Discussion between Khan and Momin

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Khan since our discussion is on Finality of Prophethood, I would like you to refute this book:

http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/Khatam_english.pdf

You might as well read the book for it has all of the information I would have posted myself anyway. At least this way you would get more insight into our beliefs from our own leadership.

Please take your time. I am not going anywhere.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Here is a video source:

Khatme Nabuwwat (Finality of Prophethood) and Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at

[amna.]

I look forward to our graan wror Khans and Momins response here.

[akbarkhan]

Khan since our discussion is on Finality of Prophethood, I would like you to refute this book:

Actually our discussion is here http://www.pashtunforums.com/religio...4/index13.html

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

It says Khan, not akbarkhan.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I look forward to our graan wror Khans and Momins response here.

This should be fruitful. Insha Allah.

[Khan]

Momin,

You are once again back at playing those old games. I asked you to give me a proof in the light of Holy Quran and authentic ahadith to prove your claim that Mirza ghulam was a prophet (Nawzubillah). But you brought up a book from your Ahmadis. When I asked you for a proof I meant show me the name of Mirza Ghulam ahmad in Ahadith and and Holy Quran as a part of a proof that he's a prophet if you believe so?


Here's what you do and did in the past as well;

- You post the translation and Tafseer of Al-Fateha then further add the translation of Surah An Nisa Verse 69 (4:69) which says "And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they." According to you anyone who follows the path of Allah (SWT) and his Prophet (PBUH) will achieve the following spiritual ranks.

1. Prophethood
2. Truthfulness
3. Martyrdom
4. Righteousness

I agree that an individual following the path of Allah (SWT) and sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is a very Truthful, Righteous and can even acheive martyrdom if he is killed while he is in Imaan but I highly and completely disagree with him becoming a Prophet. When Allah (SWT) himself claims that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last of the prophets and there will be no other Prophet after him.

Then in another part this aya mubarak has been translated and explained out of context by your people.

وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الصِّدِّيقُونَ وَالشُّهَدَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ وَنُورُهُمْ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَكَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا أُوْلَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ

[57:19] Those who believe in Allah and His Messengers, they are the Truthful and the Witnesses in the sight of their Lord. They will have their full reward and their light. But those who disbelieve and reject Our Signs, these are the inmates of Hell.

It sounds repeated but anyways I am going to explain it again, the one on the path of Allah (SWT) and his messengers definitely leads an individual to the path of Truthfullness and finally heaven as their full reward apart from other things given to them.

Your Ahmadiya makes someone else out of this Aaya's Tafseer saying that the followers of the Prophet (PBUH) can rise to the rank of the Prophet also. Now what does that suppose to mean? Look at the Aaya and your Ahmadiya's tafseer..where does the Aaya say that any person following Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) can rise to the rank of the Prophet? Again another huge sin committed and produced out of their stomachs by making this claim. Have you ever known that translating Ahadith and Holy Quran's verses out of context is a Gunahe Kabira?? and can even lead to death too?


What I wrote above has been explained in that book of yours but in an indirect way and you have used the same tactic in other forums as well and failed badly.

We Muslims (both Ahl-e Al-Sunnah wa Al-Jama'ah and Ahl Tashaiu') believe that Prophethood was ended and there will be not be another Prophet after him this has been explained in several consecutive rawayats. Even if an individual spends all his life following Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) from the first day he recognizes his left and right hand upto the day he dies, he cannot achieve the rank of Prophethood.

- If Ahmadiya sect. really had a bit of sense they would simply drop the matter as soon as they read Surai Ahzab Ch.33 V.40 [وَلَـكِن رَّسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ عَلِيماً]

But as usual instead of delivering the true meaning of this Aya they have played with its meaning and tafseer for their own benefit, specially the word Khaatem. The aya above explains in simple words that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last of the prophets and no other Prophet will come after him from anywhere. It refutes your claim of someone from the mankind following the Prophet (PBUH) all his life can get the status of Prophethood. Furthermore the meaning of Khaatem has been explained very well by Dr. Zakir Nayak in this video.




The irony or should I say the weird thing about you guys is that you do agree that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last of the prophets but on the other hand contradict the same truth with a nonsense like one can get the rank of Prophethood if he follows Mohammad (PBUH) all his life. LOL





I can prove from Ahadith and Holy Quran that there will be no Prophet after Mohammad (PBUH). His name has been mentioned in several ahadith and Holy Quran's verses but what about your Mirza ghulam's?


Like this I have alot of other sources with the help some brothers who can prove you wrong again and again.


Wsalaam

[شمله ور خراساني]

Momin is trying to escape the slaughtering in the other discussion. LOL

The Qadiani is cornered. There is no escaping this.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Handsomepashtun, you already converted to Qadianism? LOL

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Khan, if you want we can only discuss this:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/113914-post7.html

However, end of the day we would still have to discuss other aspects of the verse 33:40.

Would you like to refute the book or would you like for me to only discuss 4:69, because this is what it seems like you want to do.

I don't have a problem. Discussing the book would have been much better, but I will do as you please.

