Honor killing in name of islam ?

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Being fair and reasonable best defines it.

Fairness needs to be defined. Who decides what is fair and what not?

Reason is only relative.

So you havent defined justice yet. You have merely used two other obscure words.

Try again. I want to know what is justice?

[pllaybuoy]

Fairness needs to be defined. Who decides what is fair and what not?

Reason is only relative.

So you havent defined justice yet. You have merely used two other obscure words.

Try again. I want to know what is justice?

Snatching their rights of living their life the way they want to- fits into injustice.When you stone people to death for having physical relations, that is injustice since they reserve their right to do what they want with their lives and their bodies UNTIL AND UNLESS it interferes in somebody`s freedom .I ask you, what gives you the right to stone people or beat them with lashes for adultery ? what for ? Why do you ask me to define you justice ? Did you ever ask your parents why they shoved islamic beliefs down your throat ? If not , then why are you such a two-faced person ? Have you ever asked your god why he has so much problem with two fertile people having sexual intercourse ?

[Manzareh]

Snatching their rights of living their life the way they want to- fits into injustice.When you stone people to death for having physical relations, that is injustice since they reserve their right to do what they want with their lives and their bodies UNTIL AND UNLESS it interferes in somebody`s freedom .I ask you, what gives you the right to stone people or beat them with lashes for adultery ? what for ? Why do you ask me to define you justice ? Did you ever ask your parents why they shoved islamic beliefs down your throat ? If not , then why are you such a two-faced person ? Have you ever asked your god why he has so much problem with two fertile people having sexual intercourse ?

A misleading title, only a weak person has to lure people into a thread that speaks about something irrelevant to the subject, you must feel like an idiot when out of all the muslim members in the forum a non-muslim was the first to reply and say honour killings are not Islamic but cultural, that's how basic the reply is to your misleading title.

by the way, when it comes to stoning its nearly impossible to convict someone of adultery unless they themselves want to be stoned since there has to be a number of witnesses (4 to be exact) actually witness the two people committing the act, also many other near enough impossible factors, so unless your cheating on your wife in a public place I think adulterer's like you would get away easily .

you write "that is injustice since they reserve their right to do what they want with their lives and their bodies UNTIL AND UNLESS it interferes in somebody`s freedom" in that case why is it illegal to commit suicide? its your life and body and your not effecting anyone, why would I break the law in harming myself? why cant people walk around nude? why do I get fined for not wearing my own seatbelt? INFACT if its your life and your free to do what you want why the heck should you have to obey a law of the country that is made by other men that govern you on how to live your life???? you have no issue with obeying men's commands but have a problem in obeying Gods commands, either way unless your a loose canon that needs to be in a mental institution your obeying someone whether you like it or not.

[pllaybuoy]

A misleading title, only a weak person has to lure people into a thread that speaks about something irrelevant to the subject, you must feel like an idiot when out of all the muslim members in the forum a non-muslim was the first to reply and say honour killings are not Islamic but cultural, that's how basic the reply is to your misleading title.

by the way, when it comes to stoning its nearly impossible to convict someone of adultery unless they themselves want to be stoned since there has to be a number of witnesses (4 to be exact) actually witness the two people committing the act, also many other near enough impossible factors, so unless your cheating on your wife in a public place I think adulterer's like you would get away easily .

you write "that is injustice since they reserve their right to do what they want with their lives and their bodies UNTIL AND UNLESS it interferes in somebody`s freedom" in that case why is it illegal to commit suicide? its your life and body and your not effecting anyone, why would I break the law in harming myself? why cant people walk around nude? why do I get fined for not wearing my own seatbelt? INFACT if its your life and your free to do what you want why the heck should you have to obey a law of the country that is made by other men that govern you on how to live your life????

