Saudi preacher gets fine and short jail term for raping and killing daughter

[faye]

looks as though karachi's done a runner, when it comes to having to explain himself. typical.

[Karachi]

looks as though karachi's done a runner, when it comes to having to explain himself. typical.

explain what? I dont really care about you and your views. I will only explain myself to mentally sane people

[faye]

lol..first explain what is 'extremist', then explain how i am acting as a 'puppet of extremists'.
you are the one sounding like the extreme racist and extreme accuser of others as 'extremists'.

still waiting.........

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I will clarify my view

Regular Saudis being hateful to others and arrogant is actually the least of my concerns, they are what they are because that is how they were raised, hopefully they will change in the future as more and more get educated.

My real problem with saudi arabia is the state + wahabhi/salafi ideology

This is what my argument with Barkzai is about. People who defend this system, especially living outside, are part of the problem. God knows what makes them defend a system which is clearly inclined towards the corrupt government/royals of Saudi Arabia. Everybody knows that the Royals and Wahhabi are basically one, the whole state of Saudi Arabia was founded when these two were united. Any muslim defending the wahabis is basically defending the Royals, who are known western puppets. Also is wahabhism really an Islamic system? look at how ridiculous sentences they always seem to pass. I mean any sane person will see that this system is corrupt and is actually going against Islam, yet why are people like Barakzai so defensive about it?

I mean I wont have a problem with him if he criticizes the saudi system, just like he criticizes everything in the west. If he has balance in his criticism, he would sound more sane

Ok lets talk rationally.

I dont know whose posts you have been reading, but there is not a single post in all of the thousands of PF posts where I ever

1) Defend the Saudi government
2) Defend Bin Baaz or the clerics or any of the wahhabi administrators
3) Solely criticize the West or any western morals or institutions

I have only defended the right of people to ask more detailed questions about movements the West automatically labels as terrorist or out of league with Western goals.

For example, in George W Bush's time the Somali government was the Islamic Union Courts... a relatively moderate organization that reached out to the US and promised that they would NOT administer Taliban style punishments or law. The response was AFRICOM and payments to Ethiopa to invade which in turn resulted in radicalization of Somalians and the massive growth of membership in Shabaab and other organizations.

The same goes for Mali. You may think I am defending the Malian movements, but rather I am saying A) I dont trust the information that SKY news and others are posting and B) It shouldnt concern France, the US, the other Muslim countries or anyone else except Malians and Tauregs regarding what goes on there. In fact, prior to all of this, the West had equipped Mali's army and trained it and was utterly thrown off gaurd when the General they trained in the continental US overthrew the government.

So I challenge you to find a single post where I defend Saudi clerics or the government or any place where I solely blame the West or the East. Even when that guy Bale killed people in Panjwai, I made it clear that I think its foolish to think that wars dont result in such actions.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Hishighness Mullah Barakzay

He looks pretty comfortable and appears to be a peaceful person just reclining on his pillow.

My atheist "sufi" friend I find an interesting trait amongst your heroes though and I am sure the following will send you into another crazy hippity hoppity rage where you do terrarraay allover the forum posting irrevelent accomplishemnts:

Here is picture number 1 of your hero getting snuggly with the number 1 Pashtun killer



Here is picture number 2 of your other hero smiling and laughing and getting romantic with another pashtun killer

and finally, I became curious about this Sabar Nazer character... it appears like you he is an atheist marxist... but once again he is another urdoobaan hero.

The common trait appears to be that all your heroes are the biggest hypocrites and the heroes amongst the very urdoobaan you claim to be in enmity with.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I personally could care less if Toramana or whoever else has a racial or ideological agenda against Arabs or Islam. Arabs can handle themselves and Islam isn't going anywhere.


The focus is the girl whose life was destroyed and that no one who rules that country is concerned about levying justice for her case. It's as if to them she didn't matter and that she almost deserved what she got.

The protests in KSA are a wonderful sign that the social consciousness of the population is changing for the better.

