PA's Shoutbox

[Alchemist]

This will never end at all.

Lets be logical here, what if Islam was wrong and Christianity was right?

Logically Christianity can't be right. The coming of a prophet after Jesus (pbuh) was foretold in their scripture.
Jesus (pbuh) never endorsed a trinitarian concept of Allah. It doesn't make sense to say that Jesus (pbuh) was a god when he would eat, sleep and feel pain and get hurt and die. And it doesn't make sense for God to have a child.
Most of the books of new testament were written much later then when they were revealed and there is discrepancy between the texts...so their truth cannot be ascertained.
Also, many of the rituals of the Catholics, the largest domination, such as baptisim, the eating of the flesh of jesus and drinking his bless (auzubillah) were borrowed from Mithraic mysteries. Thus Christianity cannot be a valid religion in comparison to Islam....logically.

Muslims would rise up and oppose it as false.

Now you know how the godless feel.

Nobody needs to follow a particular relgion to have meaning to their life. The reason why people are so adament on following a faith, is because its become custom due to culture.

Similarly it could be argued that you are an atheist due to culture and customes of your time.
As it follows with the history of christianity, when Nietzsche declared "God is dead" (auzubillah), the post modernists tried to cope with "godlessness" by replacing God with "Mankind" and so were the ideals of "humanism" born. And as can be evident, the 20th century of godlessness is a tragic failure...one devoid of any real progress, in terms of values. We no longer have "empires" but degrading societies and failing nations.

Mankind has lived without religion since the time the Jews decided to invent Judaism where it all started off.

False.

There is no proof of that.

Atheism is mainly an urban phenomena. It arises because people become disconnected from nature and start to believe that they are alone and the world is devoid of meaning and purpose. So they become "hallow men...stuffed men...filled with straws...their dried voices, when they speak are hallow and meaningless...".

In antiquity, most psychologists, anthropologists, ethnographers, and historians agree, that primal men had a religion, was spiritual. Believed that his life was with purpose, and interpreted signs and symbols in the heavens and on earth and in his daily life. The image of the Shaman sticks out... with rituals and communal ceremonies every stage of life is marked and celebrated.

Mankind has always adapted to survival, from the pre historic times to present.

Religion does provide one a purpose in life, but fails to acknowledge purposes that doesnt fit into their catagory of "How we should live".

False.

Atheism, lack of religion, fails to answer "How we should live".

Look at Nietzsche, as soon as he declared "god is dead", he set out to philosophically give purpose to life. But if you look at his own life, he failed to do that. He tried living in isolation, on high mountains and to "strive" ...but he became sick and lonely and turned mad and died.
No atheist philosopher ever could give an account on "How we should live". Not even the existentialists...who merely said .."we live and that is it". Satra took it further...he went on to say that you are actually delusional. You are free, but you can't cope with the truth that you are free, so must build your self a castle of lies and hide in it...and live a fake life, that isn't true to who you are...so most of you don't even know how to live! And it was true for him.

There is nothing wrong with having faith in a god however saying that your god will solve all your problems and make you moral is deluded.

No one said that it is the case.

But becoming conscious of God will make one more moral and with Character. When you are aware that your every action, every thought is known to ONE, then you exercise more caution and feel more responsible for all that you do and say. When you know you will be held accountable...heck if every politician we had felt that way... we'd live in a much better world! And you can't say that ain't true!

Like they say, guns dont kill people, people kill people, same with Religion, God does not kill people but people kill for God.

Killing? I ll dispel this myth of you atheists in a separate thread.

In my view, Religion should play no role in government and policy making. Religion should be limited to ones own belief, and not be regarded as the solution to all problems.

That can't happen. Religion is one's way of life. If you remove religion from "government and policy" you'd wish to replace one's religion (way of life) with another. That basically means you want to abolish religion. Which is one of the reasons why atheism flourishes under secular rule...and why secularism fails in regions where religion is a very important facet of people's lives.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be right, and even if there was a God out there, what makes you think he supports those Religions, when mankind himself, has spread his words?

True orthodox Jews and Christians agree on the fundamentals of Islam - they all worship One and the same God, Allah. In essence all these religions are phases of Islam. A portion was given to the Jews through various prophets (david, solomon, yousof, zakaria, jacob, etc, moses), then another portion to Christains (Jesus) (peace be upon them all). We don't make any distinction between the messengers of Allah.




