The Number Of Ex Muslims In America Is Rising

[Admin Khan]

Also Akbar is right. Muslims in Europe are way more confident than in the USA. We can brag about our faith and nothing will happen to us but in the USA hostility toward Muslims is growing. Thats why so many of them go atheist and try portray themselves as freethinkers or liberal Muslims. Its like the SPanish Jewish that were once called "marranos" (pigs) that in order to prove that they were not Jewish anymore ate pork in front of their houses so Christians called them "pigs" because of that. Modern liberal Muslims are like that nowadays lol

You might be watching Fox News. What makes you think American Muslims aren’t confident? They lead universities, are world class scientists, doctors, and engineers, all while consistently building Masjids. New York alone has nearly 300 Masjids. Have you ever visited?

[UnknownUser]

I don't think that's true. Speaking from my own experiences, I openly pray in the public. If anything I get a lot of curious people asking me questions. Yes, I've had some of the "Go Back to your country" jargon happen from time to time. They're a minority

Most of the people you're talking about that are 'Atheists" and "liberal Muslims are Iranian or Desis. You rarely find apologetic Afghans, although Afghans here are a mess.

The reason it seems the way you describe is because the volume of Muslims in Europe is both proportionally larger and more concentrated. Here Muslims are very spread out and less concentrated.

But there's a lot of PC Liberal hoopla in favor of Muslims here; that doesn't seem as strong in Europe. In Europe the rising right is planning to wipe you guys out Auschwitz style. There's also a lot of Maajid Nawaz types where you are as well. I will give you one thing, I do walk on egg shells when it comes to commenting on LGBTQ. I won't say my real views regarding Homosexuality and Transgenderism ....though I don't endorse tormenting and attacking them and should be protected from that. I also feel they should NOT be socially and legally validated.


However, isn't that the same in Europe? If you went around saying gays should be killed or something you'd be put in prison. The pandering liberal Muslims you speak of are saying/doing those things because they want a pat on the back from Westerners. Many were taunted for being Muslim and want acceptance. That doesn't happen in Europe? I'm sure it does. The Maryam Namazie's of the world are in Europe. Even Ayaan Hirsi Ali was based in the Netherlands originally.

A liberal muslim is an oxymoron though. Islam is pretty clear on most aspects of life. muslims who bend themselves into accepting aspects of modern Western culture that oppose principles of Islam as part of some ''reform/''modern'' Islam, can by definition no longer be Muslim.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

A liberal muslim is an oxymoron though. Islam is pretty clear on most aspects of life. muslims who bend themselves into accepting aspects of modern Western culture that oppose principles of Islam as part of some ''reform/''modern'' Islam, can by definition no longer be Muslim.

I don't think Liberal Muslim is an oxymoron but a redundancy. Islam is very lenient to people, but lenience doesn't mean absolving standards or accountability. It means context and motives matter as much as the action itself.

But trying to mold Islam around constantly shifting and unreliable cultural models is simply fool hearty. It'd be one thing if it was being done through a rational anthropological approach, but they're simply following trends, which are not motivated upon reason.

Islam is a complex and dynamic structure with many nuance and intricacies. Most of the critique against Islam is founded on lacking awareness that those intricacies exist.

[Sarbani]

The only issue with ex-Muslims is that they buy into Western degenerate ideology like the sodomite ("LGBT") agenda and abandon their conservative principles because they associate it with Islam and think that leaving conservative moral values is a part of leaving Islam. But staying Muslim means that they do a lot of other backwards stuff like enforcing the burqa, distinguishing themselves from the non-Muslims of the area (which can lead to violence), etc. If Muslims could become ex-Muslims without jumping to one extreme, then it would be good. Also, sometimes ex-Muslims return to Islam/Muslims strengthen their faith because Western (white) monkeys racialize Muslim people and cause them to have a greater identification with their religious group ('siege mentality').

[Sarbani]

Also Akbar is right. Muslims in Europe are way more confident than in the USA. We can brag about our faith and nothing will happen to us but in the USA hostility toward Muslims is growing. Thats why so many of them go atheist and try portray themselves as freethinkers or liberal Muslims. Its like the SPanish Jewish that were once called "marranos" (pigs) that in order to prove that they were not Jewish anymore ate pork in front of their houses so Christians called them "pigs" because of that. Modern liberal Muslims are like that nowadays lol

Muslims in the US don't face nearly as much hostility as they do in Europe. American Muslims come from a higher economic background and are much more likely to become successful compared to European Muslims. American Muslims sometimes get hate cause of terrorists in the Middle East, but European Muslims (specifically those form Western Europe) get hate for committing crimes in Europe.

