Does God exist ?

[Roshina]

Uh, Sangar? Saying that Dawkins has good arguments means I'm a kuffar? I told you - anyone who disagrees with you is a kafir in your opinion; any time you can't refute what someone says, you tell them they're just insulting Islam.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Dawkins views are deviant to Islam. To say Dawkins has a good argument and he makes more sense means Islam has nothing better to offer.

Its simple.

exactly.

[Roshina]

Dawkins views are deviant to Islam. To say Dawkins has a good argument and he makes more sense means Islam has nothing better to offer.

Its simple.

I understand that's what you think, Shlombay. I understand that that's one meaning of it. But in my opinion, that's a very narrow-minded and shallow conclusion to make from what I've said.

You see, another way to see it as would be: Most theists don't have good arguments for the existence of God.

It wouldn't mean that the theists are right or wrong, and neither would it mean that the atheists are right or wrong; it'd just mean that when it comes to reasoning the existence (or lack of existence) of God, a certain side has better arguments. However, reason should also tell you that that doesn't necessarily make that side the winner.

And it's not just about Islam; it's about all religions, k? Any that believe in God. That'd include Christianity and Judaism. They only say that God exists, and, according to our own Sangar here, the best way to prove it is through the Quran! Um, no, in discussions, you don't quote something to say, "I believe in God because the Quran says to believe in God."

Also bear in the mind that it should be the final conclusion that a person makes that should matter to you. I'm ALL for listening to all sides of an argument before making up my mind, and I believe that it is only that way that we can REALLY understand and appreciate a certain belief system (in this case, an argument). Dawkins has quite compelling arguments, but I remain a theist Muslim. So why should it bother you that I have a lot of respect for Dawkins? Am I not allowed to study his works or consider his points? Am I not allowed to respect a non-Muslim or an atheist? Sorry, but no.

Oh, and one more thing: You shoulnd't hate a certain argument just because the person presenting the argument is someone who you don't agree with it or who doesn't follow the religion you follow. You should be focusing on the argument rather than the person presenting it.

[Roshina]

I am not your enemy or anything here so don't think that.

No, I don't think that at all. Expressing disagreements with others doesn't mean we hate them or are their enemies.

but that is like me saying

"Jesus was the son of God, since Christians have a good argument"

If you think this, you did not understand at all. If you're willing to listen, we can go over it one more time so you understand it before involving yourself in a discussion on it.

Oh, and as my old signature used to read: "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Yet I am running around claiming I am a Muslim and I am majoring in Islamic studies, and saying I am the best Muslim. Do you get it?

I am majoring in Islamic Studies, and I plan to be an Islamic Studies professor. So next time, be sure to add that in

BUT I've never said I'm "the best Muslim" - oh God, please, no. The "best Muslim" would never say that to begin with :| No, I don't believe I'm the best Muslim, but I don't believe that ANYONE we know is the best Muslim. Period. We cannot read anyone's minds or hearts; they may not be what they appear to be.

[Roshina]

I read your post Qrratugai. Sangar showed it to the world. You are convinced that Dawkins has a good argument. Saying that is kuffar cause his arguments go against Islam.

How is it against Islam to study an argument and realize that it is a damn good one? I can imagine that it'd be against Islam ONLY if I fell for it and decided that "you know what? God doesn't exist," in which I woudln't call myself a Muslim then, right? The core belief of Islam is monotheism.

I don't consider my faith to be weak. IF it were weak and I feared that if I studied atheism, I'd fall for it, then, yeah, that'd be against Islam by your standards, but this way, I find nothing wrong with it, and you have to convince me that it's un-Islamic to believe that Dawkins has a good argument.

When you are a Muslim you have to follow Islam.
Which means christianity, hinduism = unacceptable.

What exactly is your point? I don't believe that Hinduism, Christianity, etc. are compatible with Islamic beliefs, so I'm not sure what you're tryina say.

However, they're religions and JUST as right *in the beliefs of those who practice them* as Islam is right to us. We don't believe they're right, and they don't believe we're right. They believe it's their duty to preach us their religions and put us on the "right path" and we believe the same.

