christianity...?

[Catya Sher]

faye
SHUT up ! You ruined a thread about a serious subject.
Take your hippie ideas to another online forum.
No one wants to read your trash.
Hope you will be banned soon Inshallah.

[Zirey]

A lot of thoughtful questions. And Faye is so witty! I'll start with shadowgovenor's questions and add a few of the others' questions at the end. Sorry if I repeat some of what evilbunny wrote. No plagiarism intended.

"So if according to scriptures it is one God than how come Jesus is also God?What makes him a God?Where exactly does he claim to be God?"
--The Holy Scriptures teach both that there is one God and that Jesus is that one God. The Lord Jesus is divine by nature. There are many places in the Scriptures where He declares or shows His divinity. For example, He says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End...who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Revelation 1:8).

"if he calls himself son then he is probably not equal to father?"
--Like begets like. The Father's nature and the Son's nature are equally divine, just as my son's nature is as equally human as my nature.

"Then who did Jesus Pray to?"
--The Lord Jesus prayed to His Father. The one God is not lonely and silent. He is a community of Persons within Himself who speak to one another. This is why communities as well as an individual people reflect the one God's image.

"Who were they?
where did they come from?
When Jesus was born,was he right away God or did he become that later?"
--This is a fine trio of questions. The visitors were wise men from a region east of Palestine. They found the child Jesus in Bethlehem by listening to the Hebrew prophet Micah. Centuries before the Messiah was born of the virgin Mary, Micah had prophesied that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah also prophesied that the Messiah existed long before His human birth, from 'the days of eternity'. So according to the prophet, the Messiah did not become God at His birth or later. Rather, Jesus the Messiah had always been God, since 'the days of eternity'.

"So are you saying that God went into a normal man and than he led that man to his death to make other people's sins disapear?"
--This may be one of the misconceptions that we need to clear up. God did not raise an otherwise ordinary man up to be God. Rather, out of love for the world, God Himself became a man and appeared in human flesh like ours.

"which sins?
When he sacrifices himself he dies right?"
--Yes, the Lord Jesus sacrificed Himself and died to take away the sin of the world. Because of this, my sins are forgiven and I have eternal life and peace with God.

"But than again it become mutiple gods.
How about the holy ghost?
where did that come from?
arent those three gods?"
--The Holy Spirit is divine just as the Father and the Son are. Once you understand that Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of God, then the doctrine of the Trinity will not be such a stumblingblock.

'after how many days did "jesus "came back" "from the dead"?'
--He died on a Friday and rose again on the following Sunday, just as He foretold.

"This is only a narrative; something rebutted by Bart Ehman and modern Biblical Scholarship"
--There are two kinds of modern Biblical scholarship. One is faithless scholarship and the other is faithful scholarship. Faithful scholarship supports the Biblical evidence. The Lord laughs at little men's attempts to destroy His Word. The Bible is an anvil that has worn out many hammers. No other book has been attacked so much. Why do so many try to refute the Bible? If it is a silly myth, why is there such hostility toward the Holy Scriptures? Perhaps deep down inside the Bible's enemies sense its power and are afraid.

"This concept itself would nullify the notion of trinity; since "God being omnipresent" means he is present everywhere in all things thus, there is not one central place or location God manifested in."
--God is omnipresent but He can manifest Himself anywhere and in any way He chooses. He is great and Almighty.

"If God dies,he is not a God.
He was yelling and crying on the cross and suffering and bleeding ?!
He ate and went to the Bathroom as all the other human ?!"
--Yes and no. The Lord Jesus died in His human nature but not in His immortal divine nature. His body was fully human and functioned like ours. There is nothing unworthy about how God designed the human body.

"Are we not all the children of God,does this not make us equal to Jesus (pbuh)"
-- There are three types of sonship found in the Holy Scriptures.
1. By virtue of our creation, all sons of Adam and daughters of Eve are God's offspring.
2. By virtue of their baptism, Christians are adopted children of God.
3. By virtue of His divine nature, Jesus is the 'only-begotten' Son of God. This is a unique kind of sonship. It is shared by no other being.

"Did anywhere it appears that Jesus (pbuh) told them to worship me ?"
Because Jesus is God, the privilige of worshiping God is the same as the privilege of worshiping Jesus. The Bible in fact says, referring to Jesus, "And let all the angels of God worship Him". So not only do believers worship Jesus, the holy angels also worship the Lord Jesus.
As for the 'PBUH', just the opposite is appropriate. He has no need of our prayers. According to both the Holy Scriptures and the experience of believers, Jesus Himself gives peace. This is an irrefutable, unmistakable proof that He is God.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

A lot of thoughtful questions. And Faye is so witty! I'll start with shadowgovenor's questions and add a few of the others' questions at the end. Sorry if I repeat some of what evilbunny wrote. No plagiarism intended.

