Interesting dicussions on destruction of Makkah

[Karachi]

Karachi:

Why do you STILL lable all Saudis as supporters of the Al-Saud family when this is FAR from the truth.

I am telling you this as a person who spent most of his living years in Hijaz (just turned 20) others being in Iraq and UAE.

You yourself lived in Riyadh which is situated in Najd, a province famous for their alliance to Al-Saud family.

You also still don't understand that Al-Saud's dictatorship is the most powerful in the Arab world as I told in the beginning of this debate. It is very diifcult (even impossible) to stand up against the Al-Saud family and those tendencies they support (wan't mention them here because that would just start a new debate with more name-calling).

But again, when talking about a problem one should not generalize. It is pointless, insulting and a stupid think to do.

Should I call all Pakistanis for puppets of the United States or bad Muslims because of their close ties to Western societies (Britain, the English language) and close cultural ties to Hindu India?

Then why dont they fight back if they are against the government?? most saudis i met in my life were so lazy,they wont do anything. This is the reason they dont even work and have to import workers from outside to do the work for them. This is exactly the master plan of the government/royals, by making the public so lazy, they know they can stay in power forever, because almost no one has the will to fight against any sort of evil there. I personally see no good future for gulf arabs in general, they are dead people with no souls

[al-arab]

Then why dont they fight back if they are against the government?? most saudis i met in my life were so lazy,they wont do anything. This is the reason they dont even work and have to import workers from outside to do the work for them. This is exactly the master plan of the government/royals, by making the public so lazy, they know they can stay in power forever, because almost no one has the will to fight against any sort of evil there. I personally see no good future for gulf arabs in general, they are dead people with no souls

That is another theme. But the issues you raise can be said about all Muslim countries.

I can only talk for myself and the people I meet during my years in Hijaz and my wife's family. Let us not forget that Hijaz is the most conservatice region in the Muslim world (only talking about locals, yes there are a lot of foreigners in Jeddah for example).

Again, Saudi Arabia is the hardest country to oppose the rule. They are supported 100 percent by the Americans because America need Saudi oil.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya etc. were not backed by any Western power. That is the difference. People now that even if they would demonstrate they would be fruitless and America would not allow a shift of power. America don't care about ordinary Saudis, human rights etc. as long as they can get favorable oil prices.

I do not know how that can surprise you especially when you have lived in Saudi Arabia.

[Alchemist]

Saudi Arabia blames protests on 'outside forces' - YouTube

Revolution imminent in Saudi Arabia - YouTube

[Karachi]

^ old news, and they are only done by shia minorities, not regular saudis.

[PakistaniAtheist]

Looool, look at your oral diarrhea Amu Darya wetback

The burden of proof? You established that you imposed readings and interpolated words into hadith, thats about it. A Hadith where Omar confirms that the early Muslims did not view the rock as diefied, in your pea brain, became confirmation of it being God. How stupid is your logic? A hadith where Muhammad said he wanted to build doors in and out of the kabaah, in your mind extended to say that he wanted to incorporate paganism. And then you quote me Mishqat???? Whats like quoting Pamela Geller dude. It means nothing. Even that quote affirmed that that Muhammad's followers were obsessed with obedience to him (read the last sentence)... so why would he even need to incorporate something to satisfy pagans who he had already won over???

You contradicated yourself with the two quotes and just dug yourself a giant intellectual grave.

You are comparing apples and oranges parsiwaan wetback. For instance, Christian belief in the resurrection and in the trinity might, anthropologically have pagan roots. Thats not the issue here... its your contention that Muhammad willingly incorporated paganism (knowingly) versus the the notion that the theology believes he merely reclaimed it as an Abrahamic practice.

You have yet to prove the first contention.

"splash" --- you hear that sound? Thats me throwing you back into river.

Hi just like christian apologists you muslim apologists end up eating your own silly explanations just to end up in even bigger hole. mohammad was accused of including pagan elements even before and the store of the satanic verses was well established in many islamic sources. so the black stone being a pagan idol incorporated into islam is not a far fetched idea. Simple questions to answer is was the black stone there before mohammads islam. yes. Was it important to the pagan arabic people. yes. Did the pagan arabs associate stones to their gods like hubul. yes. Was this black stone associate with hubul yes. muslim apologists like you work backwards. you make a claim that abraham and his sons put this stone there but you provide no evidence. You say that to believe that it is a system of faith. Ridiculous nonsense. I established certain facts already this stone was there before islam this stone was idolized respected venerated by arabic pagans. If not why was it there. Did the pagan arabic people think this was a stone placed by abraham. The only source of that is mohammad. Mohammad is also the only source to prove he actually talked to god or the angel jabraeel. What was the reason for mohammad to kiss the stone circle around it point to it. Give us your islamic apologists explanation why a monotheistic prophet associated religious significance to a stone not just any stone but a stone that was also important to pagan arabic people. Dont dance around the issue give your own twist on things you are free to give authentic islamic explanation let us see how they explain this shirk in the heart of this religion.