A

lso, in regards to Afghanistan2010's comment about not having a meaningful life if you do not beleive in God. Well, can you explain to me, all the suicides that happen due to martial and economical problems, I am sure those who took their own lives beleived in a God too, but that did not stop them from ending a very meaningful life, meaningless life can be intrepretated in many ways, You do not need a GOD to have a meaningful life, preaching his word to register new followers does not mean your meaningful life applies to all.

Islam means "Submission to the Will of Allah".
That means one has to believe that every misfortune, or every fortune that befalls a man was decreed by Allah.
The person who truly believes in this is the one who accepts his fate. Those who exercise patience and hold true to their believes in the face of adversity are the ones who truly believe.
The ones that fall into despair and then jump off the bridge...they do not believe. Their actions is evidence of their lack of faith!

A meaningful life can be anything, from finding a cure for cancer to climbing mount everest. You do not need God to provide you a meaningful life.

There is no cure to cancer my friend. Diet and exercise can help you prevent cancer. But there are many ways in which a cancer comes about. Also cancer is a modern phenomena...it happens because of excess pollution, synthetic chemicals mixed in our ecologies as a result of industrialization and so forth.

Climbing mount everest?

Do you know why such practices are conducted in the first place? This goes to show that you are a parrot ..and a conformist. Because you parrot phrases without understanding what they are or how they came about.

This attitude of over coming obstacles and pushing one's self beyound their given natural limits is suppose to push you to a new state of "consciousness"...dubbed by our german philosopher, Nietzsche as...UberMensch - Superman. The idea that you as you are now are fickle, weak and not alive. You are a sheep. But by exerting your self against a challenge you will awaken the god within your self.

So you have a religious belief too, that you are a god your self. No different than those others who opposed the prophets - Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, or Abu Sufyan etc. Your arguments reek the same.

Many do ritualistic travel to Everst...like we muslims make the pilgrimage to Ka'aba. And many of them die too...so you see. Even doing those actions, you are again trying to find meaning in life through a myth...the difference between you and the hajjies is that they know what to expect...you don't even know why you are doing it. Most likely...escapism.

That was me being "logical".

Thanks

[Alchemist]

I disagree. I have actually seen papers, and been to several lectures that have provided sufficient evidence that belief is not a choice for me to believe anything else. I could no more choose to believe that belief is a choice, than I could choose to disbelieve gravity, basic chemistry, or electronic theory.

I have seen papers and been to several lectures that provide sufficient evidence that belief is a choice.
I could just as easily choose to believe that belief is a choice, as I could believe that gravity doesn't exist...because there is no scientific proof for "gravity". No gravitons (results still pending). Basic chemistry ... vague...electronic theory...vague.

[ozymandias]

I have seen papers and been to several lectures that provide sufficient evidence that belief is a choice.
I could just as easily choose to believe that belief is a choice, as I could believe that gravity doesn't exist...because there is no scientific proof for "gravity". No gravitons (results still pending). Basic chemistry ... vague...electronic theory...vague.

You are welcome to believe that. I *could* provide you with the evidence to point out your belief is wrong, but I don't see the point. You are not interested in an honest conversation, and would simply ignore any point that you disagree with, and resort to petty name calling. There is no reason for me to put forth the effort of correcting you, when your ignorance is a matter of choice.

[Alchemist]

You are welcome to believe that. I *could* provide you with the evidence to point out your belief is wrong, but I don't see the point. You are not interested in an honest conversation, and would simply ignore any point that you disagree with, and resort to petty name calling. There is no reason for me to put forth the effort of correcting you, when your ignorance is a matter of choice.

You may choose to believe that I am not interested.

That is your choice

[ozymandias]

You may choose to believe that I am not interested.

That is your choice

Once again, in the face of overwhelming evidence, I have no choice but to believe you are willfully ignorant, and have no interest in an honest conversation. Thank you for being such a great example of my point!

[Alchemist]

Once again, in the face of overwhelming evidence, I have no choice but to believe you are willfully ignorant, and have no interest in an honest conversation. Thank you for being such a great example of my point!

overwhelming evidence which only exists ...because you choose to believe it exists but otherwise doesn't.

Thank you for being such a great example of my point!

[Afghanistan2010]

This will never end at all.

Lets be logical here, what if Islam was wrong and Christianity was right?

Muslims would rise up and oppose it as false.

Now you know how the godless feel.

