Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

[ozymandias]

Hello,

My background:
I'm an agnostic atheist. I've never been religious, but I was educated as a Christian (Roman Catholic, actually), and I have always been interested in educating myself on what, and why, other people believe what they believe. I have been active in another forum for several years, and one of the posters requested I stop by here, and provide another view point. I posted for a long time, and then got busy in my non-internet related life and neglected to keep posting.

I am back, and am willing to resume discussions as best I am able, but want to lay a few ground rules, based on my experiences here, and other places -- these are important, because I am likely to be vastly outnumbered.

My rules:
1) I am *NOT* here to convert anyone, nor am I looking to be converted. Let's get that out in the open immediately. I am here to educate, and *be* educated, nothing more. Please don't insult anyone, including yourself by trying to be clever and pretending things like 'since you are here, you must be seeking'. This includes making the fallacious assumption that the only reason I do not believe, is because I am not educated. I assure you, as I learn more about religion, the more firm my beliefs become.

2) I will be as respectful as I am able, and ask that you do the same. It is very likely that in many cases, cultural barriers will lead to unintentional insults. I ask forgiveness now, if I accidentally offend, and I will try and be forgiving in return. As long as we learn from it and move on, and don't deliberately repeat. Feel free to report me to a moderator, if you feel it is needed, and I defer to their judgment.

3) I am not here to attack Islam. Let me be perfectly clear on that. I am *NOT* attacking any religion, no matter how much I disagree with it. Please do not take my disagreement as an attack.

4) I reserve the right to ignore, or not respond to anyone, or anything. In the past, I saw the same questions repeatedly, and I simply do not have the time to reply every time it comes up.

5) I *WILL* ignore copy/paste walls of text. I am an intelligent modern human. If I wanted to read those copy/pastes, I would use google and find them on my own. Pasting things here is not helpful to the conversation, and makes the conversation very one sided -- you will be asking me to respond to 5 seconds of work on your part with potentially hours of effort typing out my replies. Feel free to link to things, but summarize, and use the link as a citation, in case I want to read more, in detail.

6) I *WILL* ignore videos, for the reasons already cited, as well as the fact that videos easily eat up time just to watch. The same content can usually be read much faster than viewed in a video.

7) Please, use citations when making claims. It's OK to post your opinion, or repeat a fact you know, but upon request, be willing to provide a *scholarly* and *reputable* citation upon request, and I will do the same.

8) Finally, I do *not* speak Arabic, or Pashto. In this regard, I an an ignorant American. I know English, a smattering of Spanish, and a few random phrases in a few other languages. This has *serious* implications on this discussion. This means I *MUST* rely on translations of the Koran. I promise to make every effort to fully understand the context and the translation choices, in return, I ask that "translation errors" be used as an excuse or justification as little as possible. Feel free to help educate me on a better translation though -- that's part of why I am here.

I will occasionally attempt to use phrases from languages I do not understand. This is out of *RESPECT*, and an attempt to be friendly and broaden myself. If I misuse a phrase, and you are offended, that is your fault. Feel free to correct me, or report me to a moderator.

9) I am a huge proponent of human rights, particularly the freedom of speech. I can, and do reserve the right to say anything I want. Feel free to do the same. That said, I also plan on abiding by the forum rules, and will *NOT* argue with the administrators and moderators. This is their forum, and I am posting through their grace.

10) I will try to keep these rules updated to keep this discussion moving.

Ok, that ought to be enough to get us started and avoid most pitfalls I can foresee popping up, let's get to the fun part:

Ask me anything. It does not have to do with my nationality or lack of religion. I promise to answer to the best of my ability.

Pakhair Raghli and As-Salāmu `Alaykum,
Ozy

[Al Hanif]

Ask an American, agnostic and atheist man pretty much anything

How about no ?

[ozymandias]

How about no?

No one is forcing you to participate. I only seek to bridge the gap between our two worlds, so that we can talk like adults and understand each other a little more.

