The Israeli Sufi

[faye]

ok then. i believe you

[Badlun]

Here is a very famous quote by Rumi

"abandon life and the world, and find the life of the world"

So trust me , he was very much against everything you represent; All Authentic Sufis are.

I dont know how are the Persian words of this quote but if we take the translation then its a figurative language emphasizing not just world and life but one has to reach to the life of the world(soul, essence, reality). This couplet does not reject the world or life but asking for not taking the things on superficial level but one has to go to the depth and explore the profound aspects of existence not just the menial, mundane and basic elements.

I agree he may teach full indulgence for the subsequent transcendence which is a perfect balance between the material and spiritual. Its a sublime equilibrium between celestial and earthly. This is totality as only materialism or only spiritualism both are extremes.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

well metaphorically what it means to really get to the real truth you have to let go of the worldly concerns But Osho, you're worried about politics; secularism and all things which are worldly.

how can that be compatible with sufism when we see the Sufis taught exactly the opposite? They didnt even care about Nationalism; to them this is all artificial. He is not teaching "balancing" worldly life; he says abandon worldly life, abandon cannot mean anything else but abandon.

If he was saying balance the spiritual with the material the he would just be a regular Mullah, because that's what Shari'ah Law teches That Qur'an has to be in politics to balance the spiritual ideas must balance the worldly ones.You have to really read Rumi and not just follow along the trend because academic people talk about Rumi; He really does say the opposite of your ideas.


All things Modernizzation, Liberalism, Politics, secularism, Nationalism= Anti Sufi. For someone to be a real Sufi they must be more like this



Just living a simple life

[badmash_khel]

^
But Rumi was married, had children, had a job (jurist, theologen). I don't call that abondoning worldly life. The greatest Sufi of all Ibn-Arabi was also a teacher, had job, married and had children.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

^
But Rumi was married, had children, had a job (jurist, theologen). I don't call that abondoning worldly life. The greatest Sufi of all Ibn-Arabi was also a teacher, had job, married and had children.

that was before he became Sufi.

and same with Ibn 'Arabi

[faye]

abandoning the material is not to do with the material. one can live simply but still have emotional and mental attachments.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Sufism from Mawlana's school isn't against emotional and mental attachments, it's just about those attachments which are distractions from focusing on spiritual life, and that's in the form of worldly concerns

[RevolutionThroughReason]

lol
these are lazy graveworshippers.

Then why are they so respected in Kunarh?

[badmash_khel]

that was before he became Sufi.

and same with Ibn 'Arabi

not really, Ibn Arabi taught almost till he died and wrote books. He was not some obscure figure wandering the streets.

There is no such thing as becoming Sufi. Sufism is just the spiritual side of Islam. Sharia and Sufism, what shias call Irfan are two sides of the same coin. Every muslim should practice tasawuf and follow the sharia ideally.

Other so called Sufi figures such as Abdul Qadir jilani and Al Ghazzali were also didn't abandon life totally. Its totally against Islam to cut ties with family members or beg for food when you are healthy and can work.

If we are to judge so called sufis then look at their central figures and not some obscure malangs (wanderers).

[faye]

personal experience...

[RevolutionThroughReason]

lol
you would know about kunar

are you saying there are no shrines in Kunar that people visit?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

not really, Ibn Arabi taught almost till he died and wrote books. He was not some obscure figure wandering the streets.

There is no such thing as becoming Sufi. Sufism is just the spiritual side of Islam. Sharia and Sufism, what shias call Irfan are two sides of the same coin. Every muslim should practice tasawuf and follow the sharia ideally.

Other so called Sufi figures such as Abdul Qadir jilani and Al Ghazzali were also didn't abandon life totally. Its totally against Islam to cut ties with family members or beg for food when you are healthy and can work.

If we are to judge so called sufis then look at their central figures and not some obscure malangs (wanderers).

well Qadiriyah and Naqhsbandiyah and Shadhiliyah, are ma'aqal Sufis, where as Mawlana is Musakkar

We're talking about Rumi; he did become an ascetic

Ibn 'Arabi is not the same as Mawlana though

[faye]

proof.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

no
Alhamdulilah people in Kunar dont ask from graves or "saints".
go start googling now.
btw we do have a small amount of salafis though

are you Sure about that, ever heard of a man named Sultan Baba?

[badmash_khel]

well Qadiriyah and Naqhsbandiyah and Shadhiliyah, are ma'aqal Sufis, where as Mawlana is Musakkar

We're talking about Rumi; he did become an ascetic

Ibn 'Arabi is not the same as Mawlana though

I don't know about ma'aqal and musakkar sufis. The mevlevi order does seem quite dodgy though.

The main reason for the Rumi's migration towards Turkey was the threat of mongol invasion. He didn't suddenly abndon life. Unlike modern so called sufis who hang around the graves of so called saints and smoking joints all day, Rumi was a pious muslim who was married, had children, had a proper job as a jurist and theologen and was well versed in Quran and Sunnah.



@shadowgoverner: Saritoob zda ka. Te de Rumi de khpo khira hum ne ye.
sharmegi na dasi spetseli musulmanano pesai spekai khabary kai? toba obasa.