Nobody needs to follow a particular relgion to have meaning to their life. The reason why people are so adament on following a faith, is because its become custom due to culture.

Mankind has lived without religion since the time the Jews decided to invent Judaism where it all started off.

Mankind has always adapted to survival, from the pre historic times to present.

Religion does provide one a purpose in life, but fails to acknowledge purposes that doesnt fit into their catagory of "How we should live".

There is nothing wrong with having faith in a god however saying that your god will solve all your problems and make you moral is deluded.

Like they say, guns dont kill people, people kill people, same with Religion, God does not kill people but people kill for God.

In my view, Religion should play no role in government and policy making. Religion should be limited to ones own belief, and not be regarded as the solution to all problems.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be right, and even if there was a God out there, what makes you think he supports those Religions, when mankind himself, has spread his words?

Also, in regards to Afghanistan2010's comment about not having a meaningful life if you do not beleive in God. Well, can you explain to me, all the suicides that happen due to martial and economical problems, I am sure those who took their own lives beleived in a God too, but that did not stop them from ending a very meaningful life, meaningless life can be intrepretated in many ways, You do not need a GOD to have a meaningful life, preaching his word to register new followers does not mean your meaningful life applies to all.

A meaningful life can be anything, from finding a cure for cancer to climbing mount everest. You do not need God to provide you a meaningful life.

Are you kidding me,every muslim follows the teachings of jesus (peace and blessing upon him) because it was just updated by our prophet (peace be upon him) because jesus himself said : i have many things to say but i can not tell you know the spirit of truth will come and tell you and explain you everything and mention me,but every christian is following the teachings of pope and its failed church which is completely contrary to the teachings of jesus the son of mary (peace be upon him).

They have made fake stories and perverted stories in the Bible starting with Incest wa nauzubillah Lot (a.s) and his daughters,and they go so far to claim that Sarah the wife of Ibrahim (a.s) had relationship with Allah (the most high) wanauzubillah and if anyone really can argue with me from the christians he should please please contact me.I will awaite him to destroy him with his bible without using a single argument except from the bible that speaks against him.

[Afghanistan2010]

For the next time ask a christian :

you believe Jesus (pbuh) is god , he will reply yes.

And you ask him and God knows everything , he will reply yes.

Ask him did jesus know when the Judgement day is ?

he will says ooeooohoohoouuuuhuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?????????? i dont know ,

you : NO HE SAID , I DO NOT KNOW. :P

[Afghanistan2010]

To our friend Ozymandias ,

i wanted to come earlier but when i was standing infront of my house waiting for a Bus to come it took to long, i waited waited , then suddenly some tires appeared on the side of the road , and some nails and spare parts of other cars they were joining together i was astonished about that ,i realized that something supernatural was happening infront of myself,it turned out to be a bus or a car , but it came infront of me i entered it and drove to the next train station ,im shocked.

would you believe me ? but dont laugh at me.

[PakistaniAtheist]

You are asking questions such as "why is he making us go through this? and "why does he need to test us?" and so on. The thing is, you don't have a choice either way. You are created and you have to accept it. You have to accept the will of Allah (sw), thats why those who submit their will to Allah (sw) are called muslims.
The funny thing is that people never ask "Why we have to breath to live?" and "why we have to eat to live?. People just accept that fact that they have to eat to live and breath to live and don't have any other choice. But they are very reluctant to accept that they have a creator and to obey his rules. Atheists love to follow the laws of nature but as soon as a creator is mentioned, they have some form of allergic reaction to it. As if nature is seperate from creator.
The whole creation is the manifestation of the attributes of Allah (sw). for example one of his attributes is he is "Al-Ghaffaar", the forgiver. He forgives us when we don't submit to his will sometimes. Another is "the judge", he judges us according to our intentions and deeds and decides what we deserve thus showing his mercy, justice and other attributes. Everthing in existence both physical and non physical is related to his attributes.
Just like you have to accept the fact that you have to eat to survive, you have to also accept the fact that you are created. The sooner you accept this fact and figure a way how to do the right thing the better it will be for you. otherwise you will be just going against nature and common sense. Because only you creator knows whats best for you and whats not. just like the parents don't give children sweets sometimes or junk food even though it tastes good, the creator also tells you to abstain from somethings so it benifits you. there is great wisdom behind his commands and most religious figures wether buddha, jesus or moses. they all recognized this and thus were enlightened.

