Has anyone read the Quran?

[Dervaish]

[QUOTE=3.14159265...;334693]I have no desire for mental gymnastics. I have no intention of arguing whether or not my way reading the Quran is better than the way you suggest.
If something is written on paper using language with reasonable length, I call it a book. I read things that are written. I then think about and discuss things which I read.
I read the Quran, I thought about it, now I want to discuss it. QUOTE]


You have read Quran, thought about it and now want to discuss it. Appreciable thinking. Just keep this in mind that:
Quran does not discuss one top. It covers the activities of whole life here on this earth and life after death.
It covers politics, culture, science, history, future prophesies and keep counting topics, there is no end. You can not categorize it as a book of history, or culture or say religion.
You want to discuss, very good move to learning and understanding but in my view the best way is, select a topic, if you can give a quote from the Quran, and tell us what you understand of that and let others say what they understand and say about it. You may not get knowledgeable answers from every one because there are people whose faith is based on emotions but you might get answers based on logic, knowledge and understanding from individuals who understand, are knowledgeable and care.
Saying that you want to discuss Quran, without specifying a topic, will create misunderstanding, as you should have judged from the answers you are receiving from the various post.
Be specific and clear. God bless you.

( My request to all members: Please do not take this thread emotionally and do not let it spoiled. If you do not have a knowledgeable answer, don't answer. Let those individuals answer it who really know the answer.)

[Feroza_Banu]

If you want to discuss the Quran, then you have to get in touch with a scholar, check his credentials and then decide whether you want to discuss it with him or not.

no one is a scholar here (as far i know)... whats the point of discussing something with people that might even know what they are discussing, or whether they hold a position to discuss it.

and with all due respect Pi, (i mean no offense in this), you don't hold a position to discuss Quran either. Just because you have read the Quran with translation, doesn't mean u are now in a position to discuss God's words... you should be in a level where u are still learning and understanding Quran, not discussing it

[Dreamer]

Reading the Bible and the Torah should never be considered a prerequisite for understanding the Qur'an. If the bible and the torah were kept in their original form and had not been "written by their own hands for a small price" then perhaps the Qur'an would not have been needed. This is a false supposition to have because it gives the illusion that the difference between Qur'an, The New Testament and the Old Testament is akin to the differences between Windows 95, Windows 2000 or Windows XP. Much of the stories that are iterated in the Qur'an are for correctional purposes...for example the story of Isa ibn Maryam, peace be upon him, and the story of Ibrahim, peace be upon him, who alike with Solomon, peace be upon him are portrayed negatively in events.
I have found the the reading of the Old and New Testaments are by a great deal contradictory and the passages in the New Testament are blasphemous, to say the least. Even though there are some similarities in context, even the style and intended purpose is corrupted. For example, in the bible and the torah, women are never acknowledged, but in the Qur'an they are..."muslimeena wal muslimaat". I would say that the reading of the Qur'an is actually the prerequisite for reading Torah or the bible, so as not to get lost and confused by them.

regardless some of the divine message is still preserved... mentions of a prophecy in the old testement etc deutoronomy 18:18

[3.14159265...]

Idiot, I only know 3.1415926358, we might as well discuss this as we are getting off topic. Damn, that is a brilliant username!

Catya Sher, I invite people to read the Quran, because it is the politest way I can tell people to not have an opinion on a book they haven't read. Do you have an alternative way of asking it?

unknownprince I answered your question. I said the only way I can and will satisfy your superficial want for an non-yes or no question to be answered as yes or no, is no in the case that the question is "Can you prove there is no God", offered without any operational definitions. I don't expect you to have a more mature response, I am stating this for the benefit of others.

Feroza_Banu, why do you expect me to accept your opinion (that the Quran is something more than a book) as fact, for the sake of the discussion? Is that not dogma? It is a book, I read it, now I want to discuss it.

I want everyone to ask themselves if they would have such a reaction if I had wanted to discuss the Gita? Is this not dogma then, that because it happens to be the book you believe in, it should be treated differently? Is this about you, or is it about the Quran?

Are you afraid that the Quran is so fragile that it will break down through the discussion of laymen? I don't. Are you then afraid that your faith is so fragile that it may break down through a discussion? Or do you think I can pollute the Quran? Are there not verses that say I can not? Who is then dishonest?

Dervaish, first emotions must subside before we can discuss anything. Discussions are not made with emotions.

Oh and damn right I am talking down to some people now, everyone but a few (Dreamer, Dervaish, etc) have been doing nothing but talking down to me. Treating the word Atheist as though it were dirty. I am not one to be bullied. Tell those who take your side with hyperbole and condescension to back off so we can talk in peace.

I started the thread calmly, if I am agitated it is as a response to the condescension I have received.

[torkham]

I read the complete quran in arabic by the age of 9. i have recited it to the best of my ability as often as i could in my life to today, in that time I ocasionally read the dari and urdu translation underneath the arabic. as my english improved, i have started looking deeper into the quran using english.

sadly my dari/pashtu/urdu vocabulary is no longer as comprehensive as my english.


i have found the quran clear and guiding. where i did not understand the meanings of ayat, i use logic, context, history, unbiased common sense and of course dr naik to examine details I may have missed in order for me to reach MY CONCLUSIONS in MY MIND.

i have never required reading other books, like torah, injil et al to get better understanding. although I have read some segments of torah ingil zabur and more of sahih and bukhari. I have never found the need to justify the quran with science, the quran by it self is beyond all books and beyond reproach.

