Preaching Christianity should be stopped in Afghanistan.

[ozymandias]

Ozymandias
why are you against it when Afghanistan constitution says no to Christians?

The fact that it violates basic human rights is the big reason. Constitutions do not have the right to trump human rights. The role of a constitution should be to protect human rights -- not violate them.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

I have yet to see this in the constitution. I have looked for it. It does not exist.

ps

Could someone please post it, if they have seen it and can post its exact reference. Thank you.

[ozymandias]

^But its currently part of it so what do you have to say about that Ozy?

If this is true, then this constitution violates basic human rights, rather than protects them, and people should be allowed to exercise their rights in violation of this constitution if they so choose -- and the UN should step in and protect them when they do so.

[akbarkhan]

People,

Don't allow others to tell you what is right and what is wrong when they are themselves neck deep in violation of human rights.

Their aim is to distract you, if that was not the case then surely they would address their own human rights violations first before preaching human rights to you! This is spin doctoring at its best, don't fall for it!

[Azmatullah]

Why don't they ever make a big deal about their own war crimes and human rights violations? I do wonder.

[ozymandias]

People,

Don't allow others to tell you what is right and what is wrong when they are themselves neck deep in violation of human rights.

Their aim is to distract you, if that was not the case then surely they would address their own human rights violations first before preaching human rights to you! This is spin doctoring at its best, don't fall for it!

I must say, 'Bravo!' I have never seen so many logical fallacies crammed into such a short post before!

Too bad every single claim of your has been refuted repeatedly.

[ozymandias]

Why don't they ever make a big deal about their own war crimes and human rights violations? I do wonder.

We do. It just does not fit into your preconceived biases and to admit that would take all the wind out of your claims, so you choose to ignore that.

[akbarkhan]

Too bad every single claim of your has been refuted repeatedly.

Youngin, you don't have the capacity to refute anything. You don't even know your own history let alone anything about world history or international relations for that matter.

So please your adolescent soul on random virtual forums while I get things done in the real world.

[ozymandias]

MWMN,
every news source says so.
plus that's the reason they were suspended.

Are you saying you don't even know your own constitution? Besides, are you not doign the very thing so many of you erroneously attack the 'west' for?

[Shayesta]

Then you *MUST* admit that Islam is, by it's very nature a violation of basic human rights. Muslims have argued time and time again that Islam supports basic human rights, but clearly you are arguing that it does not.

I am not discussing about violation here, I am talking about rules in the Islam and in Islam these rules have been applied; Like rules in any other religion. Your human right or violation speech won't change these rules and facts.

You are ignoring that sometimes you need to violate the rights of a few, to protect the rights of the many.

So those over a million dead Iraqis in your eyes are counted as 'a few' while those three thousand Americans make up the list of 'many'? Right, human rights.......

No, you just support repressing their rights to disagree with Islam.

By 'their' you mean those Westerners? Then you are telling me those people have read the Quran-e-Sharif first for after which they decided to disagree with Islam? Interesting.

You support murder for people leaving Islam, or expressing an opinion of Islam you do not like.

I do not support any murder. If these Christian-converts can make sure they move to Western countries then fine and/or get Western support then fine, Westerners are 'buying' Christian-convert Muslims with a better future and a visa to West anyway. Otherwise whether I want it or not, some extremists will make sure murder happens and we all know towards whom it will happen. First Americans used neighbouring countries against Afghanistan regarding their aims, afterwards they will use Afghan Christians for their aim as it's USA anyway who will decide the Afghan power-holder; May it be a Christian.

You can choose to follow what ever religion you want. It's your human right.

Human right only consists wishes of the Westerners or? What about Palestinian human rights? What about Kashmiri human rights? What about those people's human rights who have been abused by Northern Alliance a.k.a. American puppies but nothing happens to them? These Americans and Western-favourers first should declare human rights to be equal in entire world and then lecture others about human rights.

What happened to Islam being the religion of peace? You are arguing again and again that Islam is a barbaric, uncivilized religion.

Yeah, civilized and un-barbaric is the millions of times edited bible where even 'gay rights' have been added, right? You should have seen how uncivilized and barbaric Arabs were before the Islam and majority of them turned into human beings only after Islam arrived.

Even soldiers have the rights to free speech.

Then why they shoot down every Afghan who badmouths them in Afghanistan? Why they shoot down every Iraqi who badmouths them in Iraq? Freedom of speech, right?

Besides, the prevalence of agnosticism and atheism is related to educational level, and not location.

I see; So Atheism equals intelligence?

[Roshina]

The christians should pay the Jizya and be subdued if they want to stay in the future Islamic Emirate, otherwise they should leave.

Hm... what about Muslims who live in non-Muslim countries? Are they required to pay a certain tax that the non-Muslims are NOT subject to?

If the Muslims refuse to pay a certain special tax to the non-Muslim army/government/community, then they, too, should leave -- just like the non-Muslims of a Muslim nation have to leave if they don't pay jizya, like you want them to. Right?

[شمله ور خراساني]

Hm... what about Muslims who live in non-Muslim countries? Are they required to pay a certain tax that the non-Muslims are NOT subject to?

If the Muslims refuse to pay a certain special tax to the non-Muslim army/government/community, then they, too, should leave -- just like the non-Muslims of a Muslim nation have to leave if they don't pay jizya, like you want them to. Right?

