Mu;tazillah

[randolph85]

errrr

u are both muslims, its simple. its differences like these on a grand scale that lead to foreigners being able to choose sides and cause trouble. keep it cool, calm and collective.

when u both die, allah will be the judge of u both.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Once again you're affirming your OWN premise as valid and thus making a circular conclusion. Just because you say the Mu'tazilah put reason above revelation doesn't make it automatically true. And even if you were to argue that Mu'tazillah interpreting revelation in context of reason as "evidence" this too would not verify your claim; because you're positing your belief as a conclusion, which is a false premise. Your argument is falsified on every angle through logical analysis

You demonstrate this same line of arguing here in fact; Your conclusion that Mu'tazilah deny the Qur'an because they understanding of the creation verses in context is based on the premise that your Belief regarding the implications of the verses are intrinsically valid. You're arguing from a position of unsubstantiated premises. It's simple set theory Belief or the Intellectual Affirmation of the Veracity of the Qur'an has subsets, the subsets affirm belief but differ in HOW they believe it. This falls under the grouping of belief.

Your argument fails by logic.

[Alchemist]

errrr

u are both muslims, its simple. its differences like these on a grand scale that lead to foreigners being able to choose sides and cause trouble. keep it cool, calm and collective.

when u both die, allah will be the judge of u both.

That has never been an issue bro...

Of course what we say wouldn't hold so much weight over our actual deeds.

Don't take this the wrong way. We are not here to say which one of us is going to heaven or hell.

This is about which "way" is right.

Whose compass do we follow? This ummah is lost already. We need to figure out our away out or we are doomed along the x-tians and the hindus and pagans and satanist. And what SissytartXedge is saying is misleading...he is trying to validate the very same "reasons" that have lead the christians astray. He is advocating for the same core ideals!

Look at how he is trying to abstract his way out of the blame that I put on him?

And honestly...

I enjoy making a fool out of him... :D ...what can I say...its my qareen

[Al Hanif]

That has never been an issue bro...

Of course what we say wouldn't hold so much weight over our actual deeds.

Don't take this the wrong way. We are not here to say which one of us is going to heaven or hell.

This is about which "way" is right.

Whose compass do we follow? This ummah is lost already. We need to figure out our away out or we are doomed along the x-tians and the hindus and pagans and satanist. And what SissytartXedge is saying is misleading...he is trying to validate the very same "reasons" that have lead the christians astray. He is advocating for the same core ideals!

Look at how he is trying to abstract his way out of the blame that I put on him?

And honestly...

I enjoy making a fool out of him... :D ...what can I say...its my qareen

there comes the sufi to tell you that your actual deeds wouldn't hold so much weight over the Rahma of Allah SWT

and that instead of arguing we should all pray for the salvation of humanity

you guys are crazy foos

I hope I do not end up like any you when I'll reach your age

[Alchemist]

Once again you're affirming your OWN premise as valid and thus making a circular conclusion. Just because you say the Mu'tazilah put reason above revelation doesn't make it automatically true.

This was stated in the book that you referenced in the start of this thread!

And even if you were to argue that Mu'tazillah interpreting revelation in context of reason as "evidence" this too would not verify your claim; because you're positing your belief as a conclusion, which is a false premise. Your argument is falsified on every angle through logical analysis

Your statement makes no coherent sense.

Seems like you are trying to fiend intelligence by writing abstractly.

I am saying that you start your argument by assuming that "Rationalism" is true. Rationalism, as the rationalism of Darwin's "Origin of Species". Which was originally written without any empirical evidence to substantiate his "observation". (Evidence which is still lacking).
You have stated several times already that you filter the Qur'an by your limited knowledge of the natural sciences.

This is true. And you can't deny it.

You demonstrate this same line of arguing here in fact; Your conclusion that Mu'tazilah deny the Qur'an because they understanding of the creation verses in context is based on the premise that your Belief regarding the implications of the verses are intrinsically valid. You're arguing from a position of unsubstantiated premises. It's simple set theory Belief or the Intellectual Affirmation of the Veracity of the Qur'an has subsets, the subsets affirm belief but differ in HOW they believe it. This falls under the grouping of belief.

Your argument fails by logic.

Syntax error:

Mu'tazila deny the Qur'an because they understanding of the creation verses in context is based on the premise that your Belief regarding the implications of the verses are intrinsically valid.

I never said that "Mu'tazila deny the Qur'an.

I said you deny miracles stated in the Qur'an.

Please write legibly.

What does "they understanding of the creation verses in context is based on the premise that your belief regarding the..."

Renowned Mu'tazila scholars lived before Darwin introduced the concept of "natural Selection" as a mechanism of "Speciation". Therefore they have had no opinion on that matter.

Secondly, it is not "my belief" that is in question. Mu'tazali and other Muslim Scholars of differing Scholars (Asharia, Hanbali, Qadri etc) did not differ on the interpretations of "creation versus". Your interpretations are actually foreign to them. So this statement makes no sense at all.

Also, please list what subsets of beliefs you are referring to. Make your arguments clear and concise. We can't read minds...and especially the mind of a mad man.

Take your time. No need to get frazzled.

[Alchemist]

there comes the sufi to tell you that your actual deeds wouldn't hold so much weight over the Rahma of Allah SWT

and that instead of arguing we should all pray for the salvation of humanity

you guys are crazy foos

I hope I do not end up like any you when I'll reach your age

Why don't you just leave the forum if that's the case?

Why are you here then?

Contradiction?

[ScimitarXEdge]

.

I enjoy making a fool out of him... :D ...what can I say...its my qareen

yeah you being an irrational knitwit, constantly being exposed as a knitwit really makes a fool out of me; really harsh there ladyboy your genius spellbounds me. (sarcasm)

[Alchemist]

Excellent rebuttal son.

Keep it up.

This is all your good at anyway

[ScimitarXEdge]

That's not a rebuttal knitwit; you don't rebuttal a falsely inflated commentary.

gosh you are a full on idiot.

[Alchemist]

I don't know why you are getting so frustrated.

Just answer a simple question and we're cool...

Do you believe the aya in the Qur'an wherein it is stated that Isa ibn Maryam transformed clay models into living birds by the will of Allah?


yes or no?

[ScimitarXEdge]

I'm not frustrated, that's just your childhood trauma episodes of child abuse flash backs coming up.

Your question is Not relevant to the thread. Don't derail topics

[Alchemist]

It is relevant.

You claim to be Mu'tazali.

And the Question has to do with YOUR creed.

And if your creed matches that of the Mu'tazali then your answer should match too!

The fact that you keep avoiding The Question goes to show that you are afraid of getting exposed as a fraud.

You have a severe psychological issue. And I believe this contradiction that you try to harbour in your weak mind is the true cause of your frustration.

Now answer the question...or explain how it is not relevant?

Be a man.

[ScimitarXEdge]

well then please refer to Tafsir Al Kashshaf of the great Mu'tazilah scholar Zamahshari for the details of the Mu'tazilah position.

[Alchemist]

Why?

You don't know it your self?

how can you say that you are Mu'tazali and unable to state it your self?

Is it because their statement is not your own?

You are skirting son.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I do , that's how I was able to referr you to it. I can't do all your homework for you, Miss mentally challenged charity case.