Sufism, non Muslim Sufism, Secular Sufism, Sufism as spiritualism and mysticism

[Badlun]

Sirhindi name in a chain is not enough proof that he was a Sufi totally on right path. I can also include my name in a chain but this alone will not qualify me to be a real Sufi. There are good and bad , true and false Sufis every where.

What I criticize Sirhindi is for his revolt against wahdatul wajood and his paving way for wahabism in India. He was mentor of Aurangzeb the fanatic Muslim ruler of India because of whom Mughals lost their power in India. This was Sirhindi who inspired Aurangzeb to introduce sharia on majority Hindu India and the repercussion was the loss of Mughul Empire. Akbar the Great was more pro wahdatul Wajood and thus gave the golden period of Mughul rule to the history.

Sirhindi also criticized Ibne Arabi , Rumi and other great Sufis. This does not suit him neither.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

That is one of the STRONGEST evidences because it means other Awliyah recognize him as one of their own. None of Awliyah recognize Osho, Meher Baba or Pir Inayat Khan, which is not a coincidence. You cannot include your name in a chain; because Chains are very special and there is an "accreditation" process. You lack this because you're concerned with Worldly Matters ....instead of God which is the point of Sufism.

Furthermore he fits the characteristics of Sufism; he followed Shari'ah he studied under Authentic Sufi Shayukh. He had 'IJAZA from these Shayukh. He went under Mystical Experiences and reached all the stages of 'Irfan.Osho, Meher Baba or Pir Inayat Khan, none of these men are Sufis; they're business men who are trying to market themselves. None of these men have had mystical experiences at all, the things they talk about are Vague and Flowery; something anyone can make up. In fact right now anyone can fabricate statements like Osho. It's easy but it also shows he was fake. You cannot do that with Sirhandi; Sirhandi requires depths and experience.

People who are are trying to portray themselves as Sufis but embrace Osho, Meher Baba etc. and all these fake Sufis are just hijacking the Sufi name to to exploit for their own agenda. Sirhandi never paved the way for Wahhabism in India; Wahhabism came nearly 170 years after Sirhandi. So how would this even be possible. Only an irrational person would say such a thing. Sirhindi states in his Maktoubat that Sufism is a crucial part of becoming a Genuine Muslim; Wahhabis say that Sufism is at odds with Islam TWO diametrically opposed views. So there's no way he could pave the way ONLY a person who is ignorant of Sihrindi would say that.

Sirhandi didn't criticize Rumi or Ibn 'Arabi; he only said that Wahdat Ul Wujud is an inferior state than Wahdat Ul Shuhud; which makes sense because Wahdat Ul Wujud is an Illusion in the mind; when we go through that state; it only SEEMS like everything is Wahdat, but things cannot be "Wahdat" because everything itself does not have it's "own" reality, thus it is Wahdat ul Shuhud, meaning it only APPEARS like everything is Wahdat, but the actual reality is that finite is not "Wahdat" with "Infinite" this can be proven Mathematically. Makes sense.

Is a finite set of Ordered pairs equal to an infinite set of ordered pairs? NO, so there is no Wahdat; but if you have an Uncountably Finite amount, which is a way of saying "something looks" Infinite but it is not, then to the the mind it seems like Wahdat Ul Wujud. But the reality is that it is an "imagination" so it's Shuhud.

[Tjanaparh]

As you started the Sufism theme, may I post some musical interpretations on Rumi poetry?
Maruf Ayambek - YouTube

[Tjanaparh]

shahrom-makun ey dust.avi - YouTube

[Tjanaparh]

GURUHI ANIS - SURATGAR - YouTube

[BarakzaiAbdali]

That is one of the STRONGEST evidences because it means other Awliyah recognize him as one of their own. None of Awliyah recognize Osho, Meher Baba or Pir Inayat Khan, which is not a coincidence. You cannot include your name in a chain; because Chains are very special and there is an "accreditation" process. You lack this because you're concerned with Worldly Matters ....instead of God which is the point of Sufism.

Furthermore he fits the characteristics of Sufism; he followed Shari'ah he studied under Authentic Sufi Shayukh. He had 'IJAZA from these Shayukh. He went under Mystical Experiences and reached all the stages of 'Irfan.Osho, Meher Baba or Pir Inayat Khan, none of these men are Sufis; they're business men who are trying to market themselves. None of these men have had mystical experiences at all, the things they talk about are Vague and Flowery; something anyone can make up. In fact right now anyone can fabricate statements like Osho. It's easy but it also shows he was fake. You cannot do that with Sirhandi; Sirhandi requires depths and experience.

