The Mu'tazilah, Founders of the Islamic Golden Age

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

I don't even know who that is do you mean Prophet Ya'qoub (a.s.)?

No, I meant this Yakub.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_(Nation_of_Islam)

[randolph85]

No, I meant this Yakub.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_(Nation_of_Islam)

lol out of all the racial nationalist movements, i find afrocentrism the most hilarious.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Dont around the question. Do you belief in Quran being the the message from god to humanity, or do you belief in science, a hypothesis?

By your answer you don't belief in the Quran.

I'm not I am using the Socratic method , No YOUR INTERPRETATION says that, not my answer. :whatever God reveals; has to be in harmony with each other so the Qur'an must be in harmony with what we see in nature, if the Qur'an is from Allah(swt). Everything is a hypothesis if we don't have full evidence for it.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

No, I meant this Yakub.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakub_(Nation_of_Islam)

oh then no.

[کیش]

I know the Socrates way of debating. When you can't answer a question how it was asked, you abscond by using the question and making it a question for the original questionnaire.

I said do you belief in the words in Quran. But you said you belief in "the evidence of nature," which isn't actually evidence but a hypothesis. You are also looking for the meanings of the words (allegorical, perhaps even all), but do not believe it as it is written.

[khushal]

It answers your question of why they couldn't prevent them. That is a real roadblock; just because you can't cope with the answer, just says you're biased and looking for an answer that suits your agenda.

You don't have to be "smart" to get guns, even Americans can get guns and the Taliban couldnt stop them from invading a Muslim despite being kufar does that mean Kufr is better than Islam? Not at all, similarly Your argument demonstrates nothing against Logic and Reason.

First I have no agenda
Second, For the sake of argument, we all agree the Taliban are dimwits, that is why they couldnt prevent America from invading, but you guys are all over the place and on a different level and should have prevented the Taliban from taking power and also prevented America from invading. Where were you guys when the afghan civil war was going in from 92-96 when the afghans were begging for a miricle, and also you were absent during the soviet invasion.

but Ill put all that aside because you cant answer the questions being asked.
Thire are variables needed for reason and logic to flourish. Those variables dont currently exist in the middle east. First the US occupation is the obsticle for reason and logic to flourish in afghanistan. First you need security and from their society will evolve. you must understand the afghan psyche. they will refuse any orders from an outsider, and if the outsider wants to succeed in afghanistan, they need to do what the brits did with nader shah. he was successful because he used afghans to take kabul. Karzai and the NA would have been successful if they toppled the taliban themselves instead of calling on foreign forces to bomb their fellow countrymen. That strategy didnt work with the brits during the afghan invasions, it did not work during the soviet invasion, and it is not working with the american invasion. doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a differnt result is insane.

The chinese are rising, not because the mutazalah are making it so, they are rising because they accomplished the first variable, and that was to bring security to the people and from their the society evolved and its evolving into a super power. Watch them and learn.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I know the Socrates way of debating. When you can't answer a question how it was asked, you abscond by using the question and making it a question for the original questionnaire.

I said do you belief in the words in Quran. But you said you belief in "the evidence of nature," which isn't actually evidence but a hypothesis. You are also looking for the meanings of the words (allegorical, perhaps even all), but do not believe it as it is written.

well the socratic method asks a question which answers the question asked.


YOU SAY it's a hypothesis; but it is actually evidence; because it shows that pattern for evolution.

If God made the Qur'an and Nature and they're supposed to be in harmony with each other, how the Qur'an is actually written would have to be allegorical.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

lol out of all the racial nationalist movements, i find afrocentrism the most hilarious.

Besides the shirk and labelling all Whites as literal devils, I like them.

Not to mention the fact that their founder who they call "Allah" (astaghfurullah) was a Zabuli.

The Nation of Islam had a special purpose; to cleanse Afro-Americans and make them ready for real Islam. I also like some of the Nation of Gods and Earths' teachings.

I agree with many of their principles and concepts.

[کیش]

well the socratic method asks a question which answers the question asked.


YOU SAY it's a hypothesis; but it is actually evidence; because it shows that pattern for evolution.

