what is the difference between Wahabi muslims and Suni?

[emkhan]

feel free to do your attan dame

OMG! You call her dama ? she is not. she has got great tendency towards shias

[Nora]

OMG! You call her dama ? she is not. she has got great tendency towards shias

she is shia so obviously she would and i speak to her in her langauge

[emkhan]

she is shia so obviously she would and i speak to her in her langauge

most of shia are not damaan but most of damaan are shia. she is good girl with rotten brain at one side

[IamDZJ]

Natkai how does it feel when your best friend goes up to the "dama" to complain about how stupid, immature and unworthy of a serious conversation you are??
O right, in order to realize that, you have to have a brain which you don't.
Hahahahahaha

[Afghanistan2010]

How is Tasawwuf taught in Wahhabi schools? Which of the great Sufis do they follow? Which of the great Sufi texts do they use? Name specific schools and scholars and texts.

Since you refer to "modern day sufis," can you refer to a single teaching of a "modern day" Sufi scholar that is not found in the teachings of the classical Sufi scholars? "Modern day Sufis" is a smokescreen used by some to hide what is in essence an antagonism to Sufism. The practices they refer to as "modern day" are in fact traditional.

My brother listen,

the head of the Sufism to me is Naqashabandi ....sufi says they restrain themselves from violence,there is a group among the iraq resistance,it is called al jaish al rijal al naqashbandi,which is very contrary to the beliefs of the common sufis (may Allah guide them),to me this violent group in iraq is a far better follower of the ancient sufism than these fakes who have pirs who they think will bring them closer to Allah and prostray themselves infront of their graves,if i could i would have myself lowered these graves with my hands,i have many relatives in the islamic state of afghanistan and in pakistan ,oneday we went with one of them to show us
the city,

we went to a old and ancient shrine,and there were many people prostraying infront of a grave,they all walked at the side and prostrayed and kissed and many things.

so if this you want to me believe in is islam i reject this but Alhamdulillah we have guidance in the quran and sunnah and with the great scholars who are like stars marked in the history.

Tasawuf and Tawassul are two things greatly explained by the rightly guided Scholars like ibn Taymiyaah , Mufti Taqi Usman and others,

the scholars said : you can make Tawassul and Tasaawuf (seeking the closeness of Allah by certain means) by your good deeds as it was mentioned in a large hadith in Riyadus Salahin regarding the three persons trapped in a cave by a stone which stopped them from going out and they prayed (made tawasul by their good deeds) so Allah opend for them the opening of the cave.


Mufti Taqi Usmani - Tasawwuf - YouTube

and Allah knows best.

But these modern sufis misinterpretated it they seek the closeness of Allah by these saints and others who are mostly fake saints,as we have witnessed in Swat when the soldiers of Islam attacked one and destroyed its campaign and hanged hin from a pole...in mingora.

As for example the sufis says Rumi (rah) was a great scholar and he was like them but its the contrary Rumi (rah) was a great scholar but they follow not but their own desires.

And modern day sufis are allied with the raafidah shia ( the rejectionists) who fights Allah and his Messenger (pbuh) by all means and if the two holy cities were not protected by Allah i swear by Allah they will try to capture them.

[Afghanistan2010]

are you wahabi?

Wahabi translated from arabic means someone who feeds others....

It is a wrong term,there are extrem elements among the ahlus sunnah who reffer to themselves other names beside muslim.


Wajjahtu wajhiya lillathee fataras-samaawaati wal'ardha haneefan wa maa 'anaa minal-mushrikeen, 'inna salaatee, wa nusukee, wa mahyaaya, wa mamaatee lillahi Rabbil-'aalameen, laa shareeka lahu wa bithaalika 'umirtu wa 'anaa awal al-muslimeen.

I have set my face towards the Originator of the heavens and the earth sincerely [in Islam] and I am not among the Mushrikeen. Indeed my prayer, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allaah, the Lord of the Worlds: no partner has He. With this I have been commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims (those who submit to Him).

