Illuminated Muslims

[RevolutionThroughReason]

My foot you are coming back...you are coming back to clean our toilets and our shoes.
Science and Math does not belong to anybody.

It was the Mu'tazilah who helped to develop the sciences; your forefather's tried to stop science because they were afraid that it would contradict their beliefs.

Look at how you reject so much science like evolution even though we see evidence and experiments

Once I asked if Humans were literally made from clay, how come we don't have silicate compounds composing our body, Your response was just to say "God magically changed it" ....that's not science. this is what your "forefathers" taught.

For us Mu'tazilah we can look at verses metaphorically and harmonize with science; Your forefathers opposed science.

These are your forefathers












These are my forefathers of the Mu'taziliyeen














In the battle between Knowledge and Ignorance the Mu'taziliyeen are the sword of knowledge fighting against your forefather's ignorance/

[RevolutionThroughReason]

1.I can talk for me not you.
2.Those illnesses are very good preventable in other ways, but sure RTR wants the most primitive and most costing way, that will even give children other problems. What a nice, saying Schroedinger isn'T actual but he himself getting on non actual issues.
3.And most important, talk for Yourself, and leave Your conspiracy theories. You are neither the lawyer of science, neither the representative of poor pashtun children.

Most primitive and costing? It will cost more if you tried to cure polio with Herbal tea because that never showed any effects of polio and thus these kids will ended up spending more in medical expenses they can't afford, please teach this ignorance to Armenians not Afghans,

conspiracy theories? This is coming from the guy who thinks science is a big conspiracy to poison children lol

[faye]

Their idea of "Oneness" you speak of was not based on Why, everyone knew everything was "one"


the information you're into everyone already knew, Even scientists, but it's scientists who are now figuring out why everything is as it is. This makes it merely a shallow attempt to do what science can do much more deeply, beautifully and profoundly

Bohm and Schroedinger laid the foundations of Modern Quantum Physics; but what they knew was JUST the beginning, what we know now surpassed even what they knew. So yes we now know more because we have done more research, experiments and calculations. We now know more than 2 dozen fundamental particles; we're now on the trail of the Boson

It may piss off people Areva who hate science and knowledge and want to keep people ignorent, like Pashtun children should die miserably from preventable illnesses to validate his archaic beliefs.



see just as I thought the Aborginals are only talking about ecological oneness or interconnectedness (by the way interconnectedness and oneness are two different concepts). They never understood why that was the case, this is something science showed the world as evolution.

You just disproved your own argument here ...thanks for handing me your jugular? You're right science is modifying its theories constantly; that's the beauty of it, the Aboriginals can't modify their ideas, they're stuck in their shallow knowledge forever.

What science is telling us now is that things are not even things, so thus not everything is one, that material reality is just different arrangements of information, not a thing or "everything" at all.

information is something, so if 'life the universe and everything' is only information, then information is "everything". then what creates and propels this information according to our scientist GODS?

you see, your limited mindset and incapacity to incorporate what the aboriginal is describing there?
within the oneness or nothingness of both the known and unknown, emptiness/form, spirit/matter, or 'information', there is an interconnectedness, whether reality is an illusion/hologram/agreed upon hallucination, 'informaation' or not. if scientists, as 'information' are not connected to the 'information', then how can they realise 'information'?

so, regarding the composition and the WHY, of everything and nothing, you can say, that primitive peoples did not have an inherent awareness of what ALL THAT IS, is all about or not about, which the industrial and technological world has put aside, due to development in other areas of consciousness, but that does not mean it is true.

so how is the 'THEORY of evolution' then, more valid, than what aboriginals may have known, which allowed them to 'information' so long, without 'informationing' the 'information' with toxic 'information',
if all is only INFORMATION? the theory of 'information' is merely information then, about information.