Karachi may have lived in Saudi Arabia but given the Saudi history of institutionally sanctioned abuse against South Asians living there; it would have been very unwise for him to protest, not just for his own sake, but for his family's. So let's drop these childish retorts against him. He wasn't even a citizen in KSA, he could have very little effect there.]

Muslims should very much be concerned at the abuse and botching of justice occurring under the guise of Islam as this affects all of us. We don't need "reforms" we need a restoration to the true and honest principles

If so and so barks about Arabs and Islam; let them do it; that doesn't change the need to seek justice for a young girl murdered and tortured for nothing more than zealous rage and the judicial system that let him get away with it

Yeah but her memory should not be used except in the truest sense of caring and compassion and wanting to change things. If you had posted the article then I would agree with your sentiment - but Toramana has and had a completely different goal in mind and in my honest opinion that had to be addressed and his true intentions unmasked.

I would say even if karachi himself had posted the article and confirmed it he probably would not have done so for any other reason than to protest the injustice. Toramana however has a consistent history of referring to the Arab peoples as "camels" and camel jockeys as well as mocking the Quran and the Sirah of the Prophet Muhammad. He made it utterly clear in his followup posts that his intention was truly to show up Islamic law and not to protest this heinous crime. Its there in print and preserved for all to see.

[faye]

'terrorist' and 'extremist' have become throw away words, used to demonise and invalidate others. amusingly, the accuser, when asked to define what they mean, puts it's tail between it's legs and scuttles off....lol.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

'terrorist' and 'extremist' have become throw away words, used to demonise and invalidate others. amusingly, the accuser, when asked to define what they mean, puts it's tail between it's legs and scuttles off....lol.

I fervently agree. Its a blanket term that is used to silence dissent and pursue a killer agenda.

I mean its insane that people like Assange can be labeled as such and the whole world made to believe as such. But these folks would have it no other way and are sure to relativize morality to their own benefit.

These people throw the term around so easily without understanding the definitions of such words and the implications. Or, they do and are using it to inflict maximum damage in an attempt to silence their opposition without realizing that such approaches when used in history merely create blowback.

[Karachi]

Ok lets talk rationally.

I dont know whose posts you have been reading, but there is not a single post in all of the thousands of PF posts where I ever

1) Defend the Saudi government
2) Defend Bin Baaz or the clerics or any of the wahhabi administrators
3) Solely criticize the West or any western morals or institutions

I have only defended the right of people to ask more detailed questions about movements the West automatically labels as terrorist or out of league with Western goals.

For example, in George W Bush's time the Somali government was the Islamic Union Courts... a relatively moderate organization that reached out to the US and promised that they would NOT administer Taliban style punishments or law. The response was AFRICOM and payments to Ethiopa to invade which in turn resulted in radicalization of Somalians and the massive growth of membership in Shabaab and other organizations.

The same goes for Mali. You may think I am defending the Malian movements, but rather I am saying A) I dont trust the information that SKY news and others are posting and B) It shouldnt concern France, the US, the other Muslim countries or anyone else except Malians and Tauregs regarding what goes on there. In fact, prior to all of this, the West had equipped Mali's army and trained it and was utterly thrown off gaurd when the General they trained in the continental US overthrew the government.

So I challenge you to find a single post where I defend Saudi clerics or the government or any place where I solely blame the West or the East. Even when that guy Bale killed people in Panjwai, I made it clear that I think its foolish to think that wars dont result in such actions.

Ok, if those are your views, than I apologize for my harsh judgments and comments. It's just that I only see you commenting when some one creates a anti saudi state system or anti wahabhi/salafi thread, perhaps I have missed your comments on the other threads

I think it is a good Idea for every one of us to condemn what is clearly evil, doesn't matter if the west does it or muslims do it. Evil is evil and it should be condemned by everyone. Islamically we should always speak and follow the way of truth. That much we can defiantly agree on

Peace.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Ok, if those are your views, than I apologize for my harsh judgments and comments. It's just that I only see you commenting when some one creates a anti saudi state system or anti wahabhi/salafi thread, perhaps I have missed your comments on the other threads

I think it is a good Idea for every one of us to condemn what is clearly evil, doesn't matter if the west does it or muslims do it. Evil is evil and it should be condemned by everyone. Islamically we should always speak and follow the way of truth. That much we can defiantly agree on

Peace.