People who are are trying to portray themselves as Sufis but embrace Osho, Meher Baba etc. and all these fake Sufis are just hijacking the Sufi name to to exploit for their own agenda. Sirhandi never paved the way for Wahhabism in India; Wahhabism came nearly 170 years after Sirhandi. So how would this even be possible. Only an irrational person would say such a thing. Sirhindi states in his Maktoubat that Sufism is a crucial part of becoming a Genuine Muslim; Wahhabis say that Sufism is at odds with Islam TWO diametrically opposed views. So there's no way he could pave the way ONLY a person who is ignorant of Sihrindi would say that.

Sirhandi didn't criticize Rumi or Ibn 'Arabi; he only said that Wahdat Ul Wujud is an inferior state than Wahdat Ul Shuhud; which makes sense because Wahdat Ul Wujud is an Illusion in the mind; when we go through that state; it only SEEMS like everything is Wahdat, but things cannot be "Wahdat" because everything itself does not have it's "own" reality, thus it is Wahdat ul Shuhud, meaning it only APPEARS like everything is Wahdat, but the actual reality is that finite is not "Wahdat" with "Infinite" this can be proven Mathematically. Makes sense.

Is a finite set of Ordered pairs equal to an infinite set of ordered pairs? NO, so there is no Wahdat; but if you have an Uncountably Finite amount, which is a way of saying "something looks" Infinite but it is not, then to the the mind it seems like Wahdat Ul Wujud. But the reality is that it is an "imagination" so it's Shuhud.

This is the tactic of the marxists, atheists, militant secularists. Its documented for posterity by M Hassan Kakar:

"Kishtmand’s promotion to the office of prime minister provoked the conservative, traditionalist Sunni Muslims: contrary to traditional and religious practices, an Isma’ili Gadee had become prime minister. In addition, Kishtmand and others were known to be atheists and communists, although they behaved as if they were Muslims. During the constitutional monarchy, when Kishtmand campaigned for a seat in parliament, he omitted the word “Ali” from his name in the election brochures. He did so because “Ali” represented Shi’ism, and he was concerned that, if he were so identified, the Sunnis of the Chardihi constituency would not elect him; and, indeed, he was not elected. While he was prime minister, even his own Gadees boycotted him."

http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpresse...uery=atheist#1

They are now secular capitalist democrats which is a hypocritical position to take since their lord and savior Najibushaytaan was an atheistic communist. The adoptation of the term "sufi" is an attempt to hoodwink the people, but will not work as it did not do so in the past.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

They are now secular capitalist democrats which is a hypocritical position to take since their lord and savior Najibushaytaan was an atheistic communist. The adoptation of the term "sufi" is an attempt to hoodwink the people, but will not work as it did not do so in the past.

It mainly works on Westerners or estranged Mashriqis since they've lost touch with their heritage; most of them are completely ignorant of the Sufi Heritage; only people who explore and study know that Badlun and Osho are just imposters. People who have grown up at least in tandem to the Sufi culture will know the difference right from the get go.

For example I am NOT a Sufi and I have never claimed to be; HOWEVER, My Kaka (treh) is one of the Khilafah of Sheikh Muhammad Ataullah Faizani (rah) and my grandfather was a Qadiri Sufi whose Murshid was Sayyid Hasan al-Jilani(rah). So I'm "aware" of the culture; I went to these halaqas and stuff. My mom's side of the family are ALL Ba'Alawiyah. Even she was initiated into Ba'Alawiyah (which is a branch of Qadiri and part of how my parents met but I won't get into that) when she was younger, but not really "following" it. My point being I've grown up with some aspect of people who stress Sufism in their lives ALL around me.

I know the difference I know how REAL Sufis are like, I know how the act what they do, what they're concerned about.

GRANTED I actually have my contentions with Sufism and certain Sufi doctrines; BUT unlike other Mu'tazilah I don't shun it on principles of our better understanding of the psychological dimensions of spiritual practice. However one thing I know is that the Sufis, the genuine ones (sadly Sayyid Hasan's son doesn't represent his father's grace but rides off of his father's name) were NON-WORLDLY, abstained from worldly pursuits.

Yet these Imposters are preaching everything that contradicts Sufism; how can they be Sufis? well simple answer, they aren't.

