Democracy is major shirk

[khushal]

LOL ....Shamlawar can you believe this guy? I swear he makes up everything on the spot.

Its not made up. I have sat in jirgas and I know that Wazir and Turis do the same as Zazis. Lineage has nothing to do with it. Its pure Merit.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

show detailed evidence of this; and by evidence I mean something that shows this is the process and not more you reaffirming your own claim.

[khushal]

hahaha, there is no book written about how zazi choose their masher. You live on the East coast, there are many zazis there, just go ask one of the older ones preferable one that have actually lived in the village vs just Kabul and they would affirm what I have said.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

so no evidence? I think we can safely put it in the "made up" bin.

[khushal]

whatever makes you happy. can you provide evidence of the contrary?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

your track record of being full of crap and having numerous members expose you on it?

[khushal]

its more that members have exposed you of being full of crap. trying to transfer your own label on others. classic RTR.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

"Bakht zamina doesn't mention anything about Pakistan"


Enough said.

[khushal]

you turning "zan poy ka" to "zah poy ka" which is grammatically wrong was classic. lol

enough said

[RevolutionThroughReason]

At least I could translate what you copied from someone else, you didn't understand what she was saying. LOL

[Khorosani]

Well , you cant blame democracy for the corruption of people just like you cant use Islam for the corruption of Muslims. Notice the If in you post, that's what makes a huge difference and explains how Shamlawar is wrong. A knife can be used for murder or saving lives in surgery. It depends on how you use it but democracy itself is neither Haram or Shirk.

I believe Shamalwar and I agree that if democracy is used for things that don't contradict the sharia than it isn't shirk, I don't believe you can democratically vote for an Islamic party and a non islamic party, if anything i believe you can only have an Islamic party where sharia is the constitution, you can't vote for the sharia to be changed even if all the seats in a parliament vote for it, and the only democracy that can happen is for people to chose there leaders, but for a leader to be able to run should be decided by the scholars, there shouldn't be anyone who would want to bring any sort of deviation on the issue of legislation, i don't believe creed should be a problem (such as if someone is a salafi or an ashari).

At the same time, are the people able to chose there leaders? It depends on the society, in some places using democracy in an society or a community to pick your leaders may lead to more harm than benefit, this is due to people being easy to manipulate and influence. The People don't understand the dynamics of how complex politics and the society work mostly because they are working on the ground while the politicians and leaders are more aware of the reality of how societies are affected and so forth. So is it necessary for the people to vote in lets say Afghanistan or Pakistan? I don't think so. We don't need democracy to help us pick our leaders but if a society wants to do so without contradicting the sharia even a little than that is there choice.

I believe issues can be solved through the islamic solution that Allah sanctioned and recommended for us which is shura. We need council of scholars and pious people who are skilled in the affairs of the akhira and with the book of Allah and at the same time are leaders and in tuned with the world and how it works. We don't need foreign methods of dealing with our affairs when Allah has given us shura.

On the topic of tolerance in an islamic dawlah, there should be no problem with hanafi, maliki, shafi or hanbali courts. The laws and hadds in some situations can change if one goes to one court over another for instance in a hanafi court the one who doesn't pray will be killed and buried with the Muslims while in the hanbali masjid he will be killed and not be buried with the Muslims because the Hanabila hold the opinion the one who leaves salah is a kafir and a murtad.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

[MENTION=16001]Khorosani[/MENTION]

Khushal and his likes are proponents of DIY Islam. They pick and choose and label stuff according to their whims and desires. There is no mujtahid scholar who makes such categoric statement regarding democracy.
[MENTION=4934]RevolutionThroughReason[/MENTION],

Do you know what Quran says about shura and the conditions for its participants?

[khushal]

I believe Shamalwar and I agree that if democracy is used for things that don't contradict the sharia than it isn't shirk, I don't believe you can democratically vote for an Islamic party and a non islamic party, if anything i believe you can only have an Islamic party where sharia is the constitution, you can't vote for the sharia to be changed even if all the seats in a parliament vote for it, and the only democracy that can happen is for people to chose there leaders, but for a leader to be able to run should be decided by the scholars, there shouldn't be anyone who would want to bring any sort of deviation on the issue of legislation, i don't believe creed should be a problem (such as if someone is a salafi or an ashari).

At the same time, are the people able to chose there leaders? It depends on the society, in some places using democracy in an society or a community to pick your leaders may lead to more harm than benefit, this is due to people being easy to manipulate and influence. The People don't understand the dynamics of how complex politics and the society work mostly because they are working on the ground while the politicians and leaders are more aware of the reality of how societies are affected and so forth. So is it necessary for the people to vote in lets say Afghanistan or Pakistan? I don't think so. We don't need democracy to help us pick our leaders but if a society wants to do so without contradicting the sharia even a little than that is there choice.

I believe issues can be solved through the islamic solution that Allah sanctioned and recommended for us which is shura. We need council of scholars and pious people who are skilled in the affairs of the akhira and with the book of Allah and at the same time are leaders and in tuned with the world and how it works. We don't need foreign methods of dealing with our affairs when Allah has given us shura.

On the topic of tolerance in an islamic dawlah, there should be no problem with hanafi, maliki, shafi or hanbali courts. The laws and hadds in some situations can change if one goes to one court over another for instance in a hanafi court the one who doesn't pray will be killed and buried with the Muslims while in the hanbali masjid he will be killed and not be buried with the Muslims because the Hanabila hold the opinion the one who leaves salah is a kafir and a murtad.

Your all over the place.
Tell me what a Shura is, how people in the Shura are chosen, and who chooses them?

[khushal]

@Khorosani

Khushal and his likes are proponents of DIY Islam. They pick and choose and label stuff according to their whims and desires. There is no mujtahid scholar who makes such categoric statement regarding democracy.
@RevolutionThroughReason,

Do you know what Quran says about shura and the conditions for its participants?

Most of those Scholars are employed by the house of Saud who preach against peoples wish to get rid of the monarchy because those people are a threat to the house of Saud. They manipulate, they are talking about direct democracy when in fact direct democracy does not even exist anywhere, it doesn't exist because it does not work.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Most of those Scholars are employed by the house of Saud who preach against peoples wish to get rid of the monarchy because those people are a threat to the house of Saud. They manipulate, they are talking about direct democracy when in fact direct democracy does not even exist anywhere, it doesn't exist because it does not work.

Yet they are scholars and you are not. So you must quote at least on mujtahid scholar who states that Shura is democracy.