"This is only a narrative; something rebutted by Bart Ehman and modern Biblical Scholarship"
--There are two kinds of modern Biblical scholarship. One is faithless scholarship and the other is faithful scholarship. Faithful scholarship supports the Biblical evidence. The Lord laughs at little men's attempts to destroy His Word. The Bible is an anvil that has worn out many hammers. No other book has been attacked so much. Why do so many try to refute the Bible? If it is a silly myth, why is there such hostility toward the Holy Scriptures? Perhaps deep down inside the Bible's enemies sense its power and are afraid.

hehe obviously; that's called Bias and Special Pleading. Biblical Scholarship is based on evidence. The evidence shows the Biblical narrative is well insufficient.

"This concept itself would nullify the notion of trinity; since "God being omnipresent" means he is present everywhere in all things thus, there is not one central place or location God manifested in."
--God is omnipresent but He can manifest Himself anywhere and in any way He chooses. He is great and Almighty.

But Omnipresent implies being manifest everywhere; thus the claim is nullified by the terms itself.

"If God dies,he is not a God.
He was yelling and crying on the cross and suffering and bleeding ?!
He ate and went to the Bathroom as all the other human ?!"
--Yes and no. The Lord Jesus died in His human nature but not in His immortal divine nature. His body was fully human and functioned like ours. There is nothing unworthy about how God designed the humain body.

This too becomes incoherent; because if we assume that God has an aspect of him subject to termination; this would nullify his attributes of Omnipotence, Omnipresence and which in turn makes the the alleged Human Nature of God, not God and thus cannot be claimed to be deity by definition.

It's just like the Nietzchean axiom "Can God make a rock that he can't carry"?" No because incapacity is the opposite of capacity and thus this question has no meaning. Same here; terminability means an absence of the divine properties of God and thus Jesus couldn't be God by the definitions of the terms.

[randolph85]

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” Mark 15:34, Matthew 27:46


the creator of everything asking himself a question out of abandonment to himself.

[faye]

faye
SHUT up ! You ruined a thread about a serious subject.
Take your hippie ideas to another online forum.
No one wants to read your trash.
Hope you will be banned soon Inshallah.

darling i thought you'd be busy, pulling ghundals strings.
good to see you letting your hair down a little. keep it up. you may finally liberate yourself from all that venomous, pent up, anger and hate.
what a dreadful way to grow old. festering in that mess. because of my love for you, i will stay.
it is my spiritual duty to assist you, in this purging.
LOVE

[randolph85]

--Yes and no. The Lord Jesus died in His human nature but not in His immortal divine nature. His body was fully human and functioned like ours. There is nothing unworthy about how God designed the human body.

you didn't fully address the quote that my quote of yours was supposedly addressing. why would the lord cry out to his father. its not so much the crying and screaming we are wondering about, since we are following your understanding of this theology that god was in the form of man thus felt like a man. its WHY god had to ask himself(or his father?) why he was foresaken because of simple human pain that he felt.

muslims, even fkin atheists, have been through worse torture than jesus supposedly went through, but haven't question the all mighty or reversed their beliefs. whereas jesus, knowing he is the son of god (or god? who the f knows) according to the bible, is acting like a baby and asking where daddy is? knowing that through him creation begins and ends in the universe and he is destined for heaven.

the bible makes jesus seem like an idiot. issa (pbuh) deserves more respect than that.

[faye]

surely though, we are all created from god.
individual atoms make up a human. whilst the atoms are a part of the human they are a human, no?
therefore, if we are a part of god, we are also god, no?

[mir mahsud]

darling i thought you'd be busy, pulling ghundals strings.
good to see you letting your hair down a little. keep it up. you may finally liberate yourself from all that venomous, pent up, anger and hate.
what a dreadful way to grow old. festering in that mess. because of my love for you, i will stay.
it is my spiritual duty to assist you, in this purging.
LOVE

lol this made my night

[Zirey]

Dear Faye,
here's the thing, if we are parts of God, then God is no longer fully perfect, at least if I'm included in there. But what if we keep the Creator's nature distinct from that of His creatures? In that way we can have the best of everything. A perfect God who will bring us all to perfection. Sometimes sharp distinctions are necessary as you will see below.

quoted from RevelationThroughReason and Randolph85:
"But Omnipresent implies being manifest everywhere; thus the claim is nullified by the terms itself. This too becomes incoherent; because if we assume that God has an aspect of him subject to termination; this would nullify his attributes of Omnipotence, Omnipresence and which in turn makes the the alleged Human Nature of God, not God and thus cannot be claimed to be deity by definition. It's just like the Nietzchean axiom "Can God make a rock that he can't carry"?" No because incapacity is the opposite of capacity and thus this question has no meaning. Same here; terminability means an absence of the divine properties of God and thus Jesus couldn't be God by the definitions of the terms."
--Dear RevelationThroughReason and Randolph85,
if I'm not mistaken, you think that, according to the Christian faith, the Lord Jesus's humanity itself was divinized or made God. If that were so, then I could see the grounds for your objection. However, such is not the case. Christians distinguish Jesus's human and divine natures from each other. Jesus's divine nature is not subject to termination or limitation. He is fully God. Only his human nature was finite, fully man. Though united in one Person, our Lord's humanity and divinity remain distinct and retain their distinctive properties.

