The Immorality of Child Abuse

[unknownprince]

chill out, kala kala masharaan ta khaa owaya, ul get banned again.

I cant get banned as I have not broken and WILL not break any forum rules

But, others who have commented here have in fact violated forum rules, posts which I have reported.

[ozymandias]

I cant get banned as I have not broken and WILL not break any forum rules

But, others who have commented here have in fact violated forum rules, posts which I have reported.

Admins can ban whomever they want, regardless of what rules they do, or don't break.

[unknownprince]

Refrain from derailing and trolling this thread

If you can not handle the discussion, then do not discuss

[ozymandias]

Refrain from derailing and trolling this thread

If you can not handle the discussion, then do not discuss

This thread *is* a troll, and many of the comments you claim are derailing it are on topic -- just ones you disagree with and cannot refute.

[IamDZJ]

Your dyslexia shows.
Sorry...
I don't read long and boring posts.

Pardon me for not being in the habit of articulating my arguments by mentioning people's underwear during a discussion where I stand to be on the side of those claiming to be the defenders of Islam.

[unknownprince]

this was the most important point he made in the article. I have highlighted/bolded parts to pay attention to.

“Morality is the custom of one’s country and the current feeling of one’s peers. Cannibalism is moral in a cannibalistic country.” (Samuel Butler)
Since these values are nothing more than reflections of the prevalent subjective preferences they obviously will shift and metamorphose to accommodate changing needs and attitudes. In my own lifetime I have witnessed radical societal swings in moral behavior and attitudes regarding marriage and sexuality, homosexuality, the killing of unborn children, euthanasia, and the use of illicit drugs.
One can reasonably predict that as the infatuation with skepticism and atheism grows among the influential “intellectual elite” of our society, so too will their readiness to embrace more radical changes in moral values. Religious believers expressing dismay and horror at the ominous moral storm clouds looming on the horizon are met with smug derision, hysterical counter-accusations, or utter indifference. There is nothing that atheistic societies are incapable of rationalizing and accepting – including the sexual molestation of children.
No doubt, this assertion will appear preposterous to some atheists, and will spark outrage. Yet the logical and philosophical consequences of atheists’ belief systems are inescapable. When asked by journalist William Crawley if he thought that pedophilia was “just wrong.” Professor Peter Singer of Princeton University – a world-famous philosopher of “ethics” – responded as follows:
I don’t have intrinsic moral taboos. My view is not that anything is just wrong…You’re trying to put words in my mouth.” (

[Manzareh]

Feel free to believe that. It is my understanding that all Muslim's respect Mohammad. I could be wrong, though.

Yes Muslims respect Mohammad, but he was no pedophile.

Read this in your own time:

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Okay, lets have a look at the psyche of a typical pedophile, and see how much of it fits Muhammad shall we? Quoted text is taken from Understanding the Pedophile Psyche, courtesy of the Police Federation of England & Wales:

http://www.polfed.org/magazine/08_20...paedophile.htm
"Low self esteem. Many pedophiles, although by no means all, do not have a great sense of capacity for adopting a sexual demeanor towards adults or those of their own age or older. They feel unhappy and fearful at the prospect of sexual behaviour with adults and hence turn to children due to the fact that they are unable to have the strength of personality to seek adults for sexual demeanor. When considering treatment therefore it is important to establish and develop a higher sense of self-esteem in such individuals."

As well as being married to Aisha, he was also married to many other women during his life. He wasn't certainly suffering from low self-esteem. Therefore, this does not apply to Muhammad.

"Lack of impulse control. Many pedophiles find it extremely difficult to deal with the impulsive nature which inclines them towards sexual behaviour to children. They simply cannot control their need for engaging children in sexual practices. They might be said to suffer from an obsessive-compulsive condition. Here again treatment would involve developing better impulse control and of course redirecting the sexual inclinations."

As has been mentioned before, Muhammad waited for at least two years before consummating the marriage. Therefore, this point of 'lack of self control' does not apply to Muhammad. Also, fasting during Ramadan requires abstention from sexual relations. Why would Muhammad practise this if he had no self-control?

"Denial. Many pedophiles deny there is anything wrong with having sexual relations with children and many will in due course paradoxically deny having carried out such practices should they be confronted. It is vital to change the attitudes of such individuals much as in the lack of empathy with their victim."

Muhammad never once denied having sex with his wife. Also note the use of the term 'victim'. Aisha could not be described as a victim. Therefore, this does not apply to Muhammad.

"History of previous pedophile activity. Many pedophiles have carried out minor or major acts of pedophile behaviour in the past and this has led to habit as well as the obsessive-compulsive nature of the act towards children. It is vital here to promote alternative habits i.e. in attitudes and demeanor of sexual behaviour with adults."

Muhammad has no history of pedophile activity whatsoever. Also, as I pointed out, all of Muhammad's other wives were adult, and there is no evidence of him being obsessed with children. Therefore, this doesn't apply to Muhammad.

"Poor family relationships - many pedophiles have come from families that are in chaos or are lacking in stability. This has led them to view sexual behaviour with children rather than adults as acceptable especially if this has been practised upon them by a member of the family in the past. Although it is difficult to reverse what has happened in the past through discussion or attitude changes it is vital that insight must be gained by the individual into how his/her pedophile activity originated and was developed through the family dynamics."