Aren't we paying taxes here?

See, Muslims are obliged to pay zakat to baitul mal so the money is used for re-distributive purposes by the islamic state just like people in Western europe pay taxes which are used for redistributive purposes.

Since non-Muslims do not have to pay zakat, they have to pay jizya.

But in non-Muslim countired everybody pays taxes. Only difference is, in Islam we differentiate between muslim and non muslim controbution to the society.

[Roshina]

It is not practical to wait until enemies leave then start educating people.

Very good point, Momina! I don't know what makes some of us think that just because we're poor and illiterate, we should kill those who are preaching other religions on our land to us! Seriously?

EDUCATE us; don't kill the "enemies"! And educate us no... why don't you? Why's everyone waiting for a tomorrow that they're not even promised? What if you die today, God forbid, and your dreams of educating your people never comes true? Who are you leaving your people to? Answer: to people of other religions who are actually spreading their beliefs in PEACE, not by bullying people!

[ozymandias]

I am not discussing about violation here, I am talking about rules in the Islam and in Islam these rules have been applied; Like rules in any other religion. Your human right or violation speech won't change these rules and facts.

It is a fact that this interpretation of Islam violates human rights. I am not arguing that you cannot interpret your religion how you want, I am pointing out that you don't have the right to force that interpretation on others.

So those over a million dead Iraqis in your eyes are counted as 'a few' while those three thousand Americans make up the list of 'many'? Right, human rights.......

Nope. I am comparing the dead to all the living whose rights were protected. A million Iraqis may have died, but if those rights they died for had not been defended, pretty much every one on the planet (and even those that are to be born still) would have their rights infringed.

By 'their' you mean those Westerners?

No, I mean all humans. All humans have the right to disagree with any religion and speak out against any religion -- just in some places these rights are infringed upon and people cannot safely exercise them.

Then you are telling me those people have read the Quran-e-Sharif first for after which they decided to disagree with Islam? Interesting.

Regardless of when or why they disagree, they have the right to disagree.

[/quote]

I do not support any murder.

[/quote]

If you defend the murders, you support the murder -- and saying that the converts are the ones doing wrong clearly defends the murderers.

If these Christian-converts can make sure they move to Western countries then fine and/or get Western support then fine, Westerners are 'buying' Christian-convert Muslims with a better future and a visa to West anyway. Otherwise whether I want it or not, some extremists will make sure murder happens and we all know towards whom it will happen. First Americans used neighbouring countries against Afghanistan regarding their aims, afterwards they will use Afghan Christians for their aim as it's USA anyway who will decide the Afghan power-holder; May it be a Christian.

The murders are the ones doing wrong. Period.

Human right only consists wishes of the Westerners or? What about Palestinian human rights? What about Kashmiri human rights?

Each person has this right, no matter where they live, or what they believe. They can choose not to exercise these rights, or not to defend these rights, but *NO ONE* has the right to take away the basic human rights by force.

There is no human right to force your will on others. Period.

What about those people's human rights who have been abused by Northern Alliance a.k.a. American puppies but nothing happens to them? These Americans and Western-favourers first should declare human rights to be equal in entire world and then lecture others about human rights.

That is exactly what has been done -- and now that the easy 'words' part is done, it is time for the hard 'action' part. The UN declared all humans have a basic group of rights -- but there are still pigs out there infringing on these rights, and force is needed to protect them.

Yeah, civilized and un-barbaric is the millions of times edited bible where even 'gay rights' have been added, right? You should have seen how uncivilized and barbaric Arabs were before the Islam and majority of them turned into human beings only after Islam arrived.

First of all 'gay rights' would be civilized. Second of all, we are not talking of Christianity, we are talking basic human rights, absent any and all religion.

Arabs may be better than they were, but you are still advocating the use of violence and force to steal the rights away from people. That is uncivilized.

Then why they shoot down every Afghan who badmouths them in Afghanistan? Why they shoot down every Iraqi who badmouths them in Iraq? Freedom of speech, right?

Show me a reliable source showing this happened, and we can discuss it. I am not interested in discussing your exaggerated fictitious accounts.

[/quote]

I see; So Atheism equals intelligence?[/QUOTE]

Not at all, but study after study has shown a correlation between intelligence and 'religiosity' that is *much* stronger than mere location.

[ozymandias]

Very good point, Momina! I don't know what makes some of us think that just because we're poor and illiterate, we should kill those who are preaching other religions on our land to us! Seriously?

EDUCATE us; don't kill the "enemies"! And educate us no... why don't you? Why's everyone waiting for a tomorrow that they're not even promised? What if you die today, God forbid, and your dreams of educating your people never comes true? Who are you leaving your people to? Answer: to people of other religions who are actually spreading their beliefs in PEACE, not by bullying people!

Education is really key. If your religion or way of life is so great, educate people about why it really is the better way, and you will have no need to fear other people preaching the 'inferior' way, nor will you to worry about murdering those that leave your way. People will choose to follow your path and stay on it because it is the better way.

To use force, to use fear, to violate human rights like this only shows that these people, deep down inside, know that their way cannot compete on a level playing field, and it goes to show that they fear the choices an educated and unfearful population will make.