Who needs a man!

[ScimitarXEdge]

You can't tell me whether I am a Muslim or not. Times are changing. We feminist will sanction polyandry and marriages to anyone. Why? Because we feel god. It cannot be an illusion.

And if you're an ismaili you can't say that you're a Muslim or not. because if you're Ismaili everything you feel is an illusion, no really it's in your doctrines. LOL

[Ulfserker]

Never discuss with Zionists about history, with Communists about politics and with Feminists about anything.

[Abeille]

Feminism is where the truth lies.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Yusuf Ali was from an Ismaili household?

However, a fascinating thing occurs if you compare him to Pikthall on a personal level. So there was a big group of intellectuals that all studied together for the Bar in Britian including Iqbal, Yusuf Ali, Pikthall, and Judge Syed Ameer Ali. I do not mean to be a mystic about it, but if you follow their biographies and see the outcomes of their actions, you learn a lot of where choices in life lead you. So Iqbal laid the ground work for Islamist philosophies but did not rigidly adhere himself at all times. An example was his poetry praising Ahmad Shah Abdali. Yusuf Ali was a royalist and had such a severe love for the crown that he actually helped propagandize for the British during their war against the Caliphate, yet he did so because he believed that hindu India was much more dangerous if it came into being than British India. When Pikthall (a white convert) was asked to do the same, he outright refused and his career with the Civil Service was damaged as was his pension. Ameer Ali was a deep thinker on Shariah but like Iqbal, he fit into the British society.

Their outcomes:

Yusuf Ali married two British ladies, the first had cheated on him hence his marriage to the second... his kids disowned him and he died alone on the steps of a hospital in Britian. His only memorable outcome, which has reached the masses so it is no small accomplishment, was his Quranic translation. All except one of his kids left Islam.

Marmaduke Pikthall had no kids, but became more fervent. To this day, British Muslims view him as a father of their observance to classical Islam and a principled humanist.

Ameer Ali's son spied on Muslims and married a dutchess. His whole progeny has left Islam.

Iqbal's son endorsed corrupt Pakistani politics it appears and had little of his father's Islamic ambitions.

This then leads to a quandry for those of us here in the West regarding the fate of our future generations. All is in God's hands as even a Prophet like Noah had a disobedient son. However, when we compare the outcome of Pikthall who did not comprimise on the Quran and on standing tall on the seerah, he appears to have had his reward in this life and inshallah in akhiraah. Another good case study for religious groups and how they fare in the West is the study of the jewess Abigail Franks. Her unfortunate outcome is being seen time and time again here in the USA.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Feminism is where the truth lies.

literally, because it's built on lies.

[Alchemist]

She is a Muslim if she says she is, I mean every golden age of Islam has allowed this debate. For every Bukhari there is an Ibn Abi Dawud, controversial to his father, Abu Dawud, with his Kitaab e Masahif. For every Omar bin Abdul Aziz, there is a Mansur Al Hallaj. I think its fair for her to pose quandries as it merely allows us to study Al Kitaab with further vigor. That being said, I think I fall in line with you and am a strict interpretationalist. That engineer that remains in me demands that element of logic. I mean we see it here for open display. My issue with opening up interpretations that the Sahabaah, the Prophet, The inheritors, and the Quran itself first and foremost do not endorse, is that you have this situation where you assume Roshina is far on the left end of the spectrum right? However, she may deny it, but now even Roshina is seeing that there are folks that insert interpretations in such a volatile fashion that you give birth to Abielle. This is then what leads to those ayaahs I posted warned against in regard to covering up what God revealed or adding to it.

Yeah, I like Roshina too. She is a cool gal.

I think you give some people more credit than they are due...now way is anything 'discussed' in this thread of the same caliber of what the great scholars of old used to delve.
I do admit that this whole feminism issue is very vague and confusing to me, since I am a male. I don't have any sisters and the only woman in my life is my mother. So if I read some girls screaming bloody murder, then maybe there is some social injustice that I am habitually blind to.
In the bigger picture, the west has sold to the world the idea, after hundreds of years of propagation, that Afghan women are oppressed and mistreated and they need to be "liberated" by mimicking western civilization. Most westernized Afghans have taken up the same western dialogue, and are not trying to recapitulate the women's right movements of the west. So we have some thing like 22 females in parliament? I believe that is a higher ration than even here in Canada. I suppose ideally there would be 50:50? but with the population of men dwindling over the years, perhaps 40:60 later? I already feel like I am living in a matriarchy. The most powerful royalty on the planet is a female.

[Abeille]

there is an excellent biography about him that is touching in terms of how it characterizes one of the most literary muslims of the last century, yusuf ali, called searching for solace. If i remember correctly, he was born into a dawudi bohra household from when i read it, or from some other source. I would confirm that though as it has been years since i read on him. However, he traveled far and wide and subsequently, per his literary masterpiece and painstaking efforts, approached the quran through the works of the ahle sunnah like imam razi, bukhari, etc. He continued to have a deep devotion to the household of the prophet and wrote beautiful tracts on their struggles in the time of ali etc. However, he tempered it towards a unified ummah as edge does. Just as edge feels that iran and shiahs can be incorporated as a madhab, it appears yusuf ali was married to that idea of unity. So if you admire his translation, and its attempt to take classical sources like the works of ghazali, tammiyah, tirmidhi, bukhari, razi, kathir, abu dawud into account as i showed per the ayaah above, then i think that you can see the genesis of yusuf ali and his transition from ismaili toward the quran in the light of sunnah.

tfs.

[Abeille]

literally, because it's built on lies.

I am pretty sure Roshina would disagree.

[Ulfserker]

perfect quote because truth hurts.

So you tell me that both Zionist history and Communist politics are true?

I doubt, reasonable, by the way.

I personally 8 times proved that feminism is not truth to dedicated feminists, but it is late now, almost 03 AM. Let us discuss this tomorrow.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I am pretty sure Roshina would disagree.

that's the beauty of reality, it doesnt need your approval.

[Abeille]

that's the beauty of reality, it doesnt need your approval.

When you have a relationship with god, then you just know you are right, despite what a man might think.

[faye]

You will never know a feminist, honey. You are going off tangent.

now, now, sweetie. if only you knew...i think it is perhaps you who is tangenting

[Abeille]

I am going to start a blog, soon, and jot down ideas of how to empower women for women.

[ScimitarXEdge]

When you have a relationship with god, then you just know you are right, despite what a man might think.

Well that's a relief, because you clearly don't have one; despite what I think, thanks for admitting your error.

[Abeille]

now, now, sweetie. if only you knew...i think it is perhaps you who is tangenting

I spoke English.