Who needs a man!

[ScimitarXEdge]

How good is your Arabic, Barakzai? Because the word "huwa" in Arabic doesn't mean "he" alone; it is also a gender-neutral term that means "It". We prefer to use "He" because "It" sounds disrespectful.

I have an Arabic speaking mother and I have a strong working knowledge of Arabic; and you're right when the noun is not distinct and is generic the word "huwaa" is used to describe "it" but when you deal with Proper nouns such as Allaah, it's masculine, if Allah was feminine it would be Allat. Even though even then Huwaa doesn't mean Allah(swt) is a "man" or "male" it does mean that when he is referred to as "huwaa" is is representing certain attributes reflected in males.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Roshina,

If you have problems with men, let it be so, but don't let this ruin your relationship with Allah.

Allah in the Qur'an refers to Himself as 'he', howa (as oppose to female, hiya). If you utter about Allah what He has not ordained, you risk the chance of experiencing His wrath.

If you are not a muslim, then you can at least plead ignorance.

She is a Muslim if she says she is, I mean every golden age of Islam has allowed this debate. For every Bukhari there is an Ibn Abi Dawud, controversial to his father, Abu Dawud, with his Kitaab e Masahif. For every Omar bin Abdul Aziz, there is a Mansur Al Hallaj. I think its fair for her to pose quandries as it merely allows us to study Al Kitaab with further vigor. That being said, I think I fall in line with you and am a strict interpretationalist. That engineer that remains in me demands that element of logic. I mean we see it here for open display. My issue with opening up interpretations that the Sahabaah, the Prophet, The inheritors, and the Quran itself first and foremost do not endorse, is that you have this situation where you assume Roshina is far on the left end of the spectrum right? However, she may deny it, but now even Roshina is seeing that there are folks that insert interpretations in such a volatile fashion that you give birth to Abielle. This is then what leads to those ayaahs I posted warned against in regard to covering up what God revealed or adding to it.

However, Roshina, I encourage you to keep raising your viewpoints because a back and forth leads us to review what we knew of the scripture. As a younger boy I had much more time to read the canonical collections and the Kitaab of God itself.

[Roshina]

When "He" creates, he is a He, when he nurtures he reflects Rahman. Rahma refering to the The Womb, a feminine attribute.

I'm pleased to see someone else, too, is aware of the meaning of the term "Rahman"! It does come from "Rahma," which means "womb." It was a moment of such delight when I discovered this recently! I mean, THINK about it! What all does this term entail considering its powerful meaning!

[ScimitarXEdge]

I'm pleased to see someone else, too, is aware of the meaning of the term "Rahman"! It does come from "Rahma," which means "womb." It was a moment of such delight when I discovered this recently! I mean, THINK about it! What all does this term entail considering its powerful meaning!

well technically the word "RuHHm" means womb, but that's my fault for not clarifying that. Yes that's one of the interesting things about the Arabic language, much like Pashto, there are practical roots which have profound symbolic relevance.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Can we stop trying to pick on Roshina because she sometimes refers to Allah(swt) as "she"


do you realize that often times Sufi poets have also done the same thing, yet no one abjured them because they understand that Allaah(swt) being Supreme reflects the best aspects of the feminine and masculine without Gender

When "He" creates, he is a He, when he nurtures he reflects Rahman. Rahma refering to the The Womb, a feminine attribute.

please let's stop drawing straw hairs.

I agree its a minor point and the substance of her argument is valid. The issue once again doing what those ayaahs warn against, especially that last from surah najm. I mean Khan Saib, this is not a book written by you and me, this is the word of God himself. We dare not even touch it without having done ablution. Just as constitionalists abhore playing fast and loose with their own "sacred" scripture, if they can afford that much respect to a man made document, we, male and female alike, ought not so cavalierly talk about the word of God. This is not an attempt to say "we must all be alimaan." Instead, its an attempt to say that before we submit to the times and add in what our desires are, we should be ever so careful to make sure that we not committ a sin while doing so.

