Illuminated Muslims

[Tjanaparh]

Our forefathers refuted Mutazilahs,those who rebeled ended as dog fodder.

For what reason such a cruelty? What did Mutazilah so bad to be killed?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

oh. i thought you were talking about individuals who have achieved spiritual illumination.

i think of western societies as having evolved in certain spheres and devolved in others. we have more capacity to create 'things' and we have made an ideal of acceptance and sharing with others, to which some fully adhere, but we have lost our connection to nature.
science is seeming to realise that, in fact, everything is one and interconnected, but certain primitive peoples have known that, for centuries. the australian native society is said to be possibly 60,000 years old, in australia, and they believe in the interconnectedness of humans and the rest of creation.

That's somewhat of a misleading argument, science isn't saying everything is "one" nor do primitive people claim "everything" is one. Science is demostrating the ecological symbiosis in nature and similarly primitive people have done similar; but this isn't something science has claimed didn't exist pror, in fact science has asked the question WHY does it appear that "everything is interconnected" a question the Australian Aborginals DID NOT have an answer for. Science found the answer, it was Evolution.

Science's advantage is it answers the questions that the primitives once had it gives them a REAL explanation. Science too connections us to nature, more so than Aboriginal Australian hypothesis because it gives us a sound and clear picture of it which we can cohere to more soundly. What disconnects us to nature is our insulation from it.

in the end it is a zero sum game, the primitives have provided little for their own people in the way of advancing their understanding of nature or the universe. Where as science has brings us face to face with the substomic realm

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Our forefathers refuted Mutazilahs,those who rebeled ended as dog fodder.

If your forefathers refuted the Mu'tazilah, how come your forefathers were wrong about their understanding of nature and the Mu'tazilah were correct?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Stronger in what....your aqida is flawed sorry to say.

Taliban doctrine ? the amir should order the soldiers to do what our forefathers did to muttzeals.

Stronger in science, math, organization,. logic, social governance, how to apply religion in society, how to create prosperity for their people, how to make them a powerful force against the infidels, how to develop deeper understanding of nature, how to improve economy, how to defend themselves against outsiders, how to create a massive empire, how to have self confidence.

Your Amir is hiding like a woman behind Pakistani ISI, just like your forefather's did when the Mu'tazilah established the Khilfah Al 'Abbasiyah

Other Muslims are waking up and seeing the big mistakes of your "forefathers"

[RevolutionThroughReason]

For what reason such a cruelty? What did Mutazilah so bad to be killed?

2010's ideology pushes blind adherence, They're afraid of people debating or questioning their ideas because they don't want to be disproven so they try to silence those who have more knowledge than them

[ډګروال]

شکر دی خدایه
چه افغانان د دی شان نوېتسونېانو خلکوپه چلونو کښی نه کیریږی.
دوی دا فکر کوي چه افغانان جاهله خلک دي او دوی ته پر انتظار دی چه اوس
مسلمان یی کړي.
الله پاک دی ټول پښتانه او نور مسلمانان د دی نوېتسونېانو د شر او فساد ځښه وساتي .
امین

[RevolutionThroughReason]

شکر دی خدایه
چه افغانان د دی شان نوېتسونېانو خلکوپه چلونو کښی نه کیریږی.
دوی دا فکر کوي چه افغانان جاهله خلک دي او دوی ته پر انتظار دی چه اوس
مسلمان یی کړي.
الله پاک دی ټول پښتانه او نور مسلمانان د دی نوېتسونېانو د شر او فساد ځښه وساتي .
امین

[faye]

That's somewhat of a misleading argument, science isn't saying everything is "one" nor do primitive people claim "everything" is one. Science is demostrating the ecological symbiosis in nature and similarly primitive people have done similar; but this isn't something science has claimed didn't exist pror, in fact science has asked the question WHY does it appear that "everything is interconnected" a question the Australian Aborginals DID NOT have an answer for. Science found the answer, it was Evolution.

Science's advantage is it answers the questions that the primitives once had it gives them a REAL explanation. Science too connections us to nature, more so than Aboriginal Australian hypothesis because it gives us a sound and clear picture of it which we can cohere to more soundly. What disconnects us to nature is our insulation from it.

in the end it is a zero sum game, the primitives have provided little for their own people in the way of advancing their understanding of nature or the universe. Where as science has brings us face to face with the substomic realm

lol. so david bohm and erwin schrodinger (physicists)are not scientists?
shcrodinger-"quantum physics thus reveals a basic oneness of the universe"
bohm: "yet at a deeper level matter and consciousness are actually inseperable and interwoven..."
implicate order=the underlying unity of everything as an ordered whole.

aboriginals didn't need an explanation about reality from scientists. maybe they KNEW why it is interconnected, or does western superiority not find that feasible?
you think living on and surviving from the land, possessing about 3 material belongings, for about 60,000 years, aboriginals needed western scientists to explain reality to them?

look at society today, with all this so called knowledge from science, where has it got us? they still haven't worked out why humans are violent and how to solve that problem.
do you think these societies, east and west, will all last another 60,000 years without having completely toxified the planet, with scienfifically invented pollutants?

science is still a child and their theories are not all proven. as in the theory of evolution and quantum mechanics, it is still only speculation.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

lol. so david bohm and erwin schrodinger (phusicists)are not scientists?
shcrodinger-"quantum physics thus reveals a basic oneness of the universe"
bohm: "yet at a deeper level matter and consciousness are actually inseperable and interwoven..."

