Rethinking Islamic Reform

[Azmal]

Shamlawar, you rarely ever contribute anything except takfir and accusations against people. Unless you're a qualified 'Alim and can show a degree from an accredited Islamic Jurisprudential school that is ratified from Shayukh from All 4 Sunni Madhha'ib. and then show daleel for your claims

Then I highly recommend you desist from doing that, or in the very least state that they're simply your opinions.

Growing a beard, calling people kafir does not make you a Sheikh.

Sadly what this guy says is what majority of Muslims in Islamic countries believes…off course we can blame it on war and colonization and what not but Muslims land is no longer place for reason and logic. These are people, who value simple-mindedness and fear, superstitions, a belief in Muslims exceptionalism that blinds them from the fact of their own mediocrity, and they outnumber sane Muslims or at least they are most vocal of Muslims. Not to get personal but let’s not forget the background of Shamlawar Khurasan, from his Khalqi father killing people for praying to him burning his lips on drugs and now declaration of Takfir against people like Hamza Yusuf. These people with their Takfir are playing god!

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't want to bring up Shamlawar's past. I'm glad he at least found deen, I don't agree with the school of thought he follows, but this moronic takfiri stuff needs to stop.

[Azmal]

I don't want to bring up Shamlawar's past. I'm glad he at least found deen, I don't agree with the school of thought he follows, but this moronic takfiri stuff needs to stop.

His background is important in order to understand him for we are product of our past...there was a report about western Muslims among ISIS---80% had criminal/gang background. In my opinion biggest intellectual and political crisis in the Islamic world is "no crisis"— the acceptance as true that their world is so full and flawless. Urinate in the street is normal, poverty, illiteracy, and sadly suicide bombing are not innate; but a temporary crisis and it comes in the face of the West middling. The idea that theirs and only theirs interpretation of Islam (which is far away from the real Islam) is perfect and those that don’t agree are misguided and deserve to be oppressed.

[Khostai]

Tariq Ramadan is known to be two faced in Europe, he probably is a kafir becuase for him Islam is just a tool to use people. So I think Shamlawar is right here.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Western Liberlaist Servant agreeing with Wahhabi ideologue about a Muslim that wants to help liberate Muslims from Imperial control. More evidence that in reality the extremists and Western Liberalists are actually allies with each other to undermine the Muslim world.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

His background is important in order to understand him for we are product of our past...there was a report about western Muslims among ISIS---80% had criminal/gang background. In my opinion biggest intellectual and political crisis in the Islamic world is "no crisis"— the acceptance as true that their world is so full and flawless. Urinate in the street is normal, poverty, illiteracy, and sadly suicide bombing are not innate; but a temporary crisis and it comes in the face of the West middling. The idea that theirs and only theirs interpretation of Islam (which is far away from the real Islam) is perfect and those that don’t agree are misguided and deserve to be oppressed.

Sure we are, but the way we use people's past is more like trying to smear their reputation or something. Which is frankly non-productive.

Actually, I'm not sure where you got your study, but ISIS has a significant number of Highly Educated people.

So I think it's a much more complex situation than simply a "bunch of criminals and thugs". Of course there are guys who are just hoodlums that go join ISIS, and in fact its possible for someone to be "highly educated" by academic standards and still a hoodlum, but most of the ISIS recruits never had a criminal past.

5 Important Facts About Young ISIS Recruits

Isis documents leak reveals profile of average militant as young, well-educated but with only 'basic' knowledge of Islamic law | Middle East | News | The Independent Smilies



So it's actually not a good predictor of radicalization.

What seems to be a more consistent predictor is the idea of perceived disenfranchisement.

[Khostai]

Western Liberlaist Servant agreeing with Wahhabi ideologue about a Muslim that wants to help liberate Muslims from Imperial control. More evidence that in reality the extremists and Western Liberalists are actually allies with each other to undermine the Muslim world.

well well, looks who is showing his true colors again, asks people for a discusion and also not to use bad language, so when forums users tell what they think, you come up with insults and baseless complot theories about undermining Islam, LOL. You are pathetic, you just wanted some people to kiss you ass an agree with ever sentence you post here.

Thats not going to happen, so grow up.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

so when forums users tell what they think, you come up with insults and baseless complot theories about undermining Islam, LOL.

'


I didn't ask you what you think of the people, I asked people to discuss the ideas contained in the video. which you did not. So not a complot at all, you have the same thinking of Wahhabis, you're against Islam, just as Wahhabis disregard Islamic tradition. It's only a logical conclusion.

Keep your ghetto language, for when you go to the government office for welfare please.

[Khostai]

'


I didn't ask you what you think of the people, I asked people to discuss the ideas contained in the video. which you did not. So not a complot at all, you have the same thinking of Wahhabis, you're against Islam, just as Wahhabis disregard Islamic tradition. It's only a logical conclusion.

Keep your ghetto language, for when you go to the government office for welfare please.

How can we discuss when you post videos of people who are known to have hiden agenda en double morals? Do you really think people will just sit and listen and not ask why Tariq Ramadan is even there? He is known to be two faced liar, acting all pro-sharia and Islamic law with muslims and then claiming to be pro secularisation and leberalims in the company of non-muslims. And we all should just sit down and listen to him.