[faye]

aren't 2 dozen particles or antiparticles, still to do with mass, therefore 'something'?
and if everything is nothing described as 'information', why chase the boson? that is like, information, informationing information. which sounds a bit like scientists chasing their own tail. which is obviously only 'information'.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

information is something, so if 'life the universe and everything' is only information, then information is "everything". then what creates and propels this information according to our scientist GODS?

you see, your limited mindset and incapacity to incorporate what the aboriginal is describing there?
within the oneness or nothingness of both the known and unknown, emptiness/form, spirit/matter, or 'information', there is an interconnectedness, whether reality is an illusion/hologram/agreed upon hallucination, 'informaation' or not. if scientists, as 'information' are not connected to the 'information', then how can they realise 'information'?

so, regarding the composition and the WHY, of everything and nothing, you can say, that primitive peoples did not have an inherent awareness of what ALL THAT IS, is all about or not about, which the industrial and technological world has put aside, due to development in other areas of consciousness, but that does not mean it is true.

so how is the 'THEORY of evolution' then, more valid, than what aboriginals may have known, which allowed them to 'information' so long, without 'informationing' the 'information' with toxic 'information',
if all is only INFORMATION? the theory of 'information' is merely information then, about information.

Information isn't a thing, ....please show me a discrete location for information, the fact you put quotes around "something" demonstrates it is not a thing it is immaterial

There is only interconnectedness of objects the reality of objects has no connection, connection loses its meaning, This is the failures of your aborgines that the brilliance of science has surpassed.

People use the "limited mindset" scapegoat to justiofy nonsense; you're no different, in fact it is your "limited mindset" that is limited to ideas of "connectness" and "oneness of all things"....the higher minds have surpassed that.

[faye]

lol, you emean the higher minds like yours? DEGRADATIONTHROUGHBIGOTRY'

nothing is something that isn't anything.

science is in it's baby stage. suck it up.

so tell us about telepathy, probable selves, probable realities, how simultaneous timee works, reincarnation, infinite number of different realms, astral travel, ever expanding consciousness, creating 'reality' with ones thoughts, how you know primitive peoples did not have this knowledge inherently, about the everything/nothing, mr unlimited.

the illusion that you are reading a post by faye is information for you. absorb and expand your emptiness.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

haha there's a different between hocus pocus and science dear, don't mix it up

[faye]

how? isn't it all information/nothing?

if everything, wihich is nothing/'information', is an illusion and humans have been tricked into thinking it terms of solidity/mass, couldn't science also be trickery and hocus pocus of the ultimate magician?

if within this non-existent 'information'/illusion, you choose to use your free will to create limitations in your capacity to consider outside of certain fields, then that is your choice, but does not disprove the possiblility that illusion, as 'information', can be a limitless variety of 'informations.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Faye, you're trying to turn new agery goofery and root it in science; even Schroedinger or David Bohm wouldn't interpret things the way you are, and your Aboriginal Theories about the web of life (something known and perceived for centuries) is quite different from the Quantum Mechnical Anomalies of Matter/Energy,

[Badlun]

Yesterday I was travelling with a Shia friend and in a journey of hours. We debated Shia Islam and I could not find a single flaw in their approach except their stress on Imamat. A lot of similarities were found between Sunni (Hanafi)and Shia Islam. Imam Jafar Sadiq was the teacher of Imam Abu Hanifa.

We also discovered a strange coincidence that all these illuminated muslims like Ismailis concentrate less on form and more on spirit.Instead of formalities they go to the essence. I want to study this aspect more deep.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Yesterday I was travelling with a Shia friend and in a journey of hours. We debated Shia Islam and I could not find a single flaw in their approach except their stress on Imamat. A lot of similarities were found between Sunni (Hanafi)and Shia Islam. Imam Jafar Sadiq was the teacher of Imam Abu Hanifa.

We also discovered a strange coincidence that all these illuminated muslims like Ismailis concentrate less on form and more on spirit.Instead of formalities they go to the essence. I want to study this aspect more deep.