Sure I'm sure they have made these remarks but we've come a long way from even THEIR understanding, rather "matter and consciousness are one" rather that matter depends on consciousness, that everything that we know about the physical universe depends on consciousness.

aboriginals didn't need an explanation about reality from scientists. maybe they KNEW why it is interconnected,

If they knew it they certainly showed their lack of comprehension of it

look at society today, with all this so called knowledge from science, where has it got us?

it got us to the truth or at least closer to it; Science is not Western, or Eastern it is Nature. What modern science has revealed is that Matter as we know it is not an actual substance but something related to consciousness itself. That's a bridge no Aboriginal could create no matter how much wandering with three belongs they did. The cute little quotes made by the pioneers of Quantum Physics are just the shallow tip of the ice berg.

*they still haven't worked out why humans are violent and how to solve that problem.

That's not science's job; science is only to show how nature works; it bears no responsibility for what you chose to do with it

do you think these societies, east and west, will all last another 60,000 years without having completely toxified the planet, with scienfifically invented pollutants?

well that's only because peiople like yiou have decided to misuse science's knowledge for evil; science doesn't tell people to do it; people like you who are greedy take it and don't use it responsibly.

how can science be a child when science is just nature and nature is older than even your goofy Aborginal hypotheses?

[faye]

science isn't saying everything is "one" nor do primitive people claim "everything" is one.

in the end it is a zero sum game, the primitives have provided little for their own people in the way of advancing their understanding of nature or the universe. Where as science has brings us face to face with the substomic realm

they already had their understanding of the oneness of everything. they are having problems now, with being forced from their own lifestyle and land.
how would you go, if we put you in the wilderness with nothing? no computer for company? had to hunt to eat? even with all your scientific knowhow, you'd more than likely, start crying.

this is what you said. "science ISN'T saying everything is one". but scientists are.

so you have a bigger picture than these 'cute quotes' and bohm's ideas?

the information i am into, is light years ahead of science. that is why i am interested to see where science is heading.

and you said.."nor do primitive people claim everything is one".

"our spirituality is a oneness and an interconectedness with all that lives and breathes. even with all that does not live and breathe" mudrooroo, aboriginal writer.

[Afghanistan2010]

For what reason such a cruelty? What did Mutazilah so bad to be killed?

They pushed for their beliefs with crimes ....tried to kill the scholars and other activities they rebelled against the muslims.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

they already had their understanding of the oneness of everything. they are having problems now, with being forced from their own lifestyle and land.
how would you go, if we put you in the wilderness with nothing? no computer for company? had to hunt to eat? even with all your scientific knowhow, you'd more than likely, start crying.

this is what you said. "science ISN'T saying everything is one". but scientists are.

so you have a bigger picture than these 'cute quotes' and bohm's ideas?

the information i am into, is light years ahead of science. that is why i am interested to see where science is heading.

and you said.."nor do primitive people claim everything is one".

"our spirituality is a oneness and an interconectedness with all that lives and breathes. even with all that does not live and breathe" mudrooroo, aboriginal writer.

Their idea of "Oneness" you speak of was not based on Why, everyone knew everything was "one"


the information you're into everyone already knew, Even scientists, but it's scientists who are now figuring out why everything is as it is. This makes it merely a shallow attempt to do what science can do much more deeply, beautifully and profoundly

Bohm and Schroedinger laid the foundations of Modern Quantum Physics; but what they knew was JUST the beginning, what we know now surpassed even what they knew. So yes we now know more because we have done more research, experiments and calculations. We now know more than 2 dozen fundamental particles; we're now on the trail of the Boson

It may piss off people Areva who hate science and knowledge and want to keep people ignorent, like Pashtun children should die miserably from preventable illnesses to validate his archaic beliefs.

"our spirituality is a oneness and an interconectedness with all that lives and breathes. even with all that does not live and breathe" mudrooroo, aboriginal writer.

see just as I thought the Aborginals are only talking about ecological oneness or interconnectedness (by the way interconnectedness and oneness are two different concepts). They never understood why that was the case, this is something science showed the world as evolution.

You just disproved your own argument here ...thanks for handing me your jugular? You're right science is modifying its theories constantly; that's the beauty of it, the Aboriginals can't modify their ideas, they're stuck in their shallow knowledge forever.

What science is telling us now is that things are not even things, so thus not everything is one, that material reality is just different arrangements of information, not a thing or "everything" at all.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

They pushed for their beliefs with crimes ....tried to kill the scholars and other activities they rebelled against the muslims.

Mu'tazilah only punsihed the corrupt who disguised themselves as men of knowledge like Ahmad Habal to prevent their fitnah from destroying Muslims, it is your forefathers who rebelled against the Muslims by trying to keep them backwards. You attacked the Mu'tazilah out of jealousy and greed for power to prevent Muslims from having knowledge

this is why we are now coming back, the Muslims see the big mistake they made by allowing Mullah Sandwich and Khomeini rule them.

They now see that the Mu'tazilah are right and now want to learn science and math which your forefathers hated. See even now you want to take the fruits of Mu'tazilah by trying to study science and math; even though you're bad at it.

[Afghanistan2010]

My foot you are coming back...you are coming back to clean our toilets and our shoes.
Science and Math does not belong to anybody.

[Tjanaparh]

It may piss off people Areva who hate science and knowledge and want to keep people ignorent, like Pashtun children should die miserably from preventable illnesses to validate his archaic beliefs.

1.I can talk for me not you.
2.Those illnesses are very good preventable in other ways, but sure RTR wants the most primitive and most costing way, that will even give children other problems. What a nice, saying Schroedinger isn'T actual but he himself getting on non actual issues.
3.And most important, talk for Yourself, and leave Your conspiracy theories. You are neither the lawyer of science, neither the representative of poor pashtun children.