I need not to obey every law that has ever been made by people whose ideologies oppose mine.Fine, honor killing might be cultural, but beating people for adultery and stoning females is islamic .If you deny this then I must say that you are very uninformed and ironically still a muslim. And, yes suicide is illegal, not because it harms somebody else but the person him/her-self.We can't let people die just because they want to, we try to find the root cause of his problem and depression that led him to take this decision and then eliminate it or find an alternative. Again Why , I ask you.Not because we were told by allah ,krishna or christ but because we are humans and that's the basic meaning of being in a human 'society'-BEING SOCIAL.
Also there are nudist beach out there.But some feel harassed seeing males, with their junks hanging, walking around them,that is why walking around nude was made illegal(Once again there are places where it is LEGAL).You must be very low of intellect and intelligence to compare this with having sexual and physical relations with a partner, not like we want to shag somebody on the road ! And please illuminate me ,how is the title misleading from the thread itself ? The thing is, why the hell would you last unmarried people with lashes just because they want to have physical relations ? WHY WOULD YOU STONE FEMALES ?! How inhuman it is to beat a female with stone and make her bleed to death , even the idea of such a death give me the chills , how painful and what for ? I ask you ,what for ?!

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment." — Qur'an, Sura 24 (An-Nur), ayat 2

[Manzareh]

No its not beating people for adultery and stoning females, I must correct you, its killing people for adultery and stoning both sexes, if you read my post i never denied it but I gave you information that there has to be certain procedures in a court of law before the punishment take place, certain evidences are needed in order to implement these capital punishments which are almost impossible to obtain. In Islam and many other religions the act of adultery is classed on the same level of murder, if im a religious person that finds adultery just as bad as murder then who are you to tell me my emotions and thinking is not correct after all in your own words "its my life" i can choose what I find bad and what I choose to let slide, just because you find murder bad but adultery ok doesn't mean I have to follow your way of thinking do I? you choose to conform to the rule of man and agree with capital punishment for murder and a muslim chooses to conform to the rule of God and agree with capital punishment for adultery, as non believer you may wish to live your life according to the rules of your personal morals and the non religious society that your comfortable with, but what gives you the right to impose your chosen way of living on a society that has a total different set of rules and morals? Muslims are not ordering non-muslims to stone each other for acts of sin so why do non-muslims think they have the right to order muslims to obey their customs? live your life and let others live theirs the way they choose to, simple as that.

As for society and being social according to religious people and according to non religious people....well that's another topic.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Snatching their rights of living their life the way they want to- fits into injustice.When you stone people to death for having physical relations, that is injustice since they reserve their right to do what they want with their lives and their bodies UNTIL AND UNLESS it interferes in somebody`s freedom .I ask you, what gives you the right to stone people or beat them with lashes for adultery ? what for ? Why do you ask me to define you justice ? Did you ever ask your parents why they shoved islamic beliefs down your throat ? If not , then why are you such a two-faced person ? Have you ever asked your god why he has so much problem with two fertile people having sexual intercourse ?

Please dont get emotional. I just asked you something.

Suppose you get married to a person who promises to be truthful and faithful to you. Then yoi catch her having intercourse with another person. It appears your son is actually not yours but his son. So you have raised and fed somebody elses kid.


Now would you say that the lifestyle of your spouse is non of your business?

What i dont understand is why you get angry and hostile when people are just asking you to define justice.

You are shoving your secular Western values down our throat here by judging islam by your secular western definition of justice.

[pllaybuoy]

No its not beating people for adultery and stoning females, I must correct you, its killing people for adultery and stoning both sexes, if you read my post i never denied it but I gave you information that there has to be certain procedures in a court of law before the punishment take place, certain evidences are needed in order to implement these capital punishments which are almost impossible to obtain. In Islam and many other religions the act of adultery is classed on the same level of murder, if im a religious person that finds adultery just as bad as murder then who are you to tell me my emotions and thinking is not correct after all in your own words "its my life" i can choose what I find bad and what I choose to let slide, just because you find murder bad but adultery ok doesn't mean I have to follow your way of thinking do I? you choose to conform to the rule of man and agree with capital punishment for murder and a muslim chooses to conform to the rule of God and agree with capital punishment for adultery, as non believer you may wish to live your life according to the rules of your personal morals and the non religious society that your comfortable with, but what gives you the right to impose your chosen way of living on a society that has a total different set of rules and morals? Muslims are not ordering non-muslims to stone each other for acts of sin so why do non-muslims think they have the right to order muslims to obey their customs? live your life and let others live theirs the way they choose to, simple as that.