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” Mark 15:34, Matthew 27:46
you didn't fully address the quote that my quote of yours was supposedly addressing. why would the lord cry out to his father. its not so much the crying and screaming we are wondering about, since we are following your understanding of this theology that god was in the form of man thus felt like a man. its WHY god had to ask himself(or his father?) why he was foresaken because of simple human pain that he felt. "
--I think this question derived from the same misconception addressed above. As a suffering man, Jesus addressed His Father as anyone who is fully man might do. But your question is especially timely as Christians now observe Good Friday and Easter. By quoting Psalm 22 ( "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”) from the cross, the Lord Jesus points to Himself as the fulfillment of that Messianic Psalm, which prophesied around 1000 B.C. regarding His Crucifixion and Resurrection.

[faye]

that is the problem. humans expecting and blaming. god will make me perfect, the devil made me do it.
we were supposedly given free will and choices to do the work and create, ourselves.
i think that, at this point in time, i am as perfect as i am able to be. at another point in time i am as perfect as i am able to be, at that point in time.
if we are created by a god and from that god, then we are also god.
there is no finiteness, i believe. the physical form recyles at 'death' and the spirit continues, as it is belonging to the creator or part thereof.
i believe there is a reason for all things and all actions, even the most negative...i believe existence in this realm, it is a learning and creating process.

[Afghanistan2010]

Do you really believe in your bible ?

[faye]

who are you adressing?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Dear Faye,
here's the thing, if we are parts of God, then God is no longer fully perfect, at least if I'm included in there. But what if we keep the Creator's nature distinct from that of His creatures? In that way we can have the best of everything. A perfect God who will bring us all to perfection. Sometimes sharp distinctions are necessary as you will see below.

quoted from RevelationThroughReason and Randolph85:
"But Omnipresent implies being manifest everywhere; thus the claim is nullified by the terms itself. This too becomes incoherent; because if we assume that God has an aspect of him subject to termination; this would nullify his attributes of Omnipotence, Omnipresence and which in turn makes the the alleged Human Nature of God, not God and thus cannot be claimed to be deity by definition. It's just like the Nietzchean axiom "Can God make a rock that he can't carry"?" No because incapacity is the opposite of capacity and thus this question has no meaning. Same here; terminability means an absence of the divine properties of God and thus Jesus couldn't be God by the definitions of the terms."
--Dear RevelationThroughReason and Randolph85,
if I'm not mistaken, you think that, according to the Christian faith, the Lord Jesus's humanity itself was divinized or made God. If that were so, then I could see the grounds for your objection. However, such is not the case. Christians distinguish Jesus's human and divine natures from each other. Jesus's divine nature is not subject to termination or limitation. He is fully God. Only his human nature was finite, fully man. Though united in one Person, our Lord's humanity and divinity remain distinct and retain their distinctive properties.

No I am saying that Jesus' terminability proves there's an absence of divinity. It is just like the idea of a Tall short Man , you can't be Tall AND Short, you have to be Tall OR Short. He can't be Human AND God, he has to be Human OR God. Also the concept of being fully God and fully Human" or as you would put it "possessing divine and human natures" at the same time fails the litmus test too. By definition of something alleged as Divine would not have a human nature in the first place Since being Divine means the absence of human vulnerabilities; since Jesus had a human nature, he could not possess both simultaneously. Thus would not have been divine. By deduction.

I get your argument; but Christian Theology is heavily internally contradictory and the attempts made by generations afterwards fall short in reconcilling it. Coupled with the fact that there is no concrete evidence that the early followers of Jesus believed he was divine not speculative interpolation (i.e. claiming some of his followers prostrated to him) .

This is why Muslims reject Christianity; it is simply put, logically absurd in its foundations.

[faye]

but one can be a tall or short person..in comparison to a shorter or a taller person.
the divine is said to have created the human, it therefore possesses that which it has created. how can it be not connected when the divine energy and consciousness is supposed to be the lifeforce of creation.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

but one can be a tall or short person..in comparison to a shorter or a taller person.
the divine is said to have created the human, it therefore possesses that which it has created. how can it be not connected when the divine energy and consciousness is supposed to be the lifeforce of creation.

That's "taller" and "shorter" compared to something else; not within the person, There's no such comparable degree of divinity, A Being is God or it's not God.

Does it possess that which it created? does a clockmaker contain gears and and cogs? There maybe a "connection" this is different than having congruent properties.