I believe in studying as many as we can, but settling for whatever we believe is the right path. I understand this would make you go "NO! Only Islam is the right one, and all others are wrong!" But that's not my point. Islam is right to Muslims, and the other are right to the other people, and they have as much a right to practice their religions as we have a right to practice ours.

We can only teach others; we can't tell them to believe our way because it's the right way. That's just ignorant and arrogance.

[Michin Khel]

How is it against Islam to study an argument and realize that it is a damn good one? I can imagine that it'd be against Islam ONLY if I fell for it and decided that "you know what? God doesn't exist," in which I woudln't call myself a Muslim then, right? The core belief of Islam is monotheism.

Qrratugai khorey can you share your conecpt of Allah (God) with us, i shall be very thankful.

I believe in studying as many as we can, but settling for whatever we believe is the right path. I understand this would make you go "NO! Only Islam is the right one, and all others are wrong!" But that's not my point. Islam is right to Muslims, and the other are right to the other people, and they have as much a right to practice their religions as we have a right to practice ours.

How many religions you have have studied so far and how much?

I am majoring in Islamic Studies, and I plan to be an Islamic Studies professor. So next time, be sure to add that in

What will be the purpose and gain of magoring in islamic studies? What will you teach to your students?

[erlangner]

Yarra Pir sahib, lakka che pa arabiano zan wajnay?
I have one colleague (German) an innocent person and once he said, I don't believe in any religion, however I believe in God. I asked but how you came to know,that God exists and religion does not. He innocently answered although he is in completion fo PhD, that our school teacher told us this and he also told us that religions results in conflicts, that is why it is better to believe in God but not in religion.
I think same is the case with many of our fellows (I include myself as well) that we have learnt it from our masjid teacher that God exists and Islam is the true religion, then no need for clarification.
However, being a biologist, I come across mayn things, where I will surely say, God not only exists but is functional also anywhere, everywhere, however.
Now you all will ask for arguments, my arguments is our helplessness in many things,not as a person me, but all human beings. my mind goes more towards God existence than non-existance.
Ghani Khan says:

Dagha tol waee che shta ye
ao da zra me waee shta ye
kho jahan de dassay khkari
lakka be malika kor

(perhaps wrong in words but not in sense)

[MazloomyarMaseed]

How is it against Islam to study an argument and realize that it is a damn good one? I can imagine that it'd be against Islam ONLY if I fell for it and decided that "you know what? God doesn't exist," in which I woudln't call myself a Muslim then, right? The core belief of Islam is monotheism.

I don't consider my faith to be weak. IF it were weak and I feared that if I studied atheism, I'd fall for it, then, yeah, that'd be against Islam by your standards, but this way, I find nothing wrong with it, and you have to convince me that it's un-Islamic to believe that Dawkins has a good argument.



What exactly is your point? I don't believe that Hinduism, Christianity, etc. are compatible with Islamic beliefs, so I'm not sure what you're tryina say.

However, they're religions and JUST as right *in the beliefs of those who practice them* as Islam is right to us. We don't believe they're right, and they don't believe we're right. They believe it's their duty to preach us their religions and put us on the "right path" and we believe the same.

I believe in studying as many as we can, but settling for whatever we believe is the right path. I understand this would make you go "NO! Only Islam is the right one, and all others are wrong!" But that's not my point. Islam is right to Muslims, and the other are right to the other people, and they have as much a right to practice their religions as we have a right to practice ours.

We can only teach others; we can't tell them to believe our way because it's the right way. That's just ignorant and arrogance.

Dear Qurragai

I was told by Sangar and Abu Bakar the following:-

"A Muslim is permitted to receive Weapons,Training and funding from Kaffirs to Kill Kaffirs"

So in essence with accordance to the Hadith translated by Sangar and Abu Bakar

"A Muslim is permitted to receive education,knowledge and non muslim sources to defeat the Non Muslim on a intellectual level"

One admires the Stinger Missle from Kaffir America, so A Muslim has the right to admire books written by Non Muslims. Knowledge is not only limited to the Quran, there is a much bigger world out there and there is alot to earn.