You should study the Mu'tazilah; they go beyond Ismaili's and go for Logic and reason rather than blind mysticism. They were responsible for creating the Islamic Golden Age when Muslim were focused on Science and Math

the Mu'tazilah doctrine is slowly spreading amongst Pashtuns, as I myself am a Mu'tazilite and RESISTANCE is becoming interested.

[badmash_khel]

As they say "Be the chage you want to see in the world"

If each of us focused on perfecting ourselves, the world would be a better place. I don't believe in waiting for a messiah to rescue us. God says he doesn't chane the state of those who don't change themselves. There are still illumiated beings out there even among the Pashtuns. Its our job to look for them and learn from them and spread their message. No weapons or technological knowledge is needed to bring about the change necessary, the enemy is within not out there. Imagine a whole nation of englightened beings, the possiblities are endless.

[faye]

Faye, you're trying to turn new agery goofery and root it in science; even Schroedinger or David Bohm wouldn't interpret things the way you are, and your Aboriginal Theories about the web of life (something known and perceived for centuries) is quite different from the Quantum Mechnical Anomalies of Matter/Energy,

illusion, the dreaming, agreed upon hallucinatation, and so on, didn't need your scientific interpretations. you don't get it, because you are limitated by your incapacity to consider the possiblity that the theory of evolution, may not be true and that the evolution in consciousness, therefore could allow primitive peoples to be more advanced than science, in their interpretation and knowing, of 'everything and nothing'.

you said...'SCIENCE is telling us ..things are not even things....just different arrangements of information'
so scientists and science itself, are 'not even things'?

so, who are the WE who are on the trail of the BOSON?

isn't the illusion/information, as things whish are not things, a something?
isn't the 'I', that is looking for the boson, a something, in the sense that it obviously "IS".
in the illusion and without the illusion, consciousness, 'IS'.

[faye]

well that's only because peiople like yiou have decided to misuse science's knowledge for evil; science doesn't tell people to do it; people like you who are greedy take it and don't use it responsibly.

how can science be a child when science is just nature and nature is older than even your goofy Aborginal hypotheses?

you see here, how you become hysterical, unreasonable and illogical.

don't you supposed mutazillah have to disprove the aboriginal view of reality/non-reality by LOGIC and SCIENCE, before calling it 'goofy' and disprove telepathy, astral travel, probability selves, probability realities and infinite number of different realms, before calling it 'hocus pocus'?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

illusion, the dreaming, agreed upon hallucinatation, and so on, didn't need your scientific interpretations. you don't get it, because you are limitated by your incapacity to consider the possiblity that the theory of evolution, may not be true and that the evolution in consciousness, therefore could allow primitive peoples to be more advanced than science, in their interpretation and knowing, of 'everything and nothing'.

you said...'SCIENCE is telling us ..things are not even things....just different arrangements of information'
so scientists and science itself, are 'not even things'?

so, who are the WE who are on the trail of the BOSON?

isn't the illusion/information, as things whish are not things, a something?
isn't the 'I', that is looking for the boson, a something, in the sense that it obviously "IS".

Your only counter response seem to be accusing someone limited; but let's put it square in the arena.

For all your reallyWhat results did the Aborgines ever produce, Ask an aborigine to demonstrate his claims in a lab. Ask a Physicist, the truth claims are Miles apart.

What's laughable here is how desperately and unsuccessfully you're trying to make your Australian hippie garbage sound more impressive by saying some nebulous remark like "CONSCIOUSNESS IS" to seem more profound As if you're uttering some Biblical Passage "I AM WHAT I AM:.

By the way I never said consciousness or information is an "illusion"; I said it is not matter, not a thing. Consciousness is a mechanism without any spatial or known localized properties that influences the universe.

You take this to mean Illusion due to your limited , poorly formed aboriginal understandings and attempt at trying to relate everything to that. We have surpassed this exponentially......Even the "Oneness" you speak of in Aboriginal quotes .....has little to do with Nature itself, just ecosystems, a small very small subset of nature.