[Afghanistan2010]

Natkai how does it feel when your best friend goes up to the "dama" to complain about how stupid, immature and unworthy of a serious conversation you are??
O right, in order to realize that, you have to have a brain which you don't.
Hahahahahaha

problems with your attention ? oldwoman.

[graveyardofempires]

In sufis i only respect the Naqshbandi
qaderi etc are bunch of bigmouthed graveworshippers.

[Nora]

do you guys watch some chennel 801 on sky, they wear green big turbans and someone said they are called ahmadies and said dont watch it. :S

[graveyardofempires]

do you guys watch some chennel 801 on sky, they wear green big turbans and someone said they are called ahmadies and said dont watch it. :S

they are not ahmadis,i think they are sufis.

[Mujib]

The people you are talking about are all dead now.

The salafis I know always refer to what the pious predecessors did (the companions of the prophet and the 3 first generations of muslims).

Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his followers also claimed to follow the pious predecessors. Those claims were behind their takfir and war against Muslims.

Can you refer to a single Wahhabi/"Salafi" scholar who condemns the takfir and violence of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his followers against the Muslims of their lands?

But current salafis have nothing to do with this and are not accountable for what other people did.

Nothing to do with this? Brother, one must cite something to substantiate it if one is going to make such strange claims. Wahhabism/Salafism today is no different from Wahhabism/Salafism in the time of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab. Its foundations are the teachings of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his followers.

You should read the fatwas of modern-day Wahhabi/"Salafi" scholars that defend the rebellion of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab's followers and their war against the Muslims.

That is like me saying : there is no Sufi brigade fighting against the invaders in Afghanistan.

Except you'd be outright wrong. Sufis have played a major role in every jihad in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

This is a great accusation you are making here.

Do you have an example ?

Show me a fatwa from a salafi scholar where the murder of muslims is ordened.

Are you serious? We had a member on this very forum (a proponent of "Salafism") attempt to justify the blowing up of a masjid in Pakistan. Do the extremists who blow up masjids, who kill scholars and then suicide bomb the janaza (as they did in Afghanistan), do they not have fatwas that drive them to kill?

I don't agree with their 'aqeedah either.

The explanations they give about the attributes of Allah SWT are not clear but I don't think this is enough to say they liken Allah SWT to the creation.

Shall we cite their own words likening Allah Most High to the creation?

Are you ready to declare, here, that they liken Allah SWT to the creation and therefore that they are mushriks kafirs ?

No - takfir is their trademark. Their anthropomorphism is, according to the `ulama of the Ahl al-Sunna, deviation and puts them outside Sunnism, but they cannot be declared kafirs.

And you declare major kufr to be mere sins.

This might work as some sort of wordplay, but it is meaningless. Read what the `Aqida Tahawiyya lays down as correct belief regarding major sins and what brings one out of Islam.

And you promote it. Why would you be more right than them ?

Tawassul is permissible and praiseworthy according to the vast majority of scholars. It was taught by the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) in the hadith of the blind man.

We are more than 500 people (all my family im Morocco) to bear witness that I am a Saint and that I performed miracles such as flying and making a pink elephant appear in the sky.

Read the Tahawiyya and it will explain the Islamic creed on the miracles of the awliya.

You think that Ibn Baz and Al Albani are not qualified to perform ijtihad ?

No. Even their admirers don't claim that for them.

Opening up Sahih Bukhari and blindly following a hadith is not ijtihad.

So the companions of the prophet (pbuh) and the first 3 generations of pious predecessors who did not follow any madhab are worse than those who currently follow madhabs ?

This and the other issues you are bringing up are old and have been discussed at length here. Your statement is only a rephrasing of the typical false argument: why did the companions not follow a madhhab? Your statement is answered by the other statement that is concluded from your logic: So the classical scholars who followed, learned, and taught madhhabs are worse than the modern-day non-madhhabists?

