Illuminated Muslims

[R3SISTANC3]

It seems that every time those Muslims who reached a level of illumination, they diverted and became corrupt, and instead of using what they have learnt to benefit all they became exclusive keeping knowledge and wealth midst themselves. Ismailis, Agha Khanis, Ahmedis, Bahai's, to name a few.

Main stream Shia and Sunni Islam are unfortunately plagued by the ultra conservative neanderthals or the day time Muslims by name only.

Is there any hope....any other group out there to uplift the Muslim masses? Hizb and Brotherhood....far from it. Suffer from the same diseases as the main streamers do.

Perhaps a resurgence of the Mu'tazilites....are these guys around..?

[faye]

i believe, if they became corrupt, it means they were not illuminated.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Mu'tazilli

[R3SISTANC3]

i believe, if they became corrupt, it means they were not illuminated.

Well that's the thing with Illumination, it gives you power, and power if not handled correctly corrupts you. For example the power of music, art and film. You can use it to do good or use it to corrupt. Same goes for science and technology.

Studies shows that humans and other living things are naturally inclined to share, help each other, do what we call "good". Then self interest comes in, ego comes in, greed comes in, what Muslims call the "nafs", against that the self must fight Jihad which indeed is called Jihad Al-Akbar.

[R3SISTANC3]

Mu'tazilli

But where are they, is there any revival movement...?

[faye]

that is not how i view illumination at all.
i think of it as knowledge, expansion/heightening of consciousness, that leads more to love and understanding of how reality is created and works, than power, in the sense that you are using it.
heightening of consciousness would lead to a lessening of such superficial desires as greed and wanting to have controlling power over others.

[R3SISTANC3]

Everything has two sides, just because you reach illumination of sorts, doesn't mean you do good. Your understanding changes, and you view right and wrong differently. You are catering to your personal sentimental values.

Right now social engineers whom you and I can fault with many things do not necessarily view themselves as evil or bad. Most believe what they are doing is good for humanity. A single power structure, control of knowledge, technology, and medicine overseen by those who they think can be entrusted with it. They also suffer from their own cultural, linguist, and racial biases in favor of which most other societies alien to them pay greatly.

The African continent is a prime example of this. Raped by all some-what illuminated societies at the expense of African people.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The unique property of the Mu'tazilah is that in the Mu'tazilah paradigm Islam is not some static set of rules but a living organism which can make decisions appropriate to the circumstances that surround it

There was a thread about Secularism and Islam; EmKhan/Friend said as long as the Hudud don't change then everything is up for debate; but this wrong, In Islam numerous examples from the time of Khilafah show the application of punishments depended on many factors and this is true about all other aspects of Islam too. It is this organic/cognitive approach which allowed many relevant applications of Islam and productive problem solving. The Mu'tazilah instead of just mindlessly reacting and rendering a verdict, can modify their approach based on what is practical, necessary and appropriate.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

But where are they, is there any revival movement...?

well that's the thing, it doesn't need to be a movement, it is a revolution in consciousness. Most Mu'tazilah are Sunni Muslims who followed the traditional Sunni Fiqh, what was different about them was their approach and attitude.

Where as the bigoted shallow minded Taliban would say "Shi'a insult Sahaba ...therefore Shi'a kafir ugh ugh ...kill them when they're praying"

the Mu'tazilah will say "Shi'a are wrong in some of their accusations, correct in others, let's debate and weigh the evidence, we take their merits but shun their errors, let's be as objective as possible without stirring animosity"

[faye]

Everything has two sides, just because you reach illumination of sorts, doesn't mean you do good. Your understanding changes, and you view right and wrong differently. You are catering to your personal sentimental values.

oh. i thought you were talking about individuals who have achieved spiritual illumination.

i think of western societies as having evolved in certain spheres and devolved in others. we have more capacity to create 'things' and we have made an ideal of acceptance and sharing with others, to which some fully adhere, but we have lost our connection to nature.
science is seeming to realise that, in fact, everything is one and interconnected, but certain primitive peoples have known that, for centuries. the australian native society is said to be possibly 60,000 years old, in australia, and they believe in the interconnectedness of humans and the rest of creation.

[Afghanistan2010]

Mutazilah are wrongly guided from the day the beloved Hassan al Basri (rah) named them so.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Mutazilah are wrongly guided from the day the beloved Hassan al Basri (rah) named them so.

then why is Mu'tazilah so logical and intellectually stronger than your Taliban doctrine?

[Afghanistan2010]

Stronger in what....your aqida is flawed sorry to say.

Taliban doctrine ? the amir should order the soldiers to do what our forefathers did to muttzeals.

[Tjanaparh]

Stronger in what....your aqida is flawed sorry to say.

Taliban doctrine ? the amir should order the soldiers to do what our forefathers did to muttzeals.

So what is what should be ordered? And who is the amir?

[Afghanistan2010]

Our forefathers refuted Mutazilahs,those who rebeled ended as dog fodder.