As for society and being social according to religious people and according to non religious people....well that's another topic.

Are you for real ? So to you killing somebody is equal as making love with your lover ?
Case closed .
I can not carry on the debate with brainless trolls, my apologies.

[pllaybuoy]

Please dont get emotional. I just asked you something.

Suppose you get married to a person who promises to be truthful and faithful to you. Then yoi catch her having intercourse with another person. It appears your son is actually not yours but his son. So you have raised and fed somebody elses kid.


Now would you say that the lifestyle of your spouse is non of your business?

What i dont understand is why you get angry and hostile when people are just asking you to define justice.

You are shoving your secular Western values down our throat here by judging islam by your secular western definition of justice.

All I meant is that having sexual intercourse with somebody you love is NOT wrong ! It is only in pakistanis, that virginity is a 'big' deal. If somebody wants to wait till marriage then LET HIM , on the other hand , if one wants to get laid then let him/her too ! Just do not snatch from them their very fundamental rights of living their lives .Why do ,we humans, have to be so nasty and mean ?Why punish somebody for physical relations ? You better have your children and others have their rights ! If your wife cheats on you then leave her , it is simple as that ! There is no need to beat somebody .Why are we still living in stone age ?

[Manzareh]

Are you for real ? So to you killing somebody is equal as making love with your lover ?
Case closed .
I can not carry on the debate with brainless trolls, my apologies.

In the eye's of God and the eyes of a God fearing person YES adultery is on the same level, i see your problem, you want religion to mold it self round your personal requirement of being a 'playboy' well its not going to happen, tough sh*t. Also if you open your eyes to the reality of the world countless people both religious and non-religious alike have murdered their partners for cheating on them and also have killed people that have had affairs with their spouse, this alone shows the magnitude and sensitivity of the act on a moral level.

Now to the rest of your post, you call adultery simply "making love with your lover" HAHAHA! and your the one calling others "brainless"..for starters get a dictionary and research the word before you start a debate you cannot finish. You've been defeated and have no answer. piece of cake

[pllaybuoy]

In the eye's of God and the eyes of a God fearing person YES adultery is on the same level, i see your problem, you want religion to mold it self round your personal requirement of being a 'playboy' well its not going to happen, tough sh*t. Also if you open your eyes to the reality of the world countless people both religious and non-religious alike have murdered their partners for cheating on them and also have killed people that have had affairs with their spouse, this alone shows the magnitude and sensitivity of the act on a moral level.

Now to the rest of your post, you call adultery simply "making love with your lover" HAHAHA! and your the one calling others "brainless"..for starters get a dictionary and research the word before you start a debate you cannot finish. You've been defeated and have no answer. piece of cake

So you're going to criticize me for the username I have here ? Great. Whats next ? Men with guns are reaching to me , aren't they ? And yes I call it 'making love'-not everything has to be in a dictionary .Heard about common sense ?
I don't get it, how it is equal to you or your god.Sex=start of life, Murder=end of life .

Also if you open your eyes to the reality of the world countless people both religious and non-religious alike have murdered their partners for cheating on them and also have killed people that have had affairs with their spouse, this alone shows the magnitude and sensitivity of the act on a moral level.