Dont forget to put some sun screen on your bald head when going outside, its summer if you did not notice.
Stay hydrated. Becuase you talk more and more chiberish.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

How can we discuss when you post videos of people who are known to have hiden agenda en double morals?

Basically Your argument is a "conplot" or conspiracy theory, which you just said you were against. Your only evidence is "here is "he's Known in Europe...." That's about as strong evidence as "There's a popular rumor". ....

In summary you don't have the intellectual capacity to have logical debate, you only know Ghetto language and what your Imperialist Masters indoctrinate you with , You're their House Slave (also known as House Negro) and just here to spread their Western Liberalist ideology. Your remark was to evasion tactic .....like your Wahhabi comrade.

When you have a argument against the ideas in the video .....then come back ....keep your Rap music rhetoric somewhere else.

[Khostai]

Basically Your argument is a "conplot" or conspiracy theory, which you just said you were against. Your only evidence is "here is "he's Known in Europe...." That's about as strong evidence as "There's a popular rumor". ....

In summary you don't have the intellectual capacity to have logical debate, you only know Ghetto language and what your Imperialist Masters indoctrinate you with , You're their House Slave (also known as House Negro) and just here to spread their Western Liberalist ideology. Your remark was to evasion tactic .....like your Wahhabi comrade.

When you have a argument against the ideas in the video .....then come back ....keep your Rap music rhetoric somewhere else.

You asking me to post evidence against Tariq Ramadan is laughble like rednecks asks to prove why Trump is racist and bigoted nutjob. Whats next are you going to ask to proof me if whater is wet? And if the sky is blue needs some evidence too?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

You asking me to post evidence against Tariq Ramadan is laughble like rednecks asks to prove why Trump is racist and bigoted nutjob. Whats next are you going to ask to proof me if whater is wet? And if the sky is blue needs some evidence too?

No I asked you to comment on the discussion in the video; which you avoided.

The part about your claims regarding Tariq Ramadan are clearly nonsense because instead of saying something like "He's known in Europe..." you'd have just showed evidence from some source. which you didn't.

[Azmal]

Sure we are, but the way we use people's past is more like trying to smear their reputation or something. Which is frankly non-productive.

Actually, I'm not sure where you got your study, but ISIS has a significant number of Highly Educated people.

So I think it's a much more complex situation than simply a "bunch of criminals and thugs". Of course there are guys who are just hoodlums that go join ISIS, and in fact its possible for someone to be "highly educated" by academic standards and still a hoodlum, but most of the ISIS recruits never had a criminal past.

5 Important Facts About Young ISIS Recruits

Isis documents leak reveals profile of average militant as young, well-educated but with only 'basic' knowledge of Islamic law | Middle East | News | The Independent Smilies



So it's actually not a good predictor of radicalization.

What seems to be a more consistent predictor is the idea of perceived disenfranchisement.

Not smearing, trying to understand him...the fact is Islam of a violent person will be violent and a peaceful person will be peaceful. Uod erat demonstrandum(To all of these) the only workable gov system is liberal democracy because it’s only in secular societies that people are respected as individuals first and foremost in the eyes of the law. Owing to the resilience of westerners civil maturity, I can read the Quran, go to the Mosque, criticize the leadership, enter university or seek ways to create wealth, while people in my name and my religion attack these people.
From your links above...

When asked about their previous occupation, the most-cited role was unskilled labourers, then trade and “student” in third place.

A 24-year-old from Gaziantep, Turkey was listed as having been a “drug and hashish dealer”. His form contained a note from an Islamic State official stating: “May God forgive him and us!

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Not smearing, trying to understand him...the fact is Islam of a violent person will be violent and a peaceful person will be peaceful.This is why

I believe in liberal democracy because it’s only in secular societies that people are respected as individuals first and foremost in the eyes of the law. Owing to the resilience of westerners civil maturity, I can read the Quran, go to the Mosque, criticize the leadership, enter university or seek ways to create wealth, while people in my name and my religion attack these people.



From your links above...

I already addressed this point about Thugs and criminals and the references also address that point; so let's not cherry pick things just to serve one's argument. I think it's possible that democracy can work for Muslims as long as it under Islam, coincides with Islam; not Western style secularism. Most of the things you tout are benefits of Western Liberal democracy can theoretically happen

Islam does not necessarily shun or repudiate a secular ruler, as long as that ruler upholds the principles and ethics of Islam and seeking advice from qualified Ulama when it comes to legislating civil and criminal law.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Western Liberlaist Servant agreeing with Wahhabi ideologue about a Muslim that wants to help liberate Muslims from Imperial control. More evidence that in reality the extremists and Western Liberalists are actually allies with each other to undermine the Muslim world.

Khostai knows about Tariq Ramadan because Ramadan use to be a professor in Rotterdam University where he used his position to speak in favor of liberalism and Western values in English and French while speaking like a radical Muslim Brotherhood preacher in Arabic at the local mosques.

He was exposed for his treachery and two faced tactics. The thing is, you and your bum chum Pakhpaloo may have developed feelings for the soft spoken Egyptian preacher. But to people in the Netherlands it is clear who Ramadan really is. Only Ikhwanis and other deviant people who have absolutely no morality still value Ramadan as a preacher.