[ScimitarXEdge]

and apparently an H.P. Lovecraft fan .....you forgot to mention that

Ia' R'lyeh ...Ia' Cthulhu!!!

[ozymandias]

and apparently an H.P. Lovecraft fan .....you forgot to mention that

Ia' R'lyeh ...Ia' Cthulhu!!!

You, good sir, are 1 for 2. I will be *VERY* impressed if you can get the other reference without looking it up.

[Soldat_Amir]

I hope more rational minded people like you continue to flourish in this modern world of ours.

[Soldat_Amir]

my Question

Does segregation of men and women contribute to the current literacy state of women in the Muslim world?

[ScimitarXEdge]

I'm more about Cthulhu ....my favorite of the Great Old Ones....although Yog Sathoth is the Lurker at the Threshold, but he's an Outer God

[Al Hanif]

I am a huge proponent of human rights, particularly the freedom of speech. I can, and do reserve the right to say anything I want. Feel free to do the same.

Your country is the most hated country on this planet. You are the biggest criminals and the biggest evil on this planet. Your country was built on the genocide and ethnic cleansing of natives. This is the reason why you are the one and only country in this world unconditionnally supporting the one and only remaining colonialist state in 2011 I am talking about the terrorist state of Israel which shares the same history as your country except that It was not native amerindians but Palestinians. You slaughtered 82,162,000 natives. Your country waged war on Iraq and Afghanistan killing 500,000 children alone. You tortured innocents in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. You used depleted uranium weapons and White Phosphorus in Iraq. You used napalm and agent orange on Vietnamese civilians. You killed 500,000 Japanese civilians with nukes. You accuse Iran of being in the axis of evil when Iran did not attacked anybody for 300 years. The USA, however, during the last 30 years waged war on "El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Libya (2011), Yemen (2011)."


I piss on your flag and on all what it stands for. Your country is the cancer of this planet and Al Qaeda is the chemo.

[ozymandias]

my Question

Does segregation of men and women contribute to the current literacy state of women in the Muslim world?

I'll be honest: I don't know.

I suspect that it has a huge negative impact, based mainly on the negative stereotypes on how some Muslim countries treat their women, but I have no statistics to back this up. I do know that in specific countries, the segregation is a huge impediment to the education of women as a whole, but I also know that there are studies that show that the two genders have a vastly different learning style, and segregating young children often helps females learn by preventing the outspoken men from monopolizing all the instructors time. These studies -- as far as I am aware, however, were from Western countries, so may, or may not apply to a drastically different culture, and these studies were focused mainly on predominantly masculine subjects, such as math and science. I cannot state if they translate to reading. Finally, these studies also assume that each group of students had access to the same quality of instructor.

I am not knowledgeable enough about Muslim countries overall to definitively state that the majority of the Muslim world follows the lead of the countries that negatively segregate the genders (do so in order to repress one gender) or not, but I am lead to believe that is true. Typically Muslims that are interested in equality are liberal enough to end segregation, but this is not always true.

If you want, I am willing to research the topic more, and form a more informed opinion on the matter -- but I would much rather start with *your* answer to the question and work from there.

[ozymandias]

I'm more about Cthulhu ....my favorite of the Great Old Ones....although Yog Sathoth is the Lurker at the Threshold, but he's an Outer God

It takes a true scholar to know the difference.

[ozymandias]

Your country is the most hated country on this planet. You are the biggest criminals and the biggest evil on this planet. Your country was built on the genocide and ethnic cleansing of natives.

I think I might just blow your mind here: I agree -- mostly. The US has done some horrific, and unconscionable things in it's history.

That is part of why I am posting here. I am hoping to educate myself about those that hate my homeland, and help you understand that not everyone here unanimously supports the actions of this country. In fact, I can think of no one that does -- or even anyone I know personally that thinks the way this country was founded is acceptable.