[Catya Sher]

I want to commend RTR for his excellent handling of this difficult topic.
I never thought i would be praising him after some of his earlier
remarks.
But his analysis is outstanding.
Thank you for expressing very well what I FELT but didn't quite
know how to articulate.

Badlun, why not become Goodlun ?!
I agree with you on one point, about Akbar versus Aurangzeb.
I strongly feel that Aurangzeb led the Moghul Empire to its eventual
decline and defeat. Why, after all, could the British have taken over
in a snap and manipulated Pakistan-India and whatever of the region
they could get their hands on into subservient status after
such glorious days under the best Moghul rulers, the ones up
to Aurangzeb ?

Nur Jahan was the real ruler during Jahangir's time, so I am
including HER.

[Badlun]

I thought you were really interested in non religious and non Islmaic Sufism as I saw in the other thread. Here you came to praise and depreciate. Please quote the posts here on such non Islamic Sufi circles and give your technical comments not commending one and cursing other.

I have proved that many Muslims including the names you mentioned do present Sufism in non religious tones but you did not refer to my posts.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

The Refutation of many of the Sufi Ahaadeeth by Sheikhul Islam ibn Taymiyyah

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah was asked about the words which were narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “My heaven and my earth could not contain Me, but the heart of My believing slave contains Me”?

He replied: Praise be to Allaah.

What they mentioned is from the Israa’eeliyyaat [reports narrated from Jewish sources], no isnaad is known for it from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). What it means is that Allaah puts love and knowledge of Himself in the heart of His slave.

The report, “The heart is the house of the Lord” is like the first report. The heart is the home or seat of faith in Allaah and of knowledge and love of Him.

They reported the words, “I was an unknown treasure and I wanted to be known, so I created mankind and taught them about Myself so that they would know Me.” These are not the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and I know of no isnaad for this, either saheeh (sound) or da’eef (weak).

They reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah created reason, and said to it, ‘Come here,’ and it came. He said to it, ‘Go there,’ and it went. He said, ‘By My Glory and Majesty, I have not created anything more noble than you. I shall reward and punish because of you.’” This hadeeth is baatil (false) and mawdoo’ (fabricated) according to the consensus of hadeeth scholars.

They narrate the words, “Love of this world is the root of all evil.” This is known from Jundub ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Bajali, but there is no known isnaad from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

They report the words, “This world is merely a step for the believing man.” This is not known from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or from the salaf of this ummah or its imams.

They report the words, “Whoever is blessed with a thing, let him stick with it” and, “Whoever commits himself to something, let him stick with it.” The first report was narrated from one of the salaf. The second report is baatil (false), for whoever commits himself to something may have to stick to it or he may not, according to what Allaah and His Messenger have commanded.

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Do favours for the poor, for tomorrow they will have authority, and what authority!” and, “Poverty is my pride and I boast of it.” Both of these are lies and are not known in any way in the well known books of the Muslims.

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I am the city of knowledge and ‘Ali is its gate.” This hadeeth is da’eef (weak); indeed it is mawdoo’ (fabricated) according to the scholars of hadeeth. It was narrated by al-Tirmidhi and others, but it is a lie.

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “The poor will sit down on the Day of Resurrection, and [Allaah] will say, ‘By My Glory and Majesty, I did not deprive you of worldly things because you are insignificant. Rather I wanted to raise your status on this Day. Go to the place where the people are standing, and whoever gave you a piece of bread, or water to drink, or clothes to wear, take him to Paradise .’” The shaykh said: this report is a lie which was not narrated by any of the scholars of hadeeth. It is baatil (false) and goes against the Qur’aan and Sunnah and scholarly consensus (ijmaa’).

They report that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Madeenah, the daughters of al-Najjaar came out with daffs (hand-drums) and sang “Tala’a al-Badru ‘alayna min thaniyyat al-Widaa”, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to them, “Shake your tambourines, may Allaah bless you.” The hadeeth about women beating the daff on joyous occasions is saheeh, and this was done at the time of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but it is not known that he said, “Shake your tambourines.”

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “O Allaah, You have brought me out of the place which is most beloved to me, so cause me to dwell in the place which is most beloved to You.” This hadeeth is also baatil (false), although it was narrated by al-Tirmidhi and others. Rather he said to Makkah, “You are the most beloved part of Allaah’s land to me.” And he said, “You are the most beloved land to Allaah.”

