firstly, not all European countries participated in these escapades. In fact most did not, most of the ones that did, did so grudgingly as a NATO obligation. Hence their troop presence was minimal.

Also, whiich right wing groups for big supporters of intervention? Most European right wing groups seem isolationist, at least after WWII. Care to enlighten me.

Secondly, also as a thought experiment, let's assume right wing groups IN EUROPE did support interventionalism, unless support means they actively petitioning and making mobilization plans, they still wouldn't be culpable.

If you guys are simply lumping Europe and America together, then that's simply sloppy reasoning. Europe has many nation states, the European Union is primarily economic, seldom geopolitical outside of Europe ...so yeah I hope you're not trying to suggest that Europe collectively has harbor for U.S. policies.

They WERE pro war, just look it up. They have changed their stance since they now realize the err in their ways. Just look at Ann Coultre a huge supporter of war and now she realizes that war just brings in refugees. She has also changed to an isolationist. They have all changed.
These people lack vision even now. They actually believe that building the wall or leaving the EU(more border control) will solve their problem. Their problem lies with low birth rates, not Islam, or Mexicans.

[khushal]

Chad is not the Middle East though.....which was your original point.


Yes break it down by numbers the # of troops from each country.

There are many refugees coming from Africa through unstable and no real gov libya. Its not just ME people migrating.

[Insight]

Chad is not the Middle East though.....which was your original point.


Yes break it down by numbers the # of troops from each country.

Ok I adjust my statement. Middle East/Muslim world. You happy now?

Lol

No I will not get into circular bull**** time wasting arguments about numbers.

Why is US/NATO in Afghanistan ? Why is France in Chad?

Why is US in Iraq and Syria? Why did France , Britain, and Canada join US in Syria intervention?

Answer the questions and explain why their presence there does not matter

[Insight]

Okay so France and Britain , don't say "Europe" say France and Britain.

Do you knoe how many European countries are in NATO? Did you know nearly all of them participated in the war in Afghanistan?

Do you yourself a favor and google "NATO." Those are not African/Asian members

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

There are many refugees coming from Africa through unstable and no real gov libya. Its not just ME people migrating.

Still doesn't answer my question and not pertaining to what he said originally

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Do you knoe how many European countries are in NATO? Did you know nearly all of them participated in the war in Afghanistan?

Do you yourself a favor and google "NATO." Those are not African/Asian members

Then list them out and give us their troop numbers....dingleberry lol

[Insight]

Then list them out and give us their troop numbers....dingleberry lol

Lol because your whole argument just collapsed so now you introduce a new goal post LMAoooooo

Whether there is 1, 10, 20,000, or 100,000 why are the US/NATO/EU in the Muslim world/Middle East/Central Asia/Africa etc. (listing for the anaal retentive) ? ?

Do you believe these Western wars are not causing the migration crises?


Answer the questions

[Insight]

Still doesn't answer my question and not pertaining to what he said originally

This guy is drunk.

[Insight]

Muslim world, Middle East, Central Asia, horn of Africa, Central Africa....


This is how Iblis wants to have discussion when discussing Western military interventions which have happened around the whole world.

This is like those idiots who say I will see you next year on December 31st, and smile. They think they are so smart

[khushal]

Still doesn't answer my question and not pertaining to what he said originally

It doesnt matter, people are migrating from Chad and other African countries through Libya.
The point is that destablizing govs through interventions leads to migration not just from the unstable countries but also from other countries through those unstable countries. Turkey is not at fault here since many of those refugees are going to Turkey burdening Turkey thereby forcing Turkey to unleash them into Europe. The consequences are far reaching.
If you want to point fingers, it goes back to those right wing groups that supported those interventions.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

It doesnt matter, people are migrating from Chad and other African countries through Libya.
The point is that destablizing govs through interventions leads to migration not just from the unstable countries but also from other countries through those unstable countries. Turkey is not at fault here since many of those refugees are going to Turkey burdening Turkey thereby forcing Turkey to unleash them into Europe. The consequences are far reaching.
If you want to point fingers, it goes back to those right wing groups that supported those interventions.

From what I recall Chadians and other Africans were doing that already; perhaps the point that these were risidual events that emerged from past Colonialism has some weight ....but that this is somehow the consequence of NATO in Iraq or something is a huge stretch..