[Roshina]

However, Roshina, I encourage you to keep raising your viewpoints because a back and forth leads us to review what we knew of the scripture. As a younger boy I had much more time to read the canonical collections and the Kitaab of God itself.

Thanks for the encouragement! The best encouragement for me to keep raising my viewpoints are when there's criticism; without criticism, I neither have the will nor the purpose of sharing a viewpoint. So all those who disagree with me should point out -- but, no, empty comments like "You are X, and you are here to do Y, and you don't know what you are talking about," etc., etc. don't count. They serve only to amuse me and that's it. But it's always uplifting to hear someone who almost always disagrees with you to keep speaking up even if there are disagreements!

Manana. Bless your heart and mind!

[Abeille]

but not for you to stalk me; by the way, what are your opinions on the Agha Khan?

Don't ever bring him into any conversation. I will not allow you.

[ScimitarXEdge]

exposed

someone's depending on a man.

[Abeille]

He is different.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Thanks for the encouragement! The best encouragement for me to keep raising my viewpoints are when there's criticism; without criticism, I neither have the will nor the purpose of sharing a viewpoint. So all those who disagree with me should point out -- but, no, empty comments like "You are X, and you are here to do Y, and you don't know what you are talking about," etc., etc. don't count. They serve only to amuse me and that's it. But it's always uplifting to hear someone who almost always disagrees with you to keep speaking up even if there are disagreements!

Manana. Bless your heart and mind!

No worries. Like a typical Pashtun, I learned the yadaash of the surahs in Arabic without knowing their meaning, but with subsequent self study I try to tie together the Arabic. So, I by no means and authoratative, but I learn from folks like XEdge per his grammatical lesson above. I did not know Rahma derived from womb. Without the discussion, I would not have known the dual nature of huwaa, or the masculinity of huwaa in its usage with the name of God.

XEdge, what is your opinion on the Abdullah Yusuf Ali tarjumaa? He appears to take some liberality with masculine/female issues/Interest banking as well. Nonetheless, it is an English masterpiece and the English he utilizes is absolutely beautiful. For example, in the ayaah on the creation of woman, he translates it as "and of like nature we created his mate." Others translate it as "and from him we created his mate." He gives some detailed arguments about his translation of the ayaah and I am sure Roshina would appreciate his tafsir as it is a groundbreaking intrepretation on the independent creation of female. It breaks away from the "of the rib" creationism advocated by Judeo Christianity and that subsequent Muslims saw creep into their traditions as a contribution from Bani Israel.

Unfortunately, his translation was hijacked and completely filtered in various areas of the world. His original tafsir has actually also been altered in the Masaahif distributed from Jeddah.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I agree its a minor point and the substance of her argument is valid. The issue once again doing what those ayaahs warn against, especially that last from surah najm. I mean Khan Saib, this is not a book written by you and me, this is the word of God himself. We dare not even touch it without having done ablution. Just as constitionalists abhore playing fast and loose with their own "sacred" scripture, if they can afford that much respect to a man made document, we, male and female alike, ought not so cavalierly talk about the word of God. This is not an attempt to say "we must all be alimaan." Instead, its an attempt to say that before we submit to the times and add in what our desires are, we should be ever so careful to make sure that we not committ a sin while doing so.

That's true I agree we should not recite it any other way other than the way Allah izza wa jal has denoted it.

But outside of that we should understand her philosophical point that Allah(swt) despite being without gender embodies the beauties of both genders.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I brought up the Agha Khan to verify my suspicions that you're the crazy Hindustani Ismaili girl who always used to follow me around on the internet.

lo and behold you are.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

exposed

someone's depending on a man.

Dang you are good. That was a keen catch.

[Abeille]

What is wrong with a Muslim woman marrying 4 men, or marrying an Atheist or a Hindu?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Dang you are good. That was a keen catch.

It's not that, Abeilie and I have a semi-history together, she stalked me, I threatened to call the authorities on her. Good times.