modern world and sharia?

[Badlun]

what about the rules and regulation in Quran and hadiths???? i mean if there is no system, what system are we suppose to have??? a society cannot function without rules and regulations, islam clearly lays them out

The rules are about beliefs, worship(5 pillars) , morality and spirituality.This is the religion and not Sharia. I believe in the religion of Islam but not in the so called sharia of Islam. Whatever laws like evidence, inheritance, divorce , usury, forced sexual relations etc that we have in Quran have moral under-pinnings and nothing to do with politics, economics, society, culture etc.

I dont believe in all hadith , only in those hadith which are compatible with Quran and reason as is the school of thought of Imam Abu Hanifa and those hadith which are about the religion but not about beyond religion. I dont believe in any hadith which prohibits music, dance, shave, modern clothes, stopping women not to participate in social, economic and political activities.

[Badlun]

i wouldn't call western democracy "modern" in comparison to islam, in fact it is backwards. it is the way people behaved in the days of ignorance. besides the timeline, there is nothing modern about it.

having a pure shariah state in this day and age is hard to comprehend but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that there will ever be a utopian islamic state. that is what heaven is for, here on earth we have to make due with imperfect human beings ruling over us. the best we can hope for is a progressive islamic state where the leaders are subject to the same laws as the rest of the population.

Democracy is modern as besides the City states of Athens, we did not have democracy in past mainly before the Reformation and Renaissance.It is the best system humanity have ever had in the world history so far.

If we wait for the heaven and paradise then this life is totally meaningless. Lets have the heaven here as the G8 or G20 have in this world because of democracy and development or optimum utilization of the natural, human and financial resources.

In the modern democratic world rulers and the ruled are subject to the same laws as we can see in the developed world with our own eyes where the rule of the law is the only norm and the only rule.

[Badlun]

Then how do you explain the practices of the Early Muslims where they applied Laws based on the teachings of Muhammad and the Qur'an?

Those were either religious laws in the spheres of faith, worship, morality and spirituality or Arab practices to rule over the rest of the world by the Arab families or dynasties.Muhammad was a prophet for the religion but an Arab leader, politician and Army General being a person not as a prophet.He ,many times himself differentiated his teachings as a person and as a prophet.Otherwise having 12 wives would be now compulsory for all Muslims.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Those were either religious laws in the spheres of faith, worship, morality and spirituality or Arab practices to rule over the rest of the world by the Arab families or dynasties.Muhammad was a prophet for the religion but an Arab leader, politician and Army General being a person not as a prophet.He ,many times himself differentiated his teachings as a person and as a prophet.Otherwise having 12 wives would be now compulsory for all Muslims.

We're not talking about later Muslims, we're talking about early Muslims in the life of Muhammad(saw).

how do you explain that Muhammad(saw) applied social laws and governing rules and procedures outside of merely certain spiritual or morality practices which also went against Arab customs? and also didn't Muhammad(saw) say he could have 12 wives because of he had a special privilege as a Prophet?

Why does your claim seem to contradict the available facts that we have about Muhammad(saw)'s life?
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[Badlun]

Schimitatar, what are your views about the tablighi jamaat which is spread all over the world, which is non violent ??? spreading the message with peace.

Tablighi Jumaat are the most dangerous people who are not only promoting fatalism, wahabism and inertia but are also indirectly preparing suicide bombers by teaching that this world is meaningless and our final destination is paradise and lets do every thing to reach there. This is the best recipe for a potential suicide bomber.
Tablighees are fatal because they are promoting deobandism, wahabism, salafism but in a very tactful ,non violent ,silent and diplomatic way.They are slow poisoning the society and making Muslims inactive and inert.They are the real cause of terrorism and extremism but are so intelligent that no body take notice of them because of their tactful strategy and methodology.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Democracy is modern as besides the City states of Athens, we did not have democracy in past mainly before the Reformation and Renaissance.It is the best system humanity have ever had in the world history so far.

how do you explain the evidence of democracies existing within Islam long before the Reformation and Renaissance?

If we wait for the heaven and paradise then this life is totally meaningless. Lets have the heaven here as the G8 or G20 have in this world because of democracy and development or optimum utilization of the natural, human and financial resources.

If they created heaven on Earth, then why do they have so much corruption and social imbalance?

In the modern democratic world rulers and the ruled are subject to the same laws as we can see in the developed world with our own eyes where the rule of the law is the only norm and the only rule.

Then why are leaders of contemporary societies given special protections and privileges against Legal reprimand for things that normal citizens would not have. For example Bush did not get sentenced for war crimes.