[Akbar]

You might be watching Fox News. What makes you think American Muslims aren’t confident? They lead universities, are world class scientists, doctors, and engineers, all while consistently building Masjids. New York alone has nearly 300 Masjids. Have you ever visited?

Salam admin
I personally am sometimes watching fox news but mostly CNN lately.

I see your point is that Muslims are productive members of the American fabric. My point is about having actual influence on the society and having the confidence to observe sunnah while for example being a doctor.

But are most of those scientists doctors engineers practicing Muslims. I'm not talking about liberals with Muslim names.

[Akbar]

Muslims in the US don't face nearly as much hostility as they do in Europe. American Muslims come from a higher economic background and are much more likely to become successful compared to European Muslims. American Muslims sometimes get hate cause of terrorists in the Middle East, but European Muslims (specifically those form Western Europe) get hate for committing crimes in Europe.

Because Muslims in the US aren't as visible.
Please name me am American Muslim who has exceptional higher economic background. Even though that and being successful is not the point here. Who are you pointing to French Montana or Do Khalid? They are successful I guess.

In Europe Muslims differe from country to country.
I gave example of UK . Yes in UK there are some crimes committed by people from the Muslim background but more like a South Asian Muslim background. At the same time that word be a small percentage of South Asian Muslims.
The crimes range from heroine distribution to grooming gangs.

[Akbar]

The only issue with ex-Muslims is that they buy into Western degenerate ideology like the sodomite ("LGBT") agenda and abandon their conservative principles because they associate it with Islam and think that leaving conservative moral values is a part of leaving Islam. But staying Muslim means that they do a lot of other backwards stuff like enforcing the burqa, distinguishing themselves from the non-Muslims of the area (which can lead to violence), etc. If Muslims could become ex-Muslims without jumping to one extreme, then it would be good. Also, sometimes ex-Muslims return to Islam/Muslims strengthen their faith because Western (white) monkeys racialize Muslim people and cause them to have a greater identification with their religious group ('siege mentality').

You actually proved my point.
As Muslims we have the right to be identifiable as Muslims,

For example if you wear a headscarf you are clearly identified as Muslim. Why should that lead to violence? It's a normal sight.
I think it is very closed minded to think that Muslims should dress like non Muslims to be acceptable.

[Akbar]

Also Akbar is right. Muslims in Europe are way more confident than in the USA. We can brag about our faith and nothing will happen to us but in the USA hostility toward Muslims is growing. Thats why so many of them go atheist and try portray themselves as freethinkers or liberal Muslims. Its like the SPanish Jewish that were once called "marranos" (pigs) that in order to prove that they were not Jewish anymore ate pork in front of their houses so Christians called them "pigs" because of that. Modern liberal Muslims are like that nowadays lol

Non offence to anyone but I have noted that alot American Muslims actually celebrate thanksgiving and Halloween.

[Sarbani]

You actually proved my point.
As Muslims we have the right to be identifiable as Muslims,

For example if you wear a headscarf you are clearly identified as Muslim. Why should that lead to violence? It's a normal sight.
I think it is very closed minded to think that Muslims should dress like non Muslims to be acceptable.

It unneccessarily causes social separation. Social separation then leads to an us vs. them mentality. Leaving secularism hurts religious harmony. This doesn't only apply to Muslims. Look at the situation in Northern Ireland. Look at India. In North India, Muslims are more religious and less assimilated so this leads to more conflicts. In South India, they're more assimilated and secular. Compare Muslims living in Kazakhstan (who are mostly peaceful & secular) with those living in Egypt. Compare Aceh to the rest of Indonesia. Also, Saudi Arab funded Wahhabism causes many Muslims to start hating non-Muslims and turning to terrorism.

[Akbar]

It unneccessarily causes social separation. Social separation then leads to an us vs. them mentality. Leaving secularism hurts religious harmony. This doesn't only apply to Muslims. Look at the situation in Northern Ireland. Look at India. In North India, Muslims are more religious and less assimilated so this leads to more conflicts. In South India, they're more assimilated and secular. Compare Muslims living in Kazakhstan (who are mostly peaceful & secular) with those living in Egypt. Compare Aceh to the rest of Indonesia. Also, Saudi Arab funded Wahhabism causes many Muslims to start hating non-Muslims and turning to terrorism.

It being unnecessary is your opinion and I think it's not an educated one.
There are so many misconceptions in what your wrote.
You used the word assimilation and secular. In a secular society there is no main factor to assimilate with neither is assimilation required. There could be integration but the examples you mentioned are totally not sensible. You ask for the Indian Muslims to assimilate to what? Not eating meat so that people can feel at ease?

This has nothing to do with seperation or hating non Muslims. Islam doesn't teach that. It teaches to be living among people in harmony AS MUSLIMS with visible Muslim identity. I also think you are conforming to the extreme right or militant secularists. Society as general has no issue with freedom of religion or expression.

Egypt has a lot of issues such as the military coup on an elected president who is openly identifying as Muslim. So you shouldn't be complaining about Egypt.

About people
Egypt is much more in tune with Islam than Soviet satellite such as Kazakhstan.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Because Muslims in the US aren't as visible.
Please name me am American Muslim who has exceptional higher economic background. Even though that and being successful is not the point here. Who are you pointing to French Montana or Do Khalid? They are successful I guess.

In Europe Muslims differe from country to country.
I gave example of UK . Yes in UK there are some crimes committed by people from the Muslim background but more like a South Asian Muslim background. At the same time that word be a small percentage of South Asian Muslims.
The crimes range from heroine distribution to grooming gangs.

Now I'm going to preface this by saying that some of these on the list are a joke; but there are numerous Muslim academics and scientists in America

List of American Muslims - Wikipedia

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Non offence to anyone but I have noted that alot American Muslims actually celebrate thanksgiving and Halloween.

LOL No one "celebrates' Halloween. It;'s not even a holiday, it's just something people do as social amusement. Thanksgiving is a National holiday , which I don't celebrate .....but that's also more communal than anything.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

It unneccessarily causes social separation. Social separation then leads to an us vs. them mentality. Leaving secularism hurts religious harmony. This doesn't only apply to Muslims. Look at the situation in Northern Ireland. Look at India. In North India, Muslims are more religious and less assimilated so this leads to more conflicts. In South India, they're more assimilated and secular. Compare Muslims living in Kazakhstan (who are mostly peaceful & secular) with those living in Egypt. Compare Aceh to the rest of Indonesia. Also, Saudi Arab funded Wahhabism causes many Muslims to start hating non-Muslims and turning to terrorism.

i see where you're coming from, but your argument would apply equally to ethnicity and culture as well. Perhaps I'm misreading what you're saying here.

xeophobia isn't about religion only but being different or distinct from your host society. this is why I have a hard time fully accepting that making yourself religiously distinct leads to an 'us vs. them' type of hostility. Us vs. them hostility is happening in Pakistan despite religion. You can certainly argue that it's a step in that direction; but it's not a sequitur that it does. Hostility is galvanized when you have an narcissistic social construct. This hostility would exist regardless of whether you make yourself distinct. I recall when I was a kid that people would call me "Saddam's son" and stuff like that and this was before the whole spotlight on Islam really took center stage.

So I don't think that's entirely it. I do agree with you that Saudis, Iran and Pakistan try and fund and provoke tensions by creating and stirring bigotry but they're doing that with people even within a culture not just outside of a culture.

[Firdousi]

It unneccessarily causes social separation. Social separation then leads to an us vs. them mentality. Leaving secularism hurts religious harmony. This doesn't only apply to Muslims. Look at the situation in Northern Ireland. Look at India. In North India, Muslims are more religious and less assimilated so this leads to more conflicts. In South India, they're more assimilated and secular. Compare Muslims living in Kazakhstan (who are mostly peaceful & secular) with those living in Egypt. Compare Aceh to the rest of Indonesia. Also, Saudi Arab funded Wahhabism causes many Muslims to start hating non-Muslims and turning to terrorism.

Please, dont go down that road. In my entire life I have NEVER MET A WAHHABI. Not even Taliban are Wahhabi. This "Wahhabi" mumbo jumbo is just BS spread by Western media and by naive Westerners who think they are sophisticated and smart by using foreign words but Wahhabism in the IW is meaningless.

Also we need to be careful with this Saudi blaming. KSA backed Islamist forces around Iran in order to keep that country under control. But in other places their support for Islamic forces has been non-existent. In Lybia they are bombing Islamist forces. In Egypt they helped to topple Islamic Brotherhood and backed a secular nationalist. Same in Palestine where theys upport Al Fatah against Hamas.

Ethnic and religious hatred went up with secularization. A century ago when the Turkish Youth took over the Ottoman Caliphate that led to the rise of nationalism and secularism which brought upon us the Armenian genocide, the cultural genocide of Greeks, oppression of Kurds and Muslim Turks. Secularism is way more dangerous than religion.