No problem. I apologise for my responses as well. I agree condemnation is a good thing but I also think its essential to understand what we are condemning and to find out as much as possible about

1) Why what we are condemning happened in the first place
2) Make sure we have all the information and hear out all the sides of the argument
3) Reflect deeply on history and its relevence and whether the movements are initiators of hostilities or responses to or the result of hostilities.

I would refer us to this excellent post to show how other members you may agree more with trying, in a perhaps in a more nuanced way, to help forum members understand that its not so easy nor is it fair or safe to simply label people who may have legitimate gripes apart from religion in their view:
http://www.pashtunforums.com/hujra-1...an-what-35728/

[faye]

karachi, i now await an explanation PLUS an apology.

[Soldat_Amir]

Dr BarakzaiAbdali who can be anybody behind a computer, is a apologist for Arab interests...He is also a staunch supporter of Taliban while working in US of A....which I doubt....Farhat Taj, the other day I spoke too, told me how this coward refused to meet up in Pakhtunkhwa for a debate over his Cyber-base-less claims over her work.

He is only good acting like an intellectual with his English writing skills on Pashtunforums, other than that hes nothing more than a Khaki Pakistani supporter LOL.

Saudis are one of the most racist people in the world, yet people like DrBarakzaIAbdali refuse to acknowledge this, even though non-Arabs in Saudi are treated and considered as Mushkreen.

Obviously your deluded faith turns you into a zombie and forces you with lack of any form of critical thinking.

The Mullah raped a child, his own child, he killed her over the fear she is no longer a Virgin, these Wahabists and Arab Muslims are obcessed with the private parts of women being intact, they ban women from driving because they fear they will reduce population of virgins..............................Will we see a single Muslim out there protest against this cleric?????

Ohhhh nooooooo...........It will never happen!

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Dear Soldat .....aka treacherous jack ass who praises the murders of 1.4 Million Afghans at the hands of tyrannic Soviet imperialists. If you've been paying attention and not groveling in your own verbal fecal matter. You'd see that's what this thread has been about, Muslims protesting the Saudis and this so called alim over this matter. We've also deplored BarakzaiAbdalis disproportionate angst over Toramana's rants rather than the issue of an innocent girl dying for nothing else than deranged motives. We don't need some hypocrite to aid us on this matter. So go back to youtube and make more intellectually bankrupt videos which only Serbian Drug Pushers and sex traffickers or Alcoholic former Soviet romanticists would enjoy.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Miss Anderson is lying to you and I can prove it you sheep. Ask her to post her supposed nonexistent communications with me - email and all. Or ask her to send them your way and you can do it for Miss ANDERSEN since she is getting busy with Mr Andersen of the nonexistent Andersenzai clan of the bangash tribe. I have never communicated with that filthy murderous woman. She's just all hot and bothered that folks like Clive stafford Smith have proven her baseless low sample size data as unreliable and ambiguous as did the huffIngton post - the former conclusively rebutted her idiotic claim that no civilians were rendered casualities.

Also, lets talk real simply about why this clowness doesnt warrant a public forum. Lets also analyze her claim in a bit more detail. So time and time again this lady claims she has "sources" and "ears on the ground" and that in hidden corners of Wana market she can hear whispers longing for her name and backing her claims. To that end, Miss Andersen claimed, in a now infamous article of hers, that the leader of the Salarzai Laskhgaar was killed by the Taliban and ISI nexus. Lets pause here to consider her claim:
Point 1) Boiled down to simply: I Miss Andersen have solid sources and I am bringing you the public, the utmost truth and have been doing so!

So then, that very leader of the laskgaar writes The News and provides his mobile number and derides her for making his far flung family members think he was dead. Basically, he made her look like a propagandist fool and proved that her "sources" are idiotic. Here is his commentary:

It is indeed shocking to know through an article which appeared in your newspaper on Sept 27 titled “The Taliban and the Salarzais” by Farhat Taj that I am dead and that the ISI is responsible for my killing. It is to bring to the notice of all that I am very much alive and can be contacted on telephone no 0300-7044755. It is highly regrettable that the news of someone’s death is published without verification. The writer must apologise for the trauma caused to my family and well-wishers.


Malik Munasib Khan
Spokesman, Salarzais Lashkar
Bajaur Agency

Point 2) Her source then turns out to be, PER HER, an ISI agent:

"Now coming to the letter of Malik Munasib Khan. As can bee seen in my article, the information about him was communicated to me via phone by the Salarzai leaders. I was also given two other names who they said were killed along with Mulik Munasib. I clearly remember all these names. I did not mention their names in my article because I was told they were not leaders of the lashkar. The problem is that I am now back in Norway and cannot go to the Salarzai leaders to see whether this news was a misunderstanding or mistake. The Salarzai leaders complain that their phones are being taped by the ISI and they cannot talk anything about the article on phone. So I have no option to wait until the leaders are confident enough talk on phone."
Yahoo! Groups

Meaning, She on the one hand claims that her information is ground breaking, authentic, and reliable and shows the true Pashtun character, yet on the other hand she complains of ISI feeds cloudying the waters. So which is it??? Is her information reliable or is it ISI filtered????

She basically defeats her own self with this sheer display of incompetence! One need not devote even a millsecond of though to her propaganda.

If she wants to debate, the answer is simple. She doesnt even need to waste her time drawing up a defense of her illiterate jahil meanderings. She should just take a video cam, go to Kandahar, Wana, Quetta and preferably into the village. Then, she should stand there with her husband Mr. Andersen and state all the things she believes and try to see what the villagers think of her marriage to Mr. Andersen as well as her logic regarding war against Pashtuns. Mr. Andersen should be wearing his native clothes etc. She can then do an oral recitation over the loud speaker of her articles and see how she fares ! lol.

So let's see my supposed communication with your busom buddy. Otherwise keep quiet and press those communist lips of yours against lavanays rectum and deeply inhale since you appear to thrive on imbibing and exhaling pure bull**** in your writing, like the stuff she feeds you - and like you, he is full of it.

Dr BarakzaiAbdali who can be anybody behind a computer, is a apologist for Arab interests...He is also a staunch supporter of Taliban while working in US of A....which I doubt....Farhat Taj, the other day I spoke too, told me how this coward refused to meet up in Pakhtunkhwa for a debate over his Cyber-base-less claims over her work.

He is only good acting like an intellectual with his English writing skills on Pashtunforums, other than that hes nothing more than a Khaki Pakistani supporter LOL.

Saudis are one of the most racist people in the world, yet people like DrBarakzaIAbdali refuse to acknowledge this, even though non-Arabs in Saudi are treated and considered as Mushkreen.

Obviously your deluded faith turns you into a zombie and forces you with lack of any form of critical thinking.

The Mullah raped a child, his own child, he killed her over the fear she is no longer a Virgin, these Wahabists and Arab Muslims are obcessed with the private parts of women being intact, they ban women from driving because they fear they will reduce population of virgins..............................Will we see a single Muslim out there protest against this cleric?????

Ohhhh nooooooo...........It will never happen!

[BarakzaiAbdali]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/social.../message/15901

Notice also that she tries to float/shop the article on the socialist network and one of the members is smart enough to provide the Malik's response.

Here is the socialist site's front page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/

Confirming the links to the folks that bought us all Afghan War Part 1 ala the Soviet invasion when they tried to "socialize/communize" Afghanistan ala Najibushaytaan.

This pretty much proves what I have been saying since day 1. These folks like the badluns, Toramanas, Soldats represent a minority within the Pashtun community who are he-ll bent on imposing completely foreign ideologies (far more foreign than the Islam that has been there for hundreds of years) while trying to camoflouge that with deflections of "Arab imperialism."

Using an extension of their own quote and turning it against them:

"Sure, I may have been a Pashtun for a thousand years, and I may have been a Muslim for 600 years, but how long have we been hypocritical socialist/communist sympathizers born again as democratic capitalists?"

Answer: 0 years

Case closed