Furthermore people were migrating from Syria because of Assad, not interventions. ISIS rose in Iraq as a consequence of American intervention.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Most Euro countries aren't presently in the ME.

This is incorrect.

While other countries see their presence, its rather simple to find sourced break down of presence in Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan where some of the Euro "on foot" refugees are coming from.

Looking into Iraq and mercenary state presence - there are similar numbers.

CZECH

Since April 2007, a 35-man deployment of the Czech Military Police's Special Operations Group was deployed to Helmand Province to support British forces under ISAF command in a variety of force protection and Direct Action tasks. In 2011, The Czech deployment was increased with a full deployment of a Special Operations Task Group, including the 601st Special Forces Group under the newly formed ISAF SOF (Special Operations Forces) Command.[7]
Provided training and material support for allied Afghan forces (donation of Mi-17 and Mi-24 helicopters to ANA). Sent 3 times a Special Forces Detachment (601st Special Forces Group). Other activities in ISAF – field hospital, KAIA airfield command, PRT Logar, force protection for German PRT and Dutch PRT.

DENMARK

Since 2002 the number of ground forces committed by the Danish army has been steadily increased from 50 to 750 soldiers and support staff. These forces include a tank platoon with 3 Leopard 2 model 2A5DK tanks. The majority of the Danish forces are deployed in the Helmand Province operating in the Gerishk District as part of the ISAF force under UK command. The Danish forces have suffered substantial casualties including 43 deaths up till January, 2013. This is currently the highest level of casualties compared to the contribution size.
Additionally Danish Jægerkorpset special forces have been deployed at various times – including a substantial number in 2002.
In 2002, a tri-national detachment known as the European Participating Air Forces of 18 Danish, Netherlands and Norwegian F-16 ground attack/fighter aircraft deployed to Manas in Kyrgyzstan to support operations in Afghanistan. Denmark contributed 6 F-16 aircraft.
Lars Løkke Rasmussen, prime minister of Denmark (2009-2011), said his country's commitment depends on whether Afghanistan's 7 Nov. presidential runoff produces a credible leader (the run off was cancelled).

HUNGARY

Hungary deployed 360 troops to Afghanistan, provided training for allied forces, and opened its airbases for Allied use.

ITALY

Italy deployed Col Moschin and Gruppo Operativo Incursori (GOI) to Afghanistan, Italian Special Operations Forces were not under US-led OEF-A command, instead it operated directly in support of the Italian ISAF Task force-Nibbio, where they carried out local force protection and reconnaissance tasks.[7]
Italy had 2,850 men in Afghanistan.
Italian naval warships including its only Carrier Battle Group (with the aircraft carrier Giuseppe Garibaldi) supported combat operations in the North Arabian Sea. Italy deployed a 43-man engineer team to Bagram, Afghanistan to repair the runway in May 2002.

LITHUANIA

40 Special Forces AITVARAS troops, from November 2002 to 2004. After 2005 Lithuania has deployed up to 268 soldiers. Most of them were deployed in PRT Chaghcharan.
Lithuanian special forces were involved in Special Reconnaissance missions, since 2006 they have been in action in southern Afghanistan with British forces.[7]

NETHERLANDS

The Netherlands deployed 165 KCT operators backed up by 4 Dutch Chinooks in 2005 under the direct command of OEF-A. In 2006 under ISAF mandate, the KCT deployed to Tarinkot in Uruzgan Province to work alongside Australian forces, the KCT conducted long-range reconnaissance and specialist intelligence gathering for both the Dutch Battle Group and ISAF SOF command.[7]
The Netherlands help in 2006 included a build, fight and air support mission in Afghanistan with 2100 soldiers. In 2010 all Netherlands troops returned home and a few months later they began a police training mission with the Marechaussee and the Task Force. The Netherlands troops are members of the ISAF.