[Alchemist]

...tsk tsk tsk

osha whooping ****mitar's dull edge...now I've seen it all

[ScimitarXEdge]

...tsk tsk tsk

osha whooping ****mitar's dull edge...now I've seen it all

you mean by totally evading my question?

[ScimitarXEdge]

The rules are about beliefs, worship(5 pillars) , morality and spirituality.This is the religion and not Sharia. I believe in the religion of Islam but not in the so called sharia of Islam. Whatever laws like evidence, inheritance, divorce , usury, forced sexual relations etc that we have in Quran have moral under-pinnings and nothing to do with politics, economics, society, culture etc.

I dont believe in all hadith , only in those hadith which are compatible with Quran and reason as is the school of thought of Imam Abu Hanifa and those hadith which are about the religion but not about beyond religion. I dont believe in any hadith which prohibits music, dance, shave, modern clothes, stopping women not to participate in social, economic and political activities.

politics is based on morality and so is society and culture, because they determine how to regulate social order and structure, which is what politics administers. So what you're arguing becomes a logical contradiction

ANd even if we accept your idea that the hadith dealing with the subjects you list are not valid. How do you explain that thousands of other hadith deal with politics, ruling, governing society and penalties for disobeying Laws?

[emkhan]

Tablighi Jumaat are the most dangerous people who are not only promoting fatalism, wahabism and inertia but are also indirectly preparing suicide bombers by teaching that this world is meaningless and our final destination is paradise and lets do every thing to reach there. This is the best recipe for a potential suicide bomber.
Tablighees are fatal because they are promoting deobandism, wahabism, salafism but in a very tactful ,non violent ,silent and diplomatic way.They are slow poisoning the society and making Muslims inactive and inert.They are the real cause of terrorism and extremism but are so intelligent that no body take notice of them because of their tactful strategy and methodology.

OH... I read your other thread... I did not know you are a kafir.
Kafir people always have bad impression about good Muslims, its not your fault. good luck

[emkhan]

they teach deobandi ignorance. not as bad as the Taliban but very foolish. Anything associated with Deoband is foolish and incorrect Shari'ah.

You are the only Muslim whose ideas are correct and the rest are foolish and incorrect. Come out of this fake shell.

[asad71]

1. If you ponder, much of our problems would be over if we all learnt Arabic the way we learn English or French. A good portion of the Muslim society is ruled (if I may use that word) by the mullahs who have learnt to read or recite the Holy Quo'an without knowing what it means, what it implies, the context and the relevance. There are admirable exceptions - but how many? We have a lot of wonderful transliteration, but you can never get the essence through translation/transliteration.

2. Why can the Ummah not have [COLOR="rgb(46, 139, 87)"]an universal education curriculum for the Muslim society [/COLOR]like the A/O Levels, GED, IB, etc? We will then all be on one net. Education, as we all agree, is the main weapon WCC (Western Christian Civilization) has deployed against us. And we Muslims had prospered it was because of education, science, research and medicine.

[Bengal_Tiger]

I haven't read this thread and don't intend to, but am only commenting because I saw Asad71's name on it, in the main front page.

Education is the way forward, education, education, education, as well as a revival of spirituality (tassawuf), which confirms to Islamic rules.

One of the greatest scholars of the modern period in regard to this is Badiuzzaman Said Nursi (rahmatullahi alaih) of Kurdistan.

Speaking Arabic does not ensure unity, as the heavily divided Arab world e.g. Bahrain, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen shows us, however it is something that we should strive to do.

Learning Arabic does not mean wanting to be an Arab in the same way learning English does not mean wanting to be an American redneck from Texas.

*Me out of this thread now*

[randolph85]

You are the only Muslim whose ideas are correct and the rest are foolish and incorrect. Come out of this fake shell.

popularity does not = correctness.

are u going to say that shia ideology is right because there is 150 million of them? or that secularists are right because most of the world today is secular? the truth is not a popularity contest.

lets not forget the hadith about muslims retreating in seclusion one day to get away from the disbelief of the world.

[randolph85]

Democracy is modern as besides the City states of Athens, we did not have democracy in past mainly before the Reformation and Renaissance.It is the best system humanity have ever had in the world history so far.

If we wait for the heaven and paradise then this life is totally meaningless. Lets have the heaven here as the G8 or G20 have in this world because of democracy and development or optimum utilization of the natural, human and financial resources.

In the modern democratic world rulers and the ruled are subject to the same laws as we can see in the developed world with our own eyes where the rule of the law is the only norm and the only rule.

ahh the good ol greeks, the toga wearing gay pedophiles.

lol @ rule of law in the west. tell that to the people languishing in secret prisons all across the world without any due process. or marvel how a killer like bush can go on the tonight show with jay leno and joke around while the mindless audience claps.