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever visits me and my father Ibraaheem in one year will enter Paradise .” This is a fabricated lie which was not narrated by any of the scholars of hadeeth.

They report that a Bedouin prayed (quickly), pecking (like a bird) in his prayer. ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said, “Do not peck in your prayer.” The Bedouin said, “O ‘Ali, if your father had pecked in prayer he would not have entered Hell.” This is a lie.

They report that ‘Umar killed his father. This is a lie, for his father died before the mission of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) began.

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “I was a Prophet when Adam was between the water and the clay. I was a Prophet when Adam was neither water nor clay.” This wording is false.

They report the words, “The bed of a single man is fire. Poor is the man who has no woman and the woman who has no man.” These are not the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

It was narrated that when Ibraaheem (peace be upon him) built the Ka’bah, he prayed one thousand rak’ahs in each corner, then Allaah revealed to him, “O Ibraaheem, this is not like feeding a hungry man or clothing a man who cannot cover his ‘awrah.” This is obviously a lie, and it is not known in the books of the Muslims.

They narrate the words, “Do not despise tribulation, for it will reap the hypocrites.” These words are not known from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

They narrate the words, “Whoever teaches his brother an aayah from the Book of Allaah becomes his master.” This is a lie which is not known at all in the books of the scholars.

They narrate that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “I looked at the sins of my ummah and I did not find any greater sin than that of one who learns an aayah then forgets it.” If this hadeeth is saheeh, what is meant is forgetting in the sense of not reciting. The wording of the hadeeth is: “Among the sins of my ummah is that of a man to whom Allaah gave an aayah of the Qur’aan, but he neglected it until he forgot it.” This forgetting means turning away from the Qur’aan and not believing in it or acting upon it. With regard to neglecting to study it until one forgets it, this is a sin.

They report the words, “One aayah of the Qur’aan is better than Muhammad and the family of Muhammad. The Qur’aan is the word of Allaah, revealed not created, and there is nothing like it.” This wording was not reported from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever learns something beneficial and conceals it from the Muslims, Allaah will bridle him with reins of fire on the Day of Resurrection.” A similar meaning is to be found in al-Sunan: the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever is asked about a matter of [Islamic] knowledge which he knows but he conceals it, Allaah will bridle him with reins of fire on the Day of Resurrection.”

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “When you come to talk about disputes which took place among my companions, be quiet. When you come to talk about the Divine will and decree (al-qadaa’ wa’l-qadar), keep quiet.” This was reported with munqati’ (broken or interrupted) isnaads.

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Salmaan al-Farsi when he was eating grapes, “Du, du,” meaning eat them two by two. These are not the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); this is baatil (false).

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever commits zina (fornication) with a woman and she gives birth to a girl, the fornicator may marry his daughter who was born as a result of zina.” This was said by those who were not among the companions of al-Shaafa’i. Some of them attributed it to al-Shaafa’i, and some of the companions of al-Shaafa’i denied that he said that. They said, he did not state that this is permitted, but he did state that this is permissible in the case of radaa’ah (breastfeeding), if he breastfed from the milk of a woman who got pregnant as a result of zina. Most of the scholars, such as Ahmad, Abu Haneefah and others, are agreed that this is haraam, and this is the stronger of the two opinions narrated in the madhhab of Maalik.

They report the words, “the most deserving thing for which you take payment is the Book of Allaah.” Yes, it is proven that [the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)] said, “The most deserving thing for which you take payment is the Book of Allaah,” but that was in the hadeeth about ruqyah (reciting Qur’aan and du’aa’s for the purpose of healing), and the reward was for the recovery of that sick person, not for the recitation.

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever mistreats a dhimmi (a Jew or Christian living under Islamic rule), Allaah will be his opponent on the Day of Resurrection” or “I will be his opponent on the Day of Resurrection.” This is da’eef (weak). What is known from him is that he said: “Whoever kills a mu’aahid (member of a kaafir nation which has a peace treaty with the Muslims) for no lawful reason will not smell the fragrance of Paradise .”

They report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever lights a lamp in the mosque, the angels and the bearers of the Throne will not cease to pray for forgiveness for him so long as the light of that lamp is shining in the mosque.” I know of no isnaad for this from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Al-Fataawa al-Kubra, 5/88-93

http://abdurrahman.org/innovation/therefutationofmany.html

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

[Shamlawar Khurasani]