~ From Islam To Atheism Back To Islam Again

[Mayana]

Well, if it is about where we came from, then all religions also say we came from God. However, the fact of the matter is that why is one superior over the other when they say that they are from God. Also, you mentioned that different religions had different purposes. Why would it matter when they are all showing you the path to God?

The video simply is preaching that Islam is right, however, within Islam you have so many denominations that are at each others's throats. Again, it fails to show what is the "right path."

It matters because other religions are either altered by man or created by man and hence, logically are flawed whereas Islam isn't..

[Dust]

Religions be it Judiasm,Christianity or Islam are all the same and none holds supermacy over the other,since they were revealed in a sequel to special nations/regions on specific times,older religion got voided with the arrival of the new message and masses were commanded to let go of the former and follow the new one.
All advocate for the one ness of Allah and teach us how to be pious thus obedient to our creator.
Hinduism,Budhism etc are man made cults and are not accounted to be revealed/ordered by a divine authority.
God damn Hindus worship Rats and consider them to be their gods,i wonder how would Ashwarya Rai look feeding her house rat and prostrating to her begging for mercy (Atheists are worst than Hindus) thought to make it clear

What is the litmus test to declare one religion right over another? If I am not mistaken, Jews don't accept the Christians as being God and the Christians don't accept Islam as being from God. So, aren't you committing the same fallacy by declaring other religions not from God?

[Dust]

It matters because other religions are either altered by man or created by man and hence, logically are flawed whereas Islam isn't..

It seems that you well versed!

Would it be possible for you to demonstrate how Islam is not flawed and other religions are when it is hard enough as it stands to bring all of the Muslims under one consensus?

[Millatpal Noorzai]

What is the litmus test to declare one religion right over another? If I am not mistaken, Jews don't accept the Christians as being God and the Christians don't accept Islam as being from God. So, aren't you committing the same fallacy by declaring other religions not from God?

Each religion and prophet came carrying divine indications and miracles that led to the persuasion and confession of the mass's acceptance of the new religion,off course those remained non believers that were destined to be.

MOSA had his miracles
Essa was blessed with his miracles
Muhammad Pbuh's miracle was and is the Quran itself.

A man made religion will never spread fooling 1.6 billion ppl to fall for in mere 14 centuries,the prevalence,consistency and strong faith of its believers proves the divinity of Islam.

[Dust]

Each religion and prophet came carrying divine indications and miracles that led to the persuasion and confession of the mass's acceptance of the new religion,off course those remained non believers that were destined to be.

MOSA had his miracles
Essa was blessed with his miracles
Muhammad Pbuh's miracle was and is the Quran itself.

A man made religion will never spread fooling 1.6 billion ppl to fall for in mere 14 centuries,the prevalence,consistency and strong faith of its believers proves the divinity of Islam.

If population is the litmus test, then Hinduism and Buddhism equal to about a fifth to two fifths of the worlds population.

The factor that one has to evaluate is why is one religion right over another when in every religion the masses are fighting for supremacy within that particular religion--let alone fighting for supremacy over all religions in general--be it Hinduism with their cast system, or Buddhism with their East vs West interpretation, or Christianity with their interpretation of who Christians are answerable to, God or the Church. In Islam you have the exact same problem.

What gain is their for one religion to be superior over another and what gain is their for one particular sect, within a specific religion, to be superior over another sect.

All of this really makes it difficult to distinguish what is the "real path." Would you not say so?

[Mayana]

The Muslim community being flawed and Muslim individuals being hypocritical is one thing.
Here, we're studying Islam, not Muslims.

See, Dust (Are you male or female btw? Knowing that will make it easier for me to address you. ), the purpose of life in Islam is to worship God. Now let's define worship and look into the concept thereof. Worship in Islam is to pray, it is to give charity, it is to visit the mosque, it is to cover yourself, it is to be modest, it is to be good to your wife, your children, your parents, your neighbors, everyone; it is to take care of your body because it is seen as a trust that you have been given and not your property. Worship in Islam is the ritual washing, worship in Islam is a "struggle on God's way" (Jihad fi sabillillah); worship in Islam is self-control.. Basically worship in Islam is whatever man has been commanded to do.

Now what has man been commanded to do? Not a single thing is to harm us.
Pray so you may remember your Lord;
Wash yourself so you may be clean,
dress modestly and have self-respect,
treat people with respect so you may be respected;
don't drink alcohol so you don't die,
don't take drugs so you don't die,
don't commit adultery so you don't get pregnant or don't get STDs,
live life reasonably.


EVEN if there was no hereafter, Islam would be a sufficient lifestyle for mankind EVEN just for this world, even in this very instance - why? Because Islam is here to bring benefit to mankind and prevent harm. Bring benefit for example, by teaching us to give charity, by teaching us to be respectful etc; preventing harm for example by prohibiting alcohol and drug abuse, adultery etc.
BUT there is a hereafter. So by following Islam, we benefit twice, once in this world by living a decent life and once in the hereafter.


And let me shortly comment on the reasons as to why Islam means supplication to God and WHY we should worship ALLAH swt. God is absolute. He doesn't need our worship. He doesn't need our praises. He doesn't NEED us to worship him - that would make the creator dependent on the creation and that is paradox. We worship HIM and it benefits us. We worship him for our own good. Praying five times a day is so beneficial.. the other day I was stressing out over classes, I went and prayed 10 Raka, I was perfectly fine and peaceful.

