Who are more dangerous

[RevolutionThroughReason]

you are not hotak

you have made yourself believe things which are not true and you exclusively believe in lies.

You're some welfare recipient from Pakistan, what right do you hve to tell me which tribe I am from or not from? You know nothing about Hotakan or Ghazni, speak about only your slums in Lahore please.

[faye]

so, goe, the christians supporting the israelis and the isrealis, saudis and americans joining together against iran, has nix to do with religion?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

this is exactly what i mean.
you are truly out of touch with reality.

im not welfare recipent
not from pakistan
got nothing to d with lahore.

you are not hotak or from Afghanistan,you are a yemeni american follower of a deviant sect called MUTAzillah.

have you ever been to Ghazni or met Pashtuns and talked to them in this fashion?

Ghazni isn't in Pakistan welfare leech; I have relatives in Ghazni, I speak to them regularly. My dad was born there. You were born in some slum in the UK with the rest of the Pakistanis

the reason you accuse me of not being Afghan, is because you're a Pakistani and want to bring me down with you.

[faye]

would the pashtuns in ghazni call for the moderators too?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Shadow, English is your mother tongue. your country Pakistan was created by them

[RevolutionThroughReason]

no it is not
pakistan is not my country

you should try to tell the truth as much as you can.
the more you lie,the worse your condition will get.

so where were you born? philly?

You were born in Bradford

[RevolutionThroughReason]

the whole internet is littered with information about your People in Britain Shadowgoverner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pakistanis

British Pakistanis (Urdu: برطانوی پاکستانی; also known as Pakistani British people or Pakistani Britons) are British citizens whose ancestral roots lie in Pakistan. This includes people who were born in the United Kingdom and are of Pakistani descent, and Pakistani-born people who have migrated to the country. The majority of British Pakistanis are from the Punjab and Kashmir regions, with a smaller number from the Pashtun regions (mainly Khyber Pakhtunkhwa) and other parts of the country.

[Dota]

I assume by secular extremists you are referring to Secular Muslim extremists? If so, I find them both to be equally reprehensible. The religious extremists like the wahabis are rotten for obvious reasons, their puritanical attitudes stifles intellectual and creative energies. Secular Muslims extremists are rotten because they are just as ideologically motivated as the wahabis and try so very hard to fit Islam into a liberal mold. In doing so they tend to perform a hatchet job on the religion until what's left barely resembles the original article. Many of these secular muslim extremists (Tarek Fatah, Asra Nomani ect) work tirelessly against the interests of the muslim communities they supposedly speak for. Many of them are in the business because Islam bashing has evolved into a cottage industry in the west.

My biggest concern with these people is that they also undermine genuine feminist interests in the third world. By needlessly bashing Islam, they tarnish the reputation of genuine Muslim equity feminists via guilt by association. Idiots like Taslima Nasreen are actually hurting the plight of third world women by having their societies associate equity feminism with the likes of her.

Having said all of this I must clarify my position further by stating that I am not against secularism since I'm pretty liberal myself. I am against extremism, on either side of the political spectrum.

[Friend]

Religious extremism if exists somewhere is actually the product or reaction to the secularism. Secularism has been ruling the world as a whole for the last few centuries.
Religion and religious people have been pressed and dominated through their secular laws and powers. If you say Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim country is enjoying religious freedom and power so it is not true. The rulers are the slaves of colonialism and they are enjoying the power and good relations with the so called super power which is temporary.
In a religious country especially Islamic one, the super power is the God so no one has the ultimate authority and no one has exemption from any type of law for example in many countries the presidents and many other authoritarian and army generals have got immunity in civil and criminal cases and they have the right to forgive anyone he or she wishes or cancel the punishment for anyone but in Islam it is not the case, every citizen of the country is bound by the laws of the land and accountable to the nation whether he is president, prime minister or army general and we have seen this during the time of Caliph Umar R.A when he was brought to the court and brought in front of the Chief Justice of the time. Hazrat Umar R.A never cancelled the punishment for anyone even for their own children but gave orders to punish his son.
This is the beauty of the Islamic state where a beggar and the king stand in one line where the ruler claims to be responsible for every citizen even every animal living on the land and he proves it.
So religion Islam is the only solution to the problems of the human beings and peace can only prevail if an Islamic state is established and the Islamic laws are implemented properly and the state is supported and encouraged and give it time so that it could stand on its own feet.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Not true , like for example Wahhabiyah started because they wanted to control the way people practiced their religion, and then they revolted against the Ottoman Khilafah which was an Islamic State, so secularism cannot be the cause here. It's actually because of power , misabusing religion and wanting to impose a rigid interpretation of religion which motivated extremism.

It is easy to say "oh Saudis are not religious" but Saudis are the teachers of the Taliban, are the Taliban religious? Taliban are students of the Saudi ideology, so if Saudis are not religious than how can the Taliban be?

Therefore it is JUST AN EXCUSE that religion extremism is a reaction to secularism; it actually a reaction to people refusing to let Religious extremists control their lives.

If religious extremists were sincere and they just accepted ONLY God's rule; then they would let God do his job instead of trying to do God's job.

[Friend]

If religious extremists were sincere and they just accepted ONLY God's rule; then they would let God do his job instead of trying to do God's job.

Your school of thought is totally different and unaccepted to the 95% of Muslims in the world. You don't believe in an Islamic state and the Islamic laws.
No one can do God's job. God ordered us to implement the Islamic laws on the land so it is our prime duty to do so but unfortunately you don't believe in that so there is something wrong in your skull. mutazillah is a sect who has lost the right path.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This means you think you're God ....and that it's your job to rule people; And you call Mu'tazilah lost; you, doing shirk and equating yourself with Allah(swt). Na'dhubillah!!!!

It is your religious extremists who ended the Islamic State of the Ottomans, remember?

[Khostai]

Secualr extremism is the reaction to the the religious extremism and not the other way around.
And true secularims is only the product of the 20th century before that religious laws were dominant and in many western countrys you had laws that if you insulted God you can get a punishment. In UK you had up till 2008 a blasphamy law, so I don't know what kind of garbage are you telling here.
So don't tell lies here we are not so dum like you Friend.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Friend never checks his facts, he thinks he can make stuff up out of the air without any proof behind it

[Friend]

Secualr extremism is the reaction to the the religious extremism and not the other way around.
And true secularims is only the product of the 20th century before that religious laws were dominant and in many western countrys you had laws that if you insulted God you can get a punishment. In UK you had up till 2008 a blasphamy law, so I don't know what kind of garbage are you telling here.
So don't tell lies here we are not so dum like you Friend.

Khostai, though you are an atheist so we can understand your anger and enmity with Islam and other religions. But I wonder about the other guy Mr. Login and reason how can he deny the word of God ?