With your logic, the only solution to avoid road accidents is eliminating all the cars and have everybody walking by foot.Sexuality is a soo complex that neither you nor your *cough almighty *cough god gets it.When you are a teenager with raging hormones then you need it !People need it , to get rid of frustration, depression and tiredness. Give your body what it wants and when, there is no point in torturing the human body.If you want to then it is your own will to live your live like this and wait for the 'promised' orgy with your 72 virgins in the 'promised' land ! But remember, my human friend, they promise you heaven ONLY to steal the world from you. Beating people for adultery is very absurd ! If god didn't want this to happen then he shouldn't have given teenagers raging hormones or genitals in the first place, yet he did .
Why can't the perfect and most powerful deity get his sh*t together himself? Well yah, you are the 'creator' of this universe and you can't deal with a few humans yourself ?
Remember , it is wise to follow the dark as long as there is darkness but as soon as the sun rises it it foolish to follow the blind anymore.
Peace.

[pllaybuoy]

Also you are right. I am speechless, I really am. I am left with nothing but sympathy..for you.I feel sorry for you, I really do.

[Manzareh]

So you're going to criticize me for the username I have here ? Great. Whats next ? Men with guns are reaching to me , aren't they ?

do you know what criticize is? i never criticized you i just said you expect everyone to be ok with you being playboy but tough sh*t because not everyone wants to live your way of life, you took it so bad and sensitive that you now think people are after you with guns, take a chill pill, the drugs your on is causing some ridiculous paranoia.

And yes I call it 'making love'-not everything has to be in a dictionary .Heard about common sense ?
I don't get it, how it is equal to you or your god.Sex=start of life, Murder=end of life .

not everything has to be in a dictionary but if your debating about a specific word than atleast have the decency to stick to the correct description. you want to live in a sex crazed world where everyone is sexing everyone, every man is a playboy and every girl is a *****, you call that freedom, i call is anarchy.

With your logic, the only solution to avoid road accidents is eliminating all the cars and have everybody walking by foot.

This is exactly my point, if your driving on the road then you need to follow certain rules and regulations implemented by the law, when you drive in a way which goes against the driving authorities requirements you are punished. But with your logic everyone should be able to jump into everyone else's cars and also drive around wrecklessly in whatever fashion they want in their own cars since its their car and they own it so they can do whatever they want with it. Which ofcourse is proposterous, i guess your own example backfires on you.

Sexuality is a soo complex that neither you nor your *cough almighty *cough god gets it.When you are a teenager with raging hormones then you need it !People need it , to get rid of frustration, depression and tiredness. Give your body what it wants and when, there is no point in torturing the human body.If you want to then it is your own will to live your live like this and wait for the 'promised' orgy with your 72 virgins in the 'promised' land ! But remember, my human friend, they promise you heaven ONLY to steal the world from you. Beating people for adultery is very absurd ! If god didn't want this to happen then he shouldn't have given teenagers raging hormones or genitals in the first place, yet he did .
Why can't the perfect and most powerful deity get his sh*t together himself? Well yah, you are the 'creator' of this universe and you can't deal with a few humans yourself ?
Remember , it is wise to follow the dark as long as there is darkness but as soon as the sun rises it it foolish to follow the blind anymore.
Peace.

You are tongue twisting and confusing yourself and making an idiot out of yourself because you are unable to have a debate in a straight line. You start off by talking about honour killings being Islamic, when proven its not Islamic but cultural you reply with the punishments for adultery, when you are given a response regarding adultery you reply back talking about fornication, do you even know the difference? i dont think you even know what you are blabbering on about, rather than putting random words into a sentence and compiling it with a load of mumbo jumbo do some research on how to reply constructively.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Playboy, You tend to avoid a debate and merely use this thread for monologues.

[khushal]

In evolutionary biology, its called mate guarding. It natural not only amongst humans, but very common in the animal kingdom. In pashtunwali, one who can not or does not attempt to guard his mate is called a dawoos. In evolutionary biology, a dawoos would not have the ability to pas on his genes and would be considered on the lower end of natural selection.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Dawoos is derived from dayuth which is arabic. The Prophet sal allahu alayhi wasalam used the word dayuth for spineless men.