Following Islamic teachings brings BENEFIT to us and prevent us from harm.

[Dust]

What you have mentioned is not only limited to Islam.

The question is that how can you be certain that the understanding of God you possess is the correct understanding? Secondly, within Islam (let us, to make our discussion more smoother, consider Islam correct) you have different interpretations of God.

Where do we clearly see the "right path" being drawn?

I think that great and deeper thought is required in order to solve what is meant, if anything, by "the right path is made distinct from the wrong one." Essentially, it is all subjective.

[Mayana]

I have pointed out the core of Islam (supplication to God) and how there is benefit for US and not for any institutions, any religious leaders, any popes, any political parties in it. There is absolutely nothing between me and God. No pastor, no Rabbi, no Pope. Nobody can benefit from my worship of Allah other than ME and ME only. Following Islam the proper way leading to a functioning society.

Other religions lack this. Other religions leave room for injustices (i.e. "I can commit this sin, Jesus will forgive me.") , for exploitation (i.e. Selling tickets to paradise in the middle ages by the catholic church). Islam has not left this space. We are held accountable for what we do, and what we do only; and religion is between the individual and god and not the individual and some institution and the institution and God.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

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[Dust]

I have pointed out the core of Islam (supplication to God) and how there is benefit for US and not for any institutions, any religious leaders, any popes, any political parties in it. There is absolutely nothing between me and God. No pastor, no Rabbi, no Pope. Nobody can benefit from my worship of Allah other than ME and ME only. Following Islam the proper way leading to a functioning society.

Other religions lack this. Other religions leave room for injustices (i.e. "I can commit this sin, Jesus will forgive me.") , for exploitation (i.e. Selling tickets to paradise in the middle ages by the catholic church). Islam has not left this space. We are held accountable for what we do, and what we do only; and religion is between the individual and god and not the individual and some institution and the institution and God.

I beg to differ. In Islam you must follow one form or another of what its founder, Muhammad, has said. Further, the religious leadership is HUGE in Islam. People don't interpret for themselves. They usually belong to a particular denomination.

[Mayana]

I didn't say that you need Islam to do that, Zalmayya. Dust asked why Islam is distinguished from other religions and I replied that its teachings are such and that they benefit us rather than someone else and pointed out that Allah swt is not in NEED of our worship - contrary to public belief.

The things you mentioned that you abstain from I abstain from too, not because I am afraid of punishment. No, because abstaining from them is reasonable. To me at least. Same goes for Islam. Fear did not get me to follow Islam. Reason did. Questioning did. Doubts did. Phases of being on the verge of agnosticism did. This is what makes most sense to me, I cannot bring myself to follow any other religion because I see flaws in them that I do not see in Islam.
I am merely pointing out that Islam is teaching us a reasonable lifestyle in order for US to live a safe and happy life.

Those who praise Him most will be closest to Him in their hearts; if you are close to God in your heart, you will automatically increase your Aqeeda. Those who are closest to God in their heart will hence abstain from sins and do more 'good deeds' and hence be granted Jannah.. makes sense? =/

[Mayana]

I beg to differ. In Islam you must follow one form or another of what its founder, Muhammad, has said. Further, the religious leadership is HUGE in Islam. People don't interpret for themselves. They usually belong to a particular denomination.

Yes, you belong to a denomination, You chose that denomination. I know MANY people who don't completely follow one particular denomination but have interpreted Islam for themselves by studying Qur'an and Sunnah and having chosen their interpretation.
This is not like Christianity where you have to go to your pastor and confess your sins, where there is an instance, an institution, between you and God. It's just you and God, no pastor needed, no institution required; you are held accountable for your deeds and your deeds only, nobody between you and God "forgiving" you.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

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[Mayana]

Please easyyyy on the discussion here. I've been up for 16 hours, at school for 11 hours. My brain is functioning even less then usual. lol

1. They have either been altered (e.g. Judaism, Christianity), don't make sense to me (polytheistic religions), are not just (Zoroastrianism [there's no concept of hell, human beings are taken to be smart enough to realize they commited mistakes and that's enough of a punishment =/ ] ), are man-made (scientology lol)
2. Because I do not see a single flaw in it, it his flawless; I can hold the miracle of the prophet sas in my hands right now - the Qur'an, and find answers to EVERY possible issue in the Qur'an and Sunnah.
3. 9821026212
4. That leads me back to my previous statement: Study Islam, not Muslims. The creation is flawed, the creator is flawless.

[Dust]

Yes, you belong to a denomination, You chose that denomination. I know MANY people who don't completely follow one particular denomination but have interpreted Islam for themselves by studying Qur'an and Sunnah and having chosen their interpretation.
This is not like Christianity where you have to go to your pastor and confess your sins, where there is an instance, an institution, between you and God. It's just you and God, no pastor needed, no institution required; you are held accountable for your deeds and your deeds only, nobody between you and God "forgiving" you.

Actually, I beg to differ again. It is only limited to a few denominations of Christianity where to "ask forgiveness for your sins" is essential.

Today, without the hadith of Muhammad, most Muslims don't interpret Islam. However, hadith are only valid based on the understanding of clergy. Therefore, it leaves Islam with a bigger problem. The likes of Catholicism where you must ask the forgiveness of the pastor.