If God made the Qur'an and Nature and they're supposed to be in harmony with each other, how the Qur'an is actually written would have to be allegorical.

3:7

Pickthall: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

I believe, the whole is from our lord. God would have mentioned the evolutionary process but the lord didn't mention such things.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

First I have no agenda
Second, For the sake of argument, we all agree the Taliban are dimwits, that is why they couldnt prevent America from invading, but you guys are all over the place and on a different level and should have prevented the Taliban from taking power and also prevented America from invading. Where were you guys when the afghan civil war was going in from 92-96 when the afghans were begging for a miricle, and also you were absent during the soviet invasion.

But you don't get my point? Taliban according to you represents Islam right? So if they represent Islam, the same way you're questioning me, why we couldn't prevent the Taliban, would apply to the Taliban The ability to prevent or not prevent something doesn't have to do with how correct or fruitful your idea is, but force you use. Just like America defeating the Taliban and invading, doesn't make Islam wrong, anymore than Taliban forcing people into silence.

First you need security and from their society will evolve. you must understand the afghan psyche. they will refuse any orders from an outsider, and if the outsider wants to succeed in afghanista

That's not entirely true; Taliban were taking orders from Pakistan. and people were taking orders from Taliban because they had weapons and could threaten people. They're torture and butcher people. See this is why I say you have an agenda, not as a scapegoat; but because you want tto push a narrative which isn't necessarily the case, and is also factually and logically false. The fact the Taliban used forced on the people to get their way, demonstrate they weren't wanted, and more over when the Taliban were no longer capable of using the same degree of force, what happened? The People in Pashtun areas rose up and pushed them out. In all cases your case has been nullified.

So the answer I gave you was a legit answer; without weapons, Mutazilah can't prevent the Taliban, but that won't always be the case. Because now we're uprising in afghanistan, the Ghaznichi uprising is really a Mutazilah uprising, yeah they may not fully even understand what Mutazilah is; but the same Spirit to LEARN and grow will lead them to the principles of Mutazilah; same with The Ikhwan take over, the Ikhwan were inspired by Sayyid Jamaluddiln Al Afghani who was a rationalist, more and more they're reclaiming their heritage, once they get weapons, maybe even eventually we'll have EGyptian Ikhwan in Afghanistan reminding us of the true heritage we have with Sayyid Jamaluddin Al Afghani.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

3:7

Pickthall: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

I believe, the whole is from our lord. God would have mentioned the evolutionary process but the lord didn't mention such things.

No you believe what you were TAUGHT to think of the Qur'an; not the Qur'an itself.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

No you believe what you were TAUGHT to think of the Qur'an; not the Qur'an itself.

I also feel that way about many people but we can't generalize.

Kais is quite smart.

[randolph85]

Besides the shirk and labelling all Whites as literal devils, I like them.

Not to mention the fact that their founder who they call "Allah" (astaghfurullah) was a Zabuli.

The Nation of Islam had a special purpose; to cleanse Afro-Americans and make them ready for real Islam. I also like some of the Nation of Gods and Earths' teachings.

I agree with many of their principles and concepts.

well the shirk basically makes them kaffirs of the worst kind. not only that, but i don't see them changing the condition of african americans in any meaningful way whatsoever. at least true kaffirs with no islamic knowledge are truely ignorant of the truth, while these clowns have access to the quran but disregard it and then spew black nationalism bull**** while peppering it with arabic/islamic words.

malcolm saw the light but that didn't last for very long.

[کیش]

No you believe what you were TAUGHT to think of the Qur'an; not the Qur'an itself.

That doesn't even make sense.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

well the shirk basically makes them kaffirs of the worst kind. not only that, but i don't see them changing the condition of african americans in any meaningful way whatsoever. at least true kaffirs with no islamic knowledge are truely ignorant of the truth, while these clowns have access to the quran but disregard it and then spew black nationalism bull**** while peppering it with arabic/islamic words.

malcolm saw the light but that didn't last for very long.

NOI cleaned them physically.

It taught them not to eat swine, drink, gamble, etc.

It gave them a taste of their ancient culture.

It helped restore order in the community.

Minister Farrakhan stopped beef between rappers.

They have a cool flag.

You are right though.