NORWAY

Norwegian SOF, commanded by ISAF, has been in Afghanistan since 2001.[7]
In 2002, a tri-national detachment known as the European Participating Air Forces of 18 Danish, Dutch and Norwegian F-16 ground attack fighters aircraft was deployed to Manas International Airport in Kyrgyzstan to support operations in Afghanistan. Norway contributed four to six F-16s. Also deployed from Norway were logistic teams, mine clearance teams, special forces groups (from HJK and MJK) and several C-130 transport aircraft.[18] Norway also has an army training base located in Afghanistan. Currently, they have lost one soldier in an RPG attack and one special forces lieutenant in a shoot-out with hostile gunmen.[19][20] Norway has also lost six soldiers in bomb attacks, including four KJKs in the same attack. Norway redeployed F-16 ground attack aircraft in 2006 as part of a joint Dutch-Norwegian unit supporting expanded NATO operations in Afghanistan.[21] Currently Norway has a little more than 500 soldiers stationed in Afghanistan, mainly in the North and in Kabul.

POLAND

A 40-man JW GROM element deployed to Afghanistan in early 2002, in 2007 both Grom and JW Komandosów were deployed to Kandahar (after earlier successful tours of Iraq operating alongside US Navy SEALs) under direct US Command. They weren't restricted by any national caveats-the only restriction placed on them was regarding cross-border operations into Pakistan. Along with Direct Action successes, they were considered very effective in training and mentoring Afghan National Police units.[7]
Poland has approximately 2,500 troops, mainly from Wojska Lądowe, and 10 helicopters stationed primarily in Ghazni province. There is also Wojska Specjalne compound: JW Grom (ISAF SOF TF-49), JW Komandosów (ISAF SOF TF-50) (Ghazni prov. Paktika prov.), JW Nil & HHD. Poland has also provided combat engineers and logistical support.

PORTUGAL

Portugal deployed 145 soldiers to Afghanistan, and provided a detachment of C-130 Hercules cargo planes. As a NATO member, Portugal supported the invocation of Article V.

ROMANIA

40 operators from the 1st Special Operations Battalion "Eagles" were deployed to Afghanistan in 2006 under the direct command of OEF-A, they transitioned to ISAF command the following year and were heavily involved in mentoring Afghan National Army units. The Romanian commitment eventually grew to a full Special Operations Task Group comprising three ODA (Operational Detachment Alphas)-sized elements. They often operating closely with US Army Special Forces ODAs on joint patrols and mixed ODAs of American and Romanian operators.[7]
1,843 Force consists of a battalion in Qalat, Zabul Province. Additionally, a special forces squad (39 personnel) operates from Tagab in Kapisa Province, and a training detachment of 47 personnel is in Kabul.

SWEDEN

Sweden has been in Afghanistan since 2002 and has 900 soldiers there (February 2012). These troops are however NOT part of OEF, but are under the lead of ISAF. Sweden leads the PRT Mazari Sharif

SWITZERLAND

In its first military deployment since 1815, Switzerland deployed 31 soldiers to Afghanistan in 2003, and two Swiss officers had worked with German troops. Swiss forces were withdrawn in February 2008.

GERMANY

In 2002, Germany had 2,560 personnel in the region. German Kommando Spezialkräfte (KSK) special forces were involved in combat operations. The German Navy has had three Frigates, one Fast Patrol Boat Group (five units) and four supply ships operating out of Djibouti, in the Gulf of Aden. A German Airbus A310 aircraft was on alert in Germany for use as a medevac platform. German forces have since supported the ISAF mission.
Although nominally under OEF command, the KSK worked under ISAF command since 2005, carrying out numerous operations in the vicinity of the German deployment in Kabul, including a successful raid on an al-Qaeda safehouse for suicide bombers in October 2006. GSG9 is also deployed to the Kabul area, providing specialist close protection to German officials and facilities. KSK operators have commented in the German media about the restrictions placed on them by their national caveats and stated that a preference for working directly for the Americans as part of OEF-A as they had done as part of Task Force K-Bar.[7]
The Bundestag is scheduled to vote on the mission in December 2009. It is claimed that other European nations will follow Germany's lead.[4]

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

They WERE pro war, just look it up. They have changed their stance since they now realize the err in their ways. Just look at Ann Coultre a huge supporter of war and now she realizes that war just brings in refugees. She has also changed to an isolationist. They have all changed.
These people lack vision even now. They actually believe that building the wall or leaving the EU(more border control) will solve their problem. Their problem lies with low birth rates, not Islam, or Mexicans.

Ann Coulter is American RW......not European RW..

Why do you and Insight keep bait and switching between European and American, stop with this sloppiness. be crystal clear on what and who you're talking about.