We have many choices because when people are killing people in name of allah we need to question it. If muslims believe in live let live that would be great but muslims kill others who no longer want to be muslims. Muslims want to force people to pray cut of their hands for stupid crimes stone them kill people for private affairs so all of that makes it very important to question all of this. Atheist dont have a problem with your creator but followers of creators wont accept tolerate atheists and their beliefs. Most atheists dont believe in a creator because religion provide little evidence to support its claims. You say creator knows whats best for us but believers of this creator have different ideas. One say pray with your hands on your stomach or i kill you. Other say pray with hands on heart or i kill you. another say spread legs while praying i kill you. Other say dont touch other while praying i kill you. One say raise hands when doing takbeer i kill you. Other say do silent takbeer or i kill you. So what is better for me brother. You say go find the truth your self if i do then you might not agree with the truth i find. You will not agree with my islam. Allah says believe in me or burn in hell why allah just doesnt show self. Why allah does not something that would clear all confusion on his existence. Allah is always asking us to trust everything on blind faith. It is always a man who allah brings as prophet. It is also from the same area for monotheistic religions same family of abraham. Allah protect quran but didnt protect torah or bible why is that. Allah also abbraogtos changes his mind on things like pray to jeruslam no pray to mecca wine is halal no its haram. The muslims give answer is because of different time periods different things. If you believe in different time then you are talking about mindsets affected by those times which means you believe in evolution. Allah was waiting for humans to evolve but religion says evolution is not possible because everyone came from adam and eve so why not allah just revileve everything at once what his this time difference. Why allah needs people to die if they dont want to believe in allah any more. Where is the free will. People dont believe in allah not because they know allah exist but still they refuse him. That is a stupid for anyone to do because if they know allah exist they refuse allah they are sending self to hell for eternity why would anyone do that. If you know killing someone puts you in jail killing some one you dont like will cause you problems you dont do it because you know this is a fact you will go to jail if you kill some one so you are afraid of the law government will find you. so if you know for sure allah is there watching everything but you still say no i dont believe in allah that is a very very stupid thing for any atheist to do. people dont believe because there are so many contradictions so many stupid things dont make sense. why does mohammad need creature to fly to allah. why does mohammad need to go back forth debate with allah number of prayers fasts doesnt allah know what he is going to settle on why not just say 5 prayers 30 fasts. no allah needs to go back and froth with his prophet. allah is now playing games. if you work even your boss doesnt play this game with you if boss already knows what he wants. Only if your boss doesnt knwo and was still thinking he would debate with you about these things back and forth but allah knows everything yet he debates with his prophet about these things. So brother these questions come to mind we dont just make them up. These questions come to mind if you use your brains. I have never seen shatiaan in my life ever never. i never felt or smell his piss in my ear so whats the purpose of him pissing in my year in the first place. i grew up a very religious person brother from a very rich family who hs military background. My father hired a local mulana who was a educated guy to teach us at home he didnt trust he masjid because of incidents with little boys. Even this mulana used to some time joke with us about what he was teaching us. I think he was a closet atheist too.

[randolph85]

^ paragraphs. learn them, let them be ur friend.

[PakistaniAtheist]

Why are none muslims kaffir societies of dajjal

Hi what do you guys think why are kaffir societies of dajjal superior to muslims societies in technology education living standards. Why do these dajjal societies allow muslims to open masjids preach islam have laws that protect muslim rights. Muslims societies if they want to improve their standards they have to adopt many of the innovations of the dajjal societies why is that i mean like their medicine technology inventions. Can you use quran hadiths to compete with these people. What kind of scientific technological things can be derived from quran and hadiths. If you say that quran hadiths can not then claim that quran hadith is sufficient is wrong and false. If you say that quran hadiths leads you to use reasoning logic which allows you to discover science then that very logic when it leads to believe that quran and hadiths are man made how can it be wrong. in the past muslims scholars banned reasoning and logic as hersay for this very reason. without it you are living in 7the century.

[MohannaD]

darkwitch , thank you for your replies to the questions .

[AFG21]

^ what are you talking about????

[Afghanistan2010]

People with not a strong believe in Allah (God) are more affected by Dajjal because they have nothing to believe in and yet this is what will Dajjal use,he will tell them oh you , you are atheist and you do not believe in God its me,man.You wanted to see me , see ,im here.And you : Oh My God ( im no more atheist) then he will show you some magic.

And Ahhhhhhhhhhh le voilà