Sangar calls everybody Kaffir/Kuffur, its a confidence booster for those who support suicide bombings and killings of innocent people, Most of them live in the West and contribute to the Secularist system there.

Kind Regards

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Yarra Pir sahib, lakka che pa arabiano zan wajnay?
I have one colleague (German) an innocent person and once he said, I don't believe in any religion, however I believe in God. I asked but how you came to know,that God exists and religion does not. He innocently answered although he is in completion fo PhD, that our school teacher told us this and he also told us that religions results in conflicts, that is why it is better to believe in God but not in religion.
I think same is the case with many of our fellows (I include myself as well) that we have learnt it from our masjid teacher that God exists and Islam is the true religion, then no need for clarification.
However, being a biologist, I come across mayn things, where I will surely say, God not only exists but is functional also anywhere, everywhere, however.
Now you all will ask for arguments, my arguments is our helplessness in many things,not as a person me, but all human beings. my mind goes more towards God existence than non-existance.
Ghani Khan says:

Dagha tol waee che shta ye
ao da zra me waee shta ye
kho jahan de dassay khkari
lakka be malika kor

(perhaps wrong in words but not in sense)

I beleive there is a god but I dont support this Gang Mentality of Relgionous Bigots, Mullahs are suppose to be peaceful figures but most of them are violent people who use gods name to declare war on others instead of living peaceful lives and preaching harmony.

[erlangner]

I beleive there is a god but I dont support this Gang Mentality of Relgionous Bigots, Mullahs are suppose to be peaceful figures but most of them are violent people who use gods name to declare war on others instead of living peaceful lives and preaching harmony.

Ya for sure Mullas are saying something else.

Again I will qoute Ghani Khan,
Sta wakeel pa chagho, che Ta skhat ao zakat ghware,
Khwakh de ghat ghat khairatoona, pokh ao speen shan joomat ghware,
Sta wakeel waee pa chagho che ta skhat ao zakat ghware,
Zaray mekhay da punjab, ghatay wreejay da swat ghware

Kho
Lan tanalulbirra, hatta tunfiqoo mimma tohibboon
There is no goodness as long as you dont sacrifice your dearest wish, (Alquran)

However, Mullas are the main reason making people away from religion, as each new day new fatwas with many new kaafirs, instead making people muslims, they are making people kaafir.

But Zra me ham waee che ye, God exists

[pir_Rokhan]

For me, those are sufficient to believe in existence of god. Not for you obviosuly.

This is Sufi point of view about God. As they claim to have seen, talked to and experienced god.

After Ozy has refuted all the arguments you have for the existence of God, I think you should either put forward more argument or let us know how these refuted arguments are sufficient for you.


May I suggest dont give proofs or evidence from Quran as had those who challenge the existence believed in Quran,there would have been no debate at all.

I am sure while you scare the naive Afghans by labellig them as "Kuffar" ,Ozy does not care much about your judgements. So ad hominem will not work too in his case.

[pir_Rokhan]

Dawkins views are deviant to Islam. To say Dawkins has a good argument and he makes more sense means Islam has nothing better to offer.

Its simple.

Dawkins's argument may be deviant to Islam but it does not mean it is invalid. If you think his argument is invalid , then you should give your arguments to prove it invalid.

[pir_Rokhan]

I read your post Qrratugai. Sangar showed it to the world. You are convinced that Dawkins has a good argument. Saying that is kuffar cause his arguments go against Islam. When you are a Muslim you have to follow Islam. Which means christianity, hinduism = unacceptable.

The faith in the belief of God whether it is by muslim or Christian or Jew does not prove the existence of God.

[Roshina]

Dawkins's argument may be deviant to Islam but it does not mean it is invalid. If you think his argument is invalid , then you should give your arguments to prove it invalid.

Gosh, you said it so much better than I would have!
Exactly.

[آريا]

Muslims know God from only His signs. Existence of supernatural can neither be proved nor disproved.