Although he was orphaned at a young age, Muhammad was always very close to all his family members, and advocated that whosoever cuts the bond of kith and kin, he/she would be denied paradise. Therefore, this does not apply to Muhammad.

"Low IQ - there are pedophiles who have low intelligence but by no means all are in this category. Where this is the case appropriate therapeutic efforts must be made to develop understanding of what they are doing wrong and what they must do to change."

Despite being illiterate, Muhammad had a reputation for being a very bright young boy, an excellent trader, and an extremely wise man. Therefore, this point does not apply to Muhammad.

"Loneliness, depression and relationship needs - this particular trait is associated with low self-esteem and lack of empathy with the victim. Many pedophiles are lonely individuals who live on their own and have found it difficult to establish relationships with adults, especially for sexual purposes. Some suffer from psychological problems and even psychotic illnesses. Here intensive treatment and monitoring is in order."

Muhammad wasn't suffering from depression when he married Aisha.
Also, low self-esteem, loneliness, and difficulty to establish relations could not be attributed to Muhammad.

"Having been themselves sexually abused - many pedophiles have themselves been sexually abused in the past by adults. They merely imitate what they experienced and continue their activity considering it as appropriate since it was done to them."

This certainly isn't true.
I have demonstrated that, despite the fact Muhammad married a nine-year old girl, he could NOT be considered a pedophile

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[unknownprince]

back to the topic of atheism and pedophilia and the points made clear by the author of this article.

I highlighted the post before Manzarehs.

Please discuss, and for those who can not discuss civilly, then refrain all together.

[al-arab]

I am disgusted by seeing some of the ignorant, untruthful and un-Islamic comments by the well-known atheitst here. I think there should be taken meassures against them out of respect for Islam.

What is wrong with UnknownPrince thread? I have not read it all and seen all videos but it is highly plausible that pedophilia is more common among atheists. It would be very logical because they believe in their own often perverted laws and desires.

[IamDZJ]

I would like to take this opportunity to express the immense amount of love and appreciation i have in my heart for tropicana orange juice with pulp. It's almost like heaven.

[Insaaf_انصاف]

They have to lock this thread

[Alchemist]

All rubbish!

OZzy...

The Atheist Professors of ETHICS at the University are arguing that pedophilia is not bad.

What is bad and what is wrong?

Let's have a discussion on ethics then?

God forbids Sodomy. This is why it is wrong.


But what is your problem with a man and a child having a sexual relationship?
What do you see negative about it?
Why won't you say why you believe paedophilia is wrong? What is your source of Morality?



And unknownprince...
for the record our holy prophet peace be upon him has not been insulted. Yes he married Aisha...and if they mention that so what?

Let them take pedophilia out of the DSM-IV (the bible of psychologists). The DSM V or VI or whatever edition it is at. The DSM is a joke anyway...I've heard even "Road Rage" is classified as a mental disease too..and "Caffeine Addiction"?

Regardless...
Dazohra...I am not defending Islam here. I am just stating the truth.
In your mind you are defending Islam because you want to censor all taboo discussions. I take it that you are trying to escape the realities of life in your novels and on this forums. "Child bride" marriages should be discussed because they are real in afghanistan? So what? Hue Heffner is what? 90 something years old? The whole of the western world loves him for what he has done for their culture. And how many women does he keep in his harem? Why is it acceptable in the west but questionable in the middle east? Aren't we all humans after all? Should your morals only apply in one niche of the whole world?

We need to study our own assumptions here. Instead of jumping on the bandwagon and recycling old arguments.

Let's have a debate on ethics...what are the ethics of atheists anyway?

[Manzareh]

^ that post reminded me of rocky when he runs up the stairs

[IamDZJ]

First of all I didn't know who Hue Hefner was prior to this so he most definitely did not have my respect to begin with. Secondly, the women he keeps around him are of legal age, not 13 year olds. They are adults who have chosen to be with him by their own choice and are not forced, married and sold off by their relatives or parents and expected to have children and carry the responsibilities that come along with being the spouse of a 60 year old afghan man. The women hue Hefner keeps around him are not expected to have the responsibility of looking after a household. I don't know why you are using him to justify child brides.. Besides , our morals and idea of excellence should exceed that of the types of Hue Hefner. We as afghans and muslims don't have to live up to the standards of those who don't speak our language, are not familiar or living according to our culture and do not follow our religion. There is nothing wrong with changing a negative aspect of a culture.

Also alchemist, I am not scimitarxedge. Don't act like a bitch around me by mocking my taste in literature because I don't have it in me to return you the favor by making nasty remarks about your restaurant or physical appearance. Well, I have it in me but I would rather not.

You know, for some odd reason I expected you and unknownprince as the type of individuals who would be more dedicted to reading about Islam, praying and stuff like that but seem to me like the two of you would rather spend your time either doing research on pornography or personalities like hue Hefner. How disappointing...

[JAMALUDEEN]

an atheist has babies raped for science! - YouTube

This guy is adored by most atheists - Arguments for Atheism - Famous Atheists
Alfred Kinsey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/sep/7/20040907-113843-7598r/?page=2

Kinsey was also shown to be an atheist who loathed religion and its constraints on sex. All sexual activity is natural, he said. The main reason that children are not sexually active and adults tend to be heterosexual is because of “cultural restraints” and “societal inhibitions,” he said in his 1948 report.