As to the premise that the Companions and the Salafi did not follow qualified scholarship, it is false. The Companions had the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) among them. And after that they followed the scholars among them. And the Tabi`in followed the Companions and the scholars among them, and so on.

I dare you to go to your local university and show them a video with a sufi whipping his head back and forth and tell 'em this is

This is irrelevant. And saying "a science" is different from saying "Science." The latter is somethign specific while the former can refer to any "body of knowledge." '`Ilm' is often translated as 'science.'

[Afghanistan2010]

Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his followers also claimed to follow the pious predecessors. Those claims were behind their takfir and war against Muslims.

to destroy your claim in less than a min,
Muhammad ibn Abdul wahhab was learning from the madhabs of abu hanifa (rah) and imam ahmad bin hanbal (rah) and he was only against people who prostray and worship the graves of the saints.

Can you refer to a single Wahhabi/"Salafi" scholar who condemns the takfir and violence of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his followers against the Muslims of their lands?

which violence ?

Nothing to do with this? Brother, one must cite something to substantiate it if one is going to make such strange claims. Wahhabism/Salafism today is no different from Wahhabism/Salafism in the time of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab. Its foundations are the teachings of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab and his followers.

the neosalafists completely differ themselves from the "wahabi" how you call them from that time,because Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab was learing from madhab of Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) by his father, and the modern day salafis says ( some extrem elements) that they do not need any madhab they have quran and sunnah.

You should read the fatwas of modern-day Wahhabi/"Salafi" scholars that defend the rebellion of Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab's followers and their war against the Muslims.

because of the grave sins these people did , like visiting the graves of the saints and making their rituals that are not in harm nor in benefit for them.

Except you'd be outright wrong. Sufis have played a major role in every jihad in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

yes they made their pants full and ran away ?
there wasn't a single sufi in any jihad at all since islam come to light.

provide proofs.

Are you serious? We had a member on this very forum (a proponent of "Salafism") attempt to justify the blowing up of a masjid in Pakistan. Do the extremists who blow up masjids, who kill scholars and then suicide bomb the janaza (as they did in Afghanistan), do they not have fatwas that drive them to kill?

what if the masjid wasn't the actual target,but those members of the pakistani security forces,and other generals.

if in the janaza is kharzai and other members of parliament.

Shall we cite their own words likening Allah Most High to the creation?

what about the claim that the prophet is light and not human,
what the claim that the prophet (pbuh) was born before adam (pbuh) ?
what about the lie that adam (pbuh) seek tasawuf by prophet muhammad (pbuh) and Allah only forgive him for that....?

please explain verily they are doing nothing but evil.

No - takfir is their trademark. Their anthropomorphism is, according to the `ulama of the Ahl al-Sunna, deviation and puts them outside Sunnism, but they cannot be declared kafirs.

there are as extrem elements in the salafis as in the sufis who accuse eachother of being kaffir no doubt.

Tawassul is permissible and praiseworthy according to the vast majority of scholars. It was taught by the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) in the hadith of the blind man.

yes but the prophet (pbuh) was alive,someone can make dua for you,but you can't go to people who have passed away and seek their help while they themselves are in need of help....can you justify this by any hadith or quranic verse doing so.

Read the Tahawiyya and it will explain the Islamic creed on the miracles of the awliya.

we don't doubt the awliyah but how do you know someone is awliyah just because bunch of uneducated follow him and prostray themselves infront of him ?

[emkhan]

I have put forward some questions to Mujib but he is not able to answer my questions. He knows what I am talking about.

[sunni]

cant we start a debate again mujib?

[Mujib]

I have put forward some questions to Mujib but he is not able to answer my questions. He knows what I am talking about.

Which questions are you referring to, brother?

cant we start a debate again mujib?

Debates are a waste of time. Our goal in discussion should be to benefit others and ourselves.