[Admin Khan]

Brother Pi,
Why don't you bring forward your questions so members can attempt to offer their perspective.

It's a fruitful discussion.

[3.14159265...]

I read the complete quran in arabic by the age of 9. i have recited it to the best of my ability as often as i could in my life to today, in that time I ocasionally read the dari and urdu translation underneath the arabic. as my english improved, i have started looking deeper into the quran using english.

sadly my dari/pashtu/urdu vocabulary is no longer as comprehensive as my english.


i have found the quran clear and guiding. where i did not understand the meanings of ayat, i use logic, context, history, unbiased common sense and of course dr naik to examine details I may have missed in order for me to reach MY CONCLUSIONS in MY MIND.

i have never required reading other books, like torah, injil et al to get better understanding. although I have read some segments of torah ingil zabur and more of sahih and bukhari. I have never found the need to justify the quran with science, the quran by it self is beyond all books and beyond reproach.

I quite like this view.

[khushal]

Mr Pi,
Unlike your username, you should be a little more rational here. Like I said before it takes more understanding than just reading it. For example When Khushal Khan Hatak said that he would rather seperate from his sword rather than separate pashtun and afghan. Now you can not know what this really means unless you know pashtun and afghan culture, you could try to interperate what he is trying to say but you would only be speculating.

Like Admin said, if you want to discuss a certain verse, lets discuss it otherwise I could just tell you, like your telling the other members, kindly go learn arabic.

[sahil112]

i have read the holy quran in english twice now

[kakargirl]

i'v read the quran translation a few times, one can only answer if a question is asked, if a question hasn't been asked ,how can one discuss anything.

[Wrayun]

I have read the translations, and am not very found of them. The true essence is lost in those translations, and I hate the inserts (in between). I tried to look for a translations without it, without any tasfir or additions, just actual transliteration of what is there word for word without someone putting something in between. Haven't come across any meaningful ones except the type used by Quran Only folks.

So what do you want to discuss?

[ScimitarXEdge]

I mean from cover to cover in a language you understand as you would any other book?

Would you like to discuss it?

yes, whenever you'd like to discuss it we can do so.

[Wrayun]

I just saw the thread, and raising my eyebrows at
the supercilious - SOUNDING way [perhaps not intended ]
in which Mr Pie
"INVITES" -??
Those who have not completely read the Holy Quran to
read the rest.

This sounds like the way a teacher or expert on holy scriptures
would speak to less informed lowlier individuals.

Could we have an explanation of THIS before going into
intricacies?

For, it hardly sounds like the congenial discussion he is making it sound.

I have a question for you, are you a Muslim? You never answered that, and it seems that you avoid to answer it. If you were you would have stated that you are, so I take it that you are not. That brings me to another thing, you seem to defend the religious motivated members here, and are quick to jump into discussions favoring certain perspectives i.e. Islamic/Muslim....why haven't you accepted Islam since you seem to agree with much of it, defend it, and find the need to protect those who proclaim to represent it?

I hope you don't take this personal.

[*Mahzala*]

I have no desire for mental gymnastics. I have no intention of arguing whether or not my way reading the Quran is better than the way you suggest.

If something is written on paper using language with reasonable length, I call it a book. I read things that are written. I then think about and discuss things which I read.

I read the Quran, I thought about it, now I want to discuss it. If you are one of those who prefers the Quran on a pedestal not to be touched by common men without layers of "education", then go ahead and discuss other writings written about the Quran, and do it in another thread.

Here I want to discuss the Quran. If you find that blasphemous then I don't care. I hope those of you who are in violent opposition of discussion of the Quran will find your way out of this thread so that those of us who want to discuss it may.

If you would like, of course you should stay and contribute but I am hoping I don't have to write all this again.

I have no intentions of underestimating anyone, however, I assume very few have read the whole Quran with translation, interpretation and commentary. Even for those who make it a daily practice to read it everyday, it is most often the Arabic, and if in a language one can understand, then I would say there are few who have gone through it cover to cover and are well versed in its contextual references. I take this post of yours to be a response to mine and so, I will take a step back and say, no, there is nothing wrong with a fruitful discussion on its content and context. Of course, deriving interpretations ourselves is what is discouraged, as I mentioned in my earlier post, there are certain guidelines one must adhere to when attempting to understand the Quran and contextual references. What I was getting at, what you failed to understand maybe, or what I failed to communicate, was that the Quran isn't a text that you take a verse, single it out and try to understand it. And that is where my argument of interpreting it comes in. I trust you understand.

Once again, I would appreciate if you provided the verse you referred to in your initial few posts.

[Alchemist]

regardless some of the divine message is still preserved... mentions of a prophecy in the old testement etc deutoronomy 18:18

Sure, you can say that it is "persevered" from your own vantage as a follower of Islam but not from a christian or jew's persective! For example, deutronomy 18:18 means one thing to you as a muslim but means something else to a christian and a jew...and since they know their book better than you, their argument will actually trump yours, because other verses in the bible will affirm their belief that Ismael's descendants are not considered "brethrens" of the Israelites...to them the "hagareites" and "ishmalietes" are considered as enemies of God, plasm 83:6 and Chron 5:10. So you see...it is futile to even try to say what is actually "preserved"...without actually knowing the Qur'an first.