This is the reason why you are the one and only country in this world unconditionnally supporting the one and only remaining colonialist state in 2011 I am talking about the terrorist state of Israel which shares the same history as your country except that It was not native amerindians but Palestinians. You slaughtered 82,162,000 natives. Your country waged war on Iraq and Afghanistan killing 500,000 children alone. You tortured innocents in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. You used depleted uranium weapons and White Phosphorus in Iraq. You used napalm and agent orange on Vietnamese civilians. You killed 500,000 Japanese civilians with nukes. You accuse Iran of being in the axis of evil when Iran did not attacked anybody for 300 years. The USA, however, during the last 30 years waged war on "El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Libya (2011), Yemen (2011)."

Your partial view of history is amazing. Most of these conflicts were results of treaties and obligations the US entered -- or were in a (potentially misguided) attempt to protect human rights.

Yes, the US has made mistakes, there is no denying that -- but to compare the political climate of the US to Iran is ignorant, myopic, and frankly so asinine that it cannot even be the foundation of a reasonable conversation. You are not just comparing apples and oranges, you are comparing apples and termites.

I piss on your flag and on all what it stands for.

And this is needlessly offensive, and deliberate.

Your country is the cancer of this planet and Al Qaeda is the chemo.

** IMAGE REDACTED AT MODERATOR REQUEST **

I do not think you have any desire to have a rational, or civil discussion. Your approach to this is the equivalent of my posting pictures of Mohammad's head on a dog or pigs body -- it is deliberately antagonistic and a dead-end to discussion. Please carry on -- the only thing your exercise of free speech has done is make you look bad.

[Soldat_Amir]

I'll be honest: I don't know.

I suspect that it has a huge negative impact, based mainly on the negative stereotypes on how some Muslim countries treat their women, but I have no statistics to back this up. I do know that in specific countries, the segregation is a huge impediment to the education of women as a whole, but I also know that there are studies that show that the two genders have a vastly different learning style, and segregating young children often helps females learn by preventing the outspoken men from monopolizing all the instructors time. These studies -- as far as I am aware, however, were from Western countries, so may, or may not apply to a drastically different culture, and these studies were focused mainly on predominantly masculine subjects, such as math and science. I cannot state if they translate to reading. Finally, these studies also assume that each group of students had access to the same quality of instructor.

I am not knowledgeable enough about Muslim countries overall to definitively state that the majority of the Muslim world follows the lead of the countries that negatively segregate the genders (do so in order to repress one gender) or not, but I am lead to believe that is true. Typically Muslims that are interested in equality are liberal enough to end segregation, but this is not always true.

If you want, I am willing to research the topic more, and form a more informed opinion on the matter -- but I would much rather start with *your* answer to the question and work from there.

For a successful nation to prosper and progress, the whole gender issue needs to be addressed in the sense that from childhood,the child is taught, both female and male are equal instead of placing conditions as we see in "Some" Islamic teachings i.e most females in hell are women, two female equals one male witness and women are to be seen only as suspect items of lust.

My point is, due to this segregation, I feel the current state of literacy,education and equality of the sexes in the Muslim is low, I feel for this to end, the Muslim world needs to accept that woman are not items of the whole "blame game" the whole "She is the future cause of man's miseries".

In the Muslim world, the literacy rate of women is very low compared to the "West" and a lot of people ignore this, they cover it up with the whole poverty/war issue, when its not, I feel religion plays a major role to the degrading of women in the Muslim world, if you look at Muslim women in the West, they have access to education and rights, better than their fellow sisters in the Muslim world, hence they seem to lead better lives without the restrictions of the Religion placed upon their kin in the Muslim world.

Basically, to sum it up, I feel segregation of the Sexes in context with "Some"islamic beliefs is counter productive for a future modern/progressive Islamic world.

[afgpower]

why, do you think, is the usa in afghanistan?

also why did you came to this forum out of all other forums where mulims are present.

jst curios

[tor_khan]

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