Let me know so I can start.

[Khan]

Laili Khaza Wa Ka Sarai?!

I already refuted your book. You just have to show me your Mirza's name in Ahadith or Holy Quran's verses otherwise stop dancing around.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Hold on!

Where did you refute the book? Did you have an inspiration from satan a few moments ago?

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Momin,

You are once again back at playing those old games. I asked you to give me a proof in the light of Holy Quran and authentic ahadith to prove your claim that Mirza ghulam was a prophet (Nawzubillah). But you brought up a book from your Ahmadis. When I asked you for a proof I meant show me the name of Mirza Ghulam ahmad in Ahadith and and Holy Quran as a part of a proof that he's a prophet if you believe so?


Here's what you do and did in the past as well;

- You post the translation and Tafseer of Al-Fateha then further add the translation of Surah An Nisa Verse 69 (4:69) which says "And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they." According to you anyone who follows the path of Allah (SWT) and his Prophet (PBUH) will achieve the following spiritual ranks.

1. Prophethood
2. Truthfulness
3. Martyrdom
4. Righteousness

I agree that an individual following the path of Allah (SWT) and sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is a very Truthful, Righteous and can even acheive martyrdom if he is killed while he is in Imaan but I highly and completely disagree with him becoming a Prophet. When Allah (SWT) himself claims that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last of the prophets and there will be no other Prophet after him.

Then in another part this aya mubarak has been translated and explained out of context by your people.

وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الصِّدِّيقُونَ وَالشُّهَدَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ وَنُورُهُمْ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَكَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا أُوْلَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ

[57:19] Those who believe in Allah and His Messengers, they are the Truthful and the Witnesses in the sight of their Lord. They will have their full reward and their light. But those who disbelieve and reject Our Signs, these are the inmates of Hell.

It sounds repeated but anyways I am going to explain it again, the one on the path of Allah (SWT) and his messengers definitely leads an individual to the path of Truthfullness and finally heaven as their full reward apart from other things given to them.

Your Ahmadiya makes someone else out of this Aaya's Tafseer saying that the followers of the Prophet (PBUH) can rise to the rank of the Prophet also. Now what does that suppose to mean? Look at the Aaya and your Ahmadiya's tafseer..where does the Aaya say that any person following Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) can rise to the rank of the Prophet? Again another huge sin committed and produced out of their stomachs by making this claim. Have you ever known that translating Ahadith and Holy Quran's verses out of context is a Gunahe Kabira?? and can even lead to death too?


What I wrote above has been explained in that book of yours but in an indirect way and you have used the same tactic in other forums as well and failed badly.

We Muslims (both Ahl-e Al-Sunnah wa Al-Jama'ah and Ahl Tashaiu') believe that Prophethood was ended and there will be not be another Prophet after him this has been explained in several consecutive rawayats. Even if an individual spends all his life following Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) from the first day he recognizes his left and right hand upto the day he dies, he cannot achieve the rank of Prophethood.

- If Ahmadiya sect. really had a bit of sense they would simply drop the matter as soon as they read Surai Ahzab Ch.33 V.40 [وَلَـكِن رَّسُولَ اللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ عَلِيماً]

But as usual instead of delivering the true meaning of this Aya they have played with its meaning and tafseer for their own benefit, specially the word Khaatem. The aya above explains in simple words that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last of the prophets and no other Prophet will come after him from anywhere. It refutes your claim of someone from the mankind following the Prophet (PBUH) all his life can get the status of Prophethood. Furthermore the meaning of Khaatem has been explained very well by Dr. Zakir Nayak in this video.




The irony or should I say the weird thing about you guys is that you do agree that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last of the prophets but on the other hand contradict the same truth with a nonsense like one can get the rank of Prophethood if he follows Mohammad (PBUH) all his life. LOL





I can prove from Ahadith and Holy Quran that there will be no Prophet after Mohammad (PBUH). His name has been mentioned in several ahadith and Holy Quran's verses but what about your Mirza ghulam's?


Like this I have alot of other sources with the help some brothers who can prove you wrong again and again.


Wsalaam

Can we safely say that according to you there are contradictions in the Holy Quran?

[Khan]

Yes, There are no contradictions in Holy Quran. It's just the Ahmadiya taking the Quran's verses out of context and explaining them for their own benefit. Just like the above one; following Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) all one's life one can get a status of a prophet.



Anyways, my questions are still unanswered, regarding your Mirza Ghulam's name in Ahadith and Holy Quran's verses, answer them or shame on you!

[Khan]

The verse I am talking about is this one;

Surah An Nisa Verse 69 (4:69) which says "And whoso obeys Allah and this Messenger shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they."

Anyone obeying Allah (SWT) and his Messenger (PBUH) will be among those groups of people on whom Allah (SWT) has showered his blessings already for example Prophets, Truthful, Martyrs, and the Righteous.

But as per Ahmadiya claim, The individual will get the RANK of a Prophet.

Compare the verse with your